How do we keep Social Conservatism (Fascism) out of Canada?

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Go ahead and find anything from Hitler and goebbles which suggested that they cared at all about which race was 'superior'. They simply didn't. This is a caricature of what they actually believed that was invented during denazification.

Wow, do you live in a dream world or not?

quote

Hitler's Racial Ideology: Content and Occult Sources

by Jackson Spielvogel and David Redles

In a 1931 interview with a Leipzig newspaper editor, Adolf Hitler made a passionate declaration of the true significance of his National Socialist movement:

The Frenchman Gobineau and the Englishman Chamberlain were inspired by our concept of a new order-a new order, I tell you, or if you prefer, an ideological glimpse into history in accordance with the basic principle of the blood. We do not judge by merely artistic or military standards or even by purely scientific ones. We judge by the spiritual energy which a people is capable of putting forth, which will enable it in ten years to recapture what it has lost in a thousand years of warfare. I intend to set up a thousand year Reich and anyone who supports me in battle is a fellow-fighter for a unique spiritual-I would almost say divine-creation. At the decisive moment the decisive factor is not the ratio of strength but the spiritual force employed. Betrayal of the nation is possible even when no crime has been committed, in other words when a historical mission has not been fulfilled.1

This statement by Hitler gives rise to several intriguing questions. What was the "basic principle of the blood" which inspired Hitler's "new order"? What did he mean by the "spiritual energy" of the people and how was it connected to their blood? Why did Hitler envision his movement as generating a "spiritual" and even "divine creation" that would fulfill a "historic mission"? What was the relationship between "the basic principle of the blood" and Hitler's fanatical hatred of Jews? And finally, what were the sources of these ideas, assuming of course that Hitler was influenced by the philosophies of others? Is it possible that occult or esoteric racial philosophy may, in fact, have been one of the major sources for Hitler's racial ideology? In this paper we shall attempt to provide some answers to these questions.

It is evident from Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches that he viewed racial conflict as the determining factor in all of human history. "The racial question gives the key not only to world history, but to all human culture."2 Race was not simply a political issue to be used to curry the favor of the masses, but the "granite foundation"3 of Hitler's ideology.

Hitler's racial ideology stemmed from what he called "the basic principle of the blood." This meant that the blood of every person and every race contained the soul of a person and likewise the soul of his race, the Volk. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4

Since the blood (soul) of the Aryans contained specific spiritual energies, the "cultural energies" or "racial primal elements,"5 as Hitler often called them, the Aryans supplied the culture that creates the beauty and dignity of higher humanity. In other words, all that man calls higher culture was ultimately the product of the spiritual and creative energies that exist in the blood of the Aryans. Hitler stated:   unquote

Annual 3 Chapter 9 (museumoftolerance.com)

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but the NSDAP never declared itself to be a race

and in fact, there was a pecking order

in that you did not have to be a pure Aryan simply to be a Nazi

you only had to pass a racial purity test to be a member of the SS

The subject of the Nazi belief in the superiority of the Aryan race is quite involved Doug.  

Check this out:

Hitler's Racial Ideology: Content and Occult Sources

by Jackson Spielvogel and David Redles

You can read the full article here:

Annual 3 Chapter 9 (museumoftolerance.com)

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

The subject of the Nazi belief in the superiority of the Aryan race is quite involved Doug.  

Check this out:

Hitler's Racial Ideology: Content and Occult Sources

by Jackson Spielvogel and David Redles

You can read the full article here:

Annual 3 Chapter 9 (museumoftolerance.com)

yes, I am aware of the Eastern European occultist origins of Hitlers ideology

but ultimately, Hitler was an opportunist

he cobbled together various Occultist sources from his youth,

assembling them into an ultimate conspiracy theory

but that is the evidence as to how it's not actually based on racial superiority, but rather mythology

it's Darwin & Nietzsche & Malthus & Marx, all assembled into a false idolatry, a satanic cult

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, CrazyCanuck89 said:

Social Conservatism is all about control, just like fascism.  It usually involves one race and or religion.  Hitler was very much a fascist, just like Mussolini.

