British Columbia to recriminalize use of drugs in public spaces

[ExFlyer]

So...the take your drugs anywhere is a failed project? Wow, what a surprise!

"After weeks of troubling stories about problematic street drug use in hospitals, parks and at bus stops, the province of British Columbia announced plans to recriminalize the use of drugs in public places Friday — radically altering a pilot program aimed at addressing the toxic drug crisis."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/british-columbia-to-recriminalize-use-of-drugs-in-public-spaces/ar-AA1nJDEN?cvid=38402424eae74bcac3116dc184f079b5&ei=11

[herbie]

The real surprise is how many people had absolutely no clue how big the drug use issue was until the users flaunted themselves right in their face.

They tried to make laws just a few months ago and it got held up in court (which ppl seem to have already forgotten), so now they're pushing this one with federal approval.

Yes, the public outcry made them do it quickly. The ruling over the previous law would take over a year. Plus Eby also admits the public use ban should've been part of the original plan.

Now you can hate the NDP even more for admitting a f*ck up and not doubling down out of sheer obstinance.

BTW possession wasn't recriminalized, public use was, it is still legal to carry 2.5g and it's highly unlikely you'd be charged simply possessing drugs in a park. More likely they'd just seize it, same as pouring out your liquor bottle.

Edited April 27 by herbie

[CdnFox]

13 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So...the take your drugs anywhere is a failed project? Wow, what a surprise!

 

I was personally shocked. SHOCKED i say!

Edited April 28 by CdnFox

[DUI_Offender]

In fairness, people are doing hard drugs in literally every major Canadian city. I was at the Jets Whiteout Street Party in Winnipeg, and I walked past at least 3-4 meth heads doing the pipe in the open, in spite of a large Police presence, and over 20,000 people in the immediate vicinity.

people are going to ruin their lives, regardless of legality. I suggest the MAID program. 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

In fairness, people are doing hard drugs in literally every major Canadian city. I was at the Jets Whiteout Street Party in Winnipeg, and I walked past at least 3-4 meth heads doing the pipe in the open, in spite of a large Police presence, and over 20,000 people in the immediate vicinity.

people are going to ruin their lives, regardless of legality. I suggest the MAID program. 

Yeah but now they're doing them openly in the hospitals and the nurses aren't allowed to do anything.  IT got right out of control.

When it was illegal the cops turned a bit of a blind eye to it if nobody was bugging anyone else but everyone knew there was a line and if you crossed it you might get a free 'midnite tour of stanley park" and that tended to keep the problem from becoming a public threat. 

[DUI_Offender]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah but now they're doing them openly in the hospitals and the nurses aren't allowed to do anything.  IT got right out of control.

Maybe security should be allowed to restrain them to a bed, then have the nurse inject a sedative into their bodies. At that point, the surgeon should remove both of their arms, so they cannot do meth.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Maybe security should be allowed to restrain them to a bed, then have the nurse inject a sedative into their bodies. At that point, the surgeon should remove both of their arms, so they cannot do meth.

Why? It was legal.

[herbie]

Oh FFS you guys are cueless 1diots. They just took ateps to correct the problem and you're still making up imaginary visions of what the problem even was.

The druggies are returned to the bushes and back alleys where you won't see them and can go back to pretending the drug problem doesn't exist. Take it as a win... you didn't really give a shit anyway. Until it's a friend or relative that dies.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, herbie said:

Oh FFS you guys are cueless 1diots. They just took ateps to correct the problem and you're still making up imaginary visions of what the problem even was.

 

Typical leftie -  even as they are forced to fix a problem they're STILL denying it exists.

The leftist woke drug agenda has failed across the board and the ndp is in full retreat on it. And i see now that the provincial conservatives (whom even I would say is  a weak party) are polling higher than the ndp and stand a good chance of winning.

Quote

The druggies are returned to the bushes and back alleys where you won't see them and can go back to pretending the drug problem doesn't exist.

Ahhh no.  That's you.  We want them arrested and forced to take treatment successfully or remain in jail.  YOU are the ones who want to go back to ignoring it.