Social conservatism is about values.  Some people have many of them and others don’t.  Some people want values for their kids and society; others are profligate and don’t care — well until they’re robbed or killed or mistreated. Hitler wasn’t religious. He was interested in the occult. The most prevalent fascism today is on the left, among stakeholder capitalists.

Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Mike Johnson, the most influential social conservative today. He's basically a decent normal guy.  He’s very tolerant too. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-johnson-speech-hudson-institute-gop-national-defense-russia-china-nato-b237609c

Edited July 10, 2024 by Zeitgeist

[Five of swords]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Mein Kampf says otherwise

Mein Kampf is a quite clearly an assertion of Nietzschean Darwinism as its defining paradigm

That is not at all the impression I got from it. Hitler certainly saw that the task ahead was monumental and dangerous and there would be a lot of glory involved. He certainly hoped Germans would be up to the task. But you might misunderstand what he actually wanted, which was just resources. Anyeay that whole thing wasn't even in mein kampf it wad in his unpublished 2nd book so I dunno where you got this.

[Five of swords]

29 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Wow, do you live in a dream world or not?

quote

Hitler's Racial Ideology: Content and Occult Sources

by Jackson Spielvogel and David Redles

In a 1931 interview with a Leipzig newspaper editor, Adolf Hitler made a passionate declaration of the true significance of his National Socialist movement:

The Frenchman Gobineau and the Englishman Chamberlain were inspired by our concept of a new order-a new order, I tell you, or if you prefer, an ideological glimpse into history in accordance with the basic principle of the blood. We do not judge by merely artistic or military standards or even by purely scientific ones. We judge by the spiritual energy which a people is capable of putting forth, which will enable it in ten years to recapture what it has lost in a thousand years of warfare. I intend to set up a thousand year Reich and anyone who supports me in battle is a fellow-fighter for a unique spiritual-I would almost say divine-creation. At the decisive moment the decisive factor is not the ratio of strength but the spiritual force employed. Betrayal of the nation is possible even when no crime has been committed, in other words when a historical mission has not been fulfilled.1

This statement by Hitler gives rise to several intriguing questions. What was the "basic principle of the blood" which inspired Hitler's "new order"? What did he mean by the "spiritual energy" of the people and how was it connected to their blood? Why did Hitler envision his movement as generating a "spiritual" and even "divine creation" that would fulfill a "historic mission"? What was the relationship between "the basic principle of the blood" and Hitler's fanatical hatred of Jews? And finally, what were the sources of these ideas, assuming of course that Hitler was influenced by the philosophies of others? Is it possible that occult or esoteric racial philosophy may, in fact, have been one of the major sources for Hitler's racial ideology? In this paper we shall attempt to provide some answers to these questions.

It is evident from Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches that he viewed racial conflict as the determining factor in all of human history. "The racial question gives the key not only to world history, but to all human culture."2 Race was not simply a political issue to be used to curry the favor of the masses, but the "granite foundation"3 of Hitler's ideology.

Hitler's racial ideology stemmed from what he called "the basic principle of the blood." This meant that the blood of every person and every race contained the soul of a person and likewise the soul of his race, the Volk. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4

Since the blood (soul) of the Aryans contained specific spiritual energies, the "cultural energies" or "racial primal elements,"5 as Hitler often called them, the Aryans supplied the culture that creates the beauty and dignity of higher humanity. In other words, all that man calls higher culture was ultimately the product of the spiritual and creative energies that exist in the blood of the Aryans. Hitler stated:   unquote

Annual 3 Chapter 9 (museumoftolerance.com)

So...how does this quote even support your claim? Did he suggest germans are superior?