[impartialobserver]

in theory.. it sounds good to decriminalize drugs. If there is no black market then that takes the dealer out of the picture. Also, then the addict does not have the obstacles of being convicted and being ordered to pay fines and such. However, when this is attempted the results are not what theory dictates. The addicts that sought help before are the same that seek help after. Meaning that the legality of it does not change the person's motivation. 

[ExFlyer]

On 4/28/2024 at 3:02 PM, herbie said:

Oh FFS you guys are cueless 1diots. They just took ateps to correct the problem and you're still making up imaginary visions of what the problem even was.

The druggies are returned to the bushes and back alleys where you won't see them and can go back to pretending the drug problem doesn't exist. Take it as a win... you didn't really give a shit anyway. Until it's a friend or relative that dies.

Yes, they took steps to correct a problem. A problem that they caused.

Where they take it now a\makes it easier for police to enforce and perhaps incarcerate addicts. There was no consequences before.

Oh yes, we all gave a shit about the freedom given to addicts. We were all very upset but realized we, un-addicted, had no mre say.

So, we are not "clueless 1diots". We were the ones that said, wait for it... it will only get worse.... and it did and we cans say we told you so.

 

 

 

[Aristides]

On 4/27/2024 at 12:21 PM, herbie said:

The real surprise is how many people had absolutely no clue how big the drug use issue was until the users flaunted themselves right in their face.

They tried to make laws just a few months ago and it got held up in court (which ppl seem to have already forgotten), so now they're pushing this one with federal approval.

Yes, the public outcry made them do it quickly. The ruling over the previous law would take over a year. Plus Eby also admits the public use ban should've been part of the original plan.

Now you can hate the NDP even more for admitting a f*ck up and not doubling down out of sheer obstinance.

BTW possession wasn't recriminalized, public use was, it is still legal to carry 2.5g and it's highly unlikely you'd be charged simply possessing drugs in a park. More likely they'd just seize it, same as pouring out your liquor bottle.

If you have less than 2.5g the police can't seize it, they have to give it back. 

[herbie]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

So, we are not "clueless 1diots". We were the ones that said, wait for it... it will only get worse.... and it did and we cans say we told you so.

There is ZERO indication 'the problem' will get worse because of treating addiction as a health issue.
There is one hundred years of evidence that punishing users instead of addressing the underlying causes did.
So returning to a punishment model is the definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, which is one definition of insanity.

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, herbie said:

There is ZERO indication 'the problem' will get worse because of treating addiction as a health issue.
There is one hundred years of evidence that punishing users instead of addressing the underlying causes did.
So returning to a punishment model is the definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, which is one definition of insanity.

When I said "We were the ones that said, wait for it... it will only get worse..." it was about BC (and other provinces and cities) opening up drug use in public spaces and anywhere, including hospitals.... and it did, to the point they had to repeal the directive.

All along I have been in favour of treatment but we seemed to have fallen into the hole that it is OK and doing it safely anywhere and everywhere instead to treatment.

Maybe  enforcing treatment instead of just giving it lip service will be the answer.

Edited May 1 by ExFlyer

[herbie]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

If you have less than 2.5g the police can't seize it, they have to give it back. 

That is exactly what the RCMP said they will do in public places.

And if they do, who's gonna stop them? They seize liquor and pour it all the time.

[herbie]

27 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

When I said "We were the ones that said

I said that too. That issue has been addressed, not much point rehashing what was. I take issue at the Polievres yelping and demanding Toronto can't implement policies even though Feds will have addressed that particular issue, This part was a problem so the whole concept is no good.

[ExFlyer]

59 minutes ago, herbie said:

I said that too. That issue has been addressed, not much point rehashing what was. I take issue at the Polievres yelping and demanding Toronto can't implement policies even though Feds will have addressed that particular issue, This part was a problem so the whole concept is no good.

The issue has not been "rehashed" . The topic id =s BC's changing of policy.

Toronto? Is in Ontario last time I checked LOL. Topic is about BC provincial changes in BC.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

There is ZERO indication 'the problem' will get worse because of treating addiction as a health issue.

There's a tonne of it.  We've been doing that for a year now and everyone in the field is screaming to stop - the drugs are getting into the hands of kids, the death rate is getting worse if anything, the criminals are getting rich - it has utterly failed.

And decriminalizing it has proven to be a disaster as we see here

 

Quote

There is one hundred years of evidence that punishing users instead of addressing the underlying causes did.

Nope.  At best you can say it doesn't stop all addicts.  But as we've seen it does help keep the problem under control. It gets worse when we don't.

Frankly - i'd be ok with doing both.  Arrest them and lock them up and give them a choice - stay in jail for a few years or take a drug rehab program and pass it successfully (any failures and back to jail you go).  Then parole with testing to try to keep them on the wagon for  a year after.

There you go - medical treatment AND jailtime for the non compliant.    you were a vax mandate supporter right? You should be fine with compelled medical treatment  

[herbie]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Toronto? Is in Ontario last time I checked LOL. Topic is about BC provincial changes in BC.

Mentioned as they are considering similar policies and PP bellowed specifically against Ottawa approving it.

 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We've been doing that for a year now and everyone in the field is screaming to stop

Bullshit. Niehter the govt, the professionals involved or the RCMP are. They wanted tweaks, the usual loudmouths want drugs criminalized again. Because? Can they say even why?

 

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

lock them up and give them a choice - stay in jail for a few years or take a drug rehab program and pass it

Typical dinosaur response. You'd be unlucky as hell to get 'a few years' for dealing. And forced rehab, eh? You showed yourself as one of the very 1diots I keep pointing to, smashing your face into it didn't break down the wall in 100 years so your solution is that you're not smashing your face into it hard enough. Beat the crew harder until morale improves and all that.
But of course you can't understand simple analogy.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Bullshit. Niehter the govt, the professionals involved or the RCMP are. They wanted tweaks, the usual loudmouths want drugs criminalized again. Because? Can they say even why?

The cops absolutely are and they are very clear about it. It doesn't work. The drugs are flooding the streets, people are smoking crack on the public transit system etc,

https://www.cheknews.ca/b-c-police-chiefs-say-decriminalization-has-left-them-unable-to-respond-to-open-drug-use-1199879/

The cops are pointing out it's failed and causing major problems and that it can't continue. That's why the gov't is reversing the policy

But of course you have to lie about it and pretend it's going great

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Typical dinosaur response. You'd be unlucky as hell to get 'a few years' for dealing. And forced rehab, eh? You showed yourself as one of the very 1diots I keep pointing to, smashing your face into it didn't break down the wall in 100 years so your solution is that you're not smashing your face into it hard enough. Beat the crew harder until morale improves and all that.
But of course you can't understand simple analogy.

WAAAAAHHHH!!!!  CDNFOX IS RIGHT BUT IT MAKES ME ANGRY !!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

you're hilarious  

Hey - we tried it your way and we've got drugs flooding the schools, nurses complaining that they can't breast feed because they're exposted to crack pipe smoke all day, cops who say they're helpless in the face of the new laws and things have to change.

So lets try it my way. I realize this is a painful idea for you because looking at your responses you clearly do a lot of crack yourself.  But i bet it works better than your way

And your argument is stupid - 100 years of murder laws have not stopped murder but its still not a good idea to legalize it just because of that.

[ExFlyer]

14 hours ago, herbie said:

Mentioned as they are considering similar policies and PP bellowed specifically against Ottawa approving it.

 

Bullshit. Niehter the govt, the professionals involved or the RCMP are. They wanted tweaks, the usual loudmouths want drugs criminalized again. Because? Can they say even why?

 

Typical dinosaur response. You'd be unlucky as hell to get 'a few years' for dealing. And forced rehab, eh? You showed yourself as one of the very 1diots I keep pointing to, smashing your face into it didn't break down the wall in 100 years so your solution is that you're not smashing your face into it hard enough. Beat the crew harder until morale improves and all that.
But of course you can't understand simple analogy.

The Feds were not part of BC's plan and never discussed hard drugs.. PP is always "bellowing" not know what the issues are.

Not sure if you are a former junkie or have some in your family but surely you must realize the "new" rules/processes/procedures did not work. It only seemed to make the addiction problem get worse.

As for your statement about wanting "tweaks", I think you are wrong The government does not take such a dramatic an drastic change without the backing of all those organizations dealing with this problem. I am not reading or hearing any significant backlash against what the government is doing.