[Five of swords]

20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

yes, I am aware of the Eastern European occultist origins of Hitlers ideology

but ultimately, Hitler was an opportunist

he cobbled together various Occultist sources from his youth,

assembling them into an ultimate conspiracy theory

but that is the evidence as to how it's not actually based on racial superiority, but rather mythology

it's Darwin & Nietzsche & Malthus & Marx, all assembled into a false idolatry, a satanic cult

You seem to be thinking about the thule society which hitler outlawed. There was nothing 'occult' about Hitler.

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

That is not at all the impression I got from it. Hitler certainly saw that the task ahead was monumental and dangerous and there would be a lot of glory involved. He certainly hoped Germans would be up to the task. But you might misunderstand what he actually wanted, which was just resources. Anyeay that whole thing wasn't even in mein kampf it wad in his unpublished 2nd book so I dunno where you got this.

Lebensraum was not about resources

Livingspace means what it says

the National Socialists aspired to found their own empire in the lands to the East

in the same way that the Americans took the North American continent

the principle resource was actually going to be slaves therein

19 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

So...how does this quote even support your claim? Did he suggest germans are superior?

Germans were not Aryans per se, in fact, in his defeat, Hitler actually condemned the Germans

Aryans were  a mythical race which had supposedly come to Europe from the Indian subcontinent

you will note that the Swastika is actually a Hindu symbol therein

Edited July 10, 2024 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

You seem to be thinking about the thule society which hitler outlawed. There was nothing 'occult' about Hitler.

you seem to be a desperate apologist for the National Socialist regime

 

 

[blackbird]

43 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

So...how does this quote even support your claim? Did he suggest germans are superior?

In effect, yes.  "Hitler's racial ideology stemmed from what he called "the basic principle of the blood." This meant that the blood of every person and every race contained the soul of a person and likewise the soul of his race, the Volk. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4"

 

Edited July 10, 2024 by blackbird

[Five of swords]

Just now, blackbird said:

In effect, yes.  "Hitler's racial ideology stemmed from what he called "the basic principle of the blood." This meant that the blood of every person and every race contained the soul of a person and likewise the soul of his race, the Volk. Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4"

 

 That isn't what Hitler said...that is your ridiculous interpretation if his world view. Again, I am asking you to actually quote Hitler. If someone else is telling you what they think Hitler thought, that means nothing.

[blackbird]

53 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

as an aside, note how Fascism & Nazism are not the same thing at all

Nazism is,  as you point out, the Occult

whereas Fascism is simply Romanism ; the Vatican and Roman Catholic Absolute Monarchy ascendant

hence why the Nazis and Fascists were in fact sworn enemies, not allies

"Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4"

[Five of swords]

28 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

you seem to be a desperate apologist for the National Socialist regime

 

 

By stating facts? Hitler opposed any and all forms of secret societies even if they seemed to be on his 'side'. He outlawed the thule society. That is just a fact. If that contradicts what you want to believe about Hitler then oh well.

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4"

Hitler was talking about himself in third person?

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

 That isn't what Hitler said...that is your ridiculous interpretation if his world view. Again, I am asking you to actually quote Hitler. If someone else is telling you what they think Hitler thought, that means nothing.

"It is evident from Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches that he viewed racial conflict as the determining factor in all of human history. "The racial question gives the key not only to world history, but to all human culture."2 Race was not simply a political issue to be used to curry the favor of the masses, but the "granite foundation"3 of Hitler's ideology."

This is the conclusion from Hitler's Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Five of swords said:

By stating facts? Hitler opposed any and all forms of secret societies even if they seemed to be on his 'side'. He outlawed the thule society. That is just a fact. If that contradicts what you want to believe about Hitler then oh well.

so you're not a Nazi, just a big fan of Adolf Hitler ?

[Five of swords]

40 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Lebensraum was not about resources

Livingspace means what it says

the National Socialists aspired to found their own empire in the lands to the East

in the same way that the Americans took the North American continent

the principle resource was actually going to be slaves therein

Germans were not Aryans per se, in fact, in his defeat, Hitler actually condemned the Germans

Aryans were  a mythical race which had supposedly come to Europe from the Indian subcontinent

you will note that the Swastika is actually a Hindu symbol therein

Hitler wasnever going to allow slaves to exist. In fact that is an absurd idea and totally antithetical to national socialism, which required a homogeneous population. The resources he wanted was oil and farmland. Not, as you suggested, some radical natural selection to prove german superiority.

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"Hitler believed that the Aryan race, to which all "true" Germans belonged, was the race whose blood (soul) was of the highest degree. God Himself had, in fact, created the Aryans as the most perfect men, both physically and spiritually.4"

True Scotsman fallacy

which Hitler admitted to, when he condemned the Germans for failing to be Aryan upon his defeat 

[Five of swords]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"It is evident from Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches that he viewed racial conflict as the determining factor in all of human history. "The racial question gives the key not only to world history, but to all human culture."2 Race was not simply a political issue to be used to curry the favor of the masses, but the "granite foundation"3 of Hitler's ideology."

This is the conclusion from Hitler's Mein Kampf and Hitler's speeches.

I would certainly agree that race was important to Hitler. That is also my impression from reading him. But you have lost the plot. This quote is 1) not from Hitler and 2) not about Germans being 'superior'.

Edited July 10, 2024 by Five of swords

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Hitler wasnever going to allow slaves to exist. In fact that is an absurd idea and totally antithetical to national socialism, which required a homogeneous population. The resources he wanted was oil and farmland. Not, as you suggested, some radical natural selection to prove german superiority.

as I say, you seem to be a comically absurd apologist for the Third Reich

[Five of swords]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

so you're not a Nazi, just a big fan of Adolf Hitler ?

Nobody is a nazi. That is just a pejorative slang that anglos used for national socialists.

 

Anyway your implication here is fascinating. Are you under the impression that anyone who can state hitler's ideas honestly would necessarily become a fan? Big if true, I guess.

 

But of course...whether or not Hitler outlawed the thule society does not depend on whether or not I personally am a fan of Hitler. Right? That is just an elementary logical fallacy. 

[Five of swords]

11 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

as I say, you seem to be a comically absurd apologist for the Third Reich

Lol...well...not everyone would consider that policy to be 'nice'. Some people would rather be slaves than deported or executed, I guess. But if knowing the real policies of Adolf Hitler makes you admire the guy then that is something for you to worry about, not me.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Hitler wasnever going to allow slaves to exist.

Wow. I'm not gonna get into all your other absurd musings, but how many people do you think died in forced-labour camps? 

[Five of swords]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

Wow. I'm not gonna get into all your other absurd musings, but how many people do you think died in forced-labour camps? 

Lol...do I need to point out that you cannot both have slaves and also kill them?

 

Clearly Hitler had no intention of allowing these people to remain in Germany as slaves. He deported many. And it was thr official policy to deport them all, when possible. Of course according to people who believe the holocaust, his ultimate goal became extermination. 

 

You cannot enslave people that you killed. Right?

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Lol...do I need to point out that you cannot both have slaves and also kill them?

Clearly Hitler had no intention of allowing these people to remain in Germany as slaves. He deported many. And it was thr official policy to deport them all, when possible. Of course according to people who believe the holocaust, his ultimate goal became extermination. 

You cannot enslave people that you killed. Right?

So much better...

[Dougie93]

42 minutes ago, Five of swords said:

Lol...well...not everyone would consider that policy to be 'nice'. Some people would rather be slaves than deported or executed, I guess. But if knowing the real policies of Adolf Hitler makes you admire the guy then that is something for you to worry about, not me.

I suppose Adolf Hitler could be given faint praise

for leading his followers into the greatest suicide mission in history

then cursing them all as being traitors upon their defeat

to wit, thanks for blowing yourselves up inside of twelve years,  ignominious Third Reich

Edited July 10, 2024 by Dougie93