Your analogy is not simple, let alone valid for the situation.

Edited May 2 by ExFlyer

[Aristides]

19 hours ago, herbie said:

That is exactly what the RCMP said they will do in public places.

And if they do, who's gonna stop them? They seize liquor and pour it all the time.

Fentanyl is highly toxic, you just can't pour dangerous drugs out on the ground. 

[Aristides]

The first decriminalization of drugs was in Oregon. Even its biggest boosters now say it was a mistake and after three years of experience are abandoning the project and recriminalizing possession.

When BC announced they were going to decriminalize, Oregon officials who had previously supported decriminalization said don't do it. But as usual, the NDP didn't listen.

Edited May 2 by Aristides

[herbie]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Not sure if you are a former junkie or have some in your family but surely you must realize the "new" rules/processes/procedures did not work. It only seemed to make the addiction problem get worse.

That's where you're 100% incorrect.
Firstly the Feds did go along with BC, otherwise the RCMP would've had to continue arresting for possession.
Functionally the laws as they are federally over simple possession are as stupid and wasteful of police and courts as busting people for two joints was a decade ago. F*cking admit it. You don't want to double the cops, jails and court workers to collect $50 fines and 3 day jail sentences. Go after the dealers and importers. Decriminalizing possession of small amounts did not increase the number of users in barely one year no matter how much you'd like to believe it did. Look at actual stats.

I don't want to reply with a big essay, but FFS the problem is addiction. Addiction destroys what used to be called superego, these people will rip off Granies jewels to buy drugs, steal their best friend's car, rent their own girlfriend out. For more drugs. No damn law is gonna fix that.
So if you're simply unable or unwilling to see addiction as a health issue, then you are as big a problem as the addicts are for seeing them only as criminals.

As for you're other question, yes I do have LOTS of personal experience with this issue. I did all the shit there was in the 60s and 70s but do little of that now other than a beer when I go for fish & chips and a gummie when my arthritis acts up. Both I and my daughter realized after 21 you can't be good at computer programming, accounting or social interaction if you're buzzed outa your nut. F-I-L lost to alcohol, ex to alcohol & chemical dependency, friend since 8 yrs old blew his liver from booze and injection drugs, first girl I even crushed on OD'd on junk in 1969, couple school buddies wired on MMDA and coke, buddy's nephew & wife lost to fentanyl while their kids slept in the next room.
Saw the crackhead down the block chase someone down the street swinging an axe, his gf walk into the house and ask for drugs or money, she OD'd later and he's now locked up for murder. PLUS I know functional users on this very block who use coke, meth recreationally and are not addicts, they work raise families and hide in their car or shop to smoke up away from their kids & neighbours. There are 2 kinds of people.

So here's the kicker: my son was a junkie and did other shit.  25 years of 'helping' with work clothes, driving all the way to Vancouver to be with him court, getting calls from social workers only trying to dodge doing their jobs and sending him to me, out of their jurisdiction. I get a call one January from a junkie friend of his that he'd died of Covid before Christmas. Call the coroners office to see if it was true -yes he died. He'd removed my name as his contact and added his junkie friend. The Coroner had that file right there on his desk as it was under investigation - it wasn't Covid. He was incapacitated in the hospital for a stroke and died weeks later. Meth and fentanyl in his blood. Someone brought the drugs into the hospital, more than a YEAR before this decriminalization came into being.

So don't give me this BS that you're all more knowledgeable about the subject than my multiple decades of experience with it.
It's a sickness, and only ever was a crime cuz our great grandaddies succumbed to the populist rage of a century ago, not knowing any better

 

[ExFlyer]

33 minutes ago, herbie said:

That's where you're 100% incorrect.
Firstly the Feds did go along with BC, otherwise the RCMP would've had to continue arresting for possession.
Functionally the laws as they are federally over simple possession are as stupid and wasteful of police and courts as busting people for two joints was a decade ago. F*cking admit it. You don't want to double the cops, jails and court workers to collect $50 fines and 3 day jail sentences. Go after the dealers and importers. Decriminalizing possession of small amounts did not increase the number of users in barely one year no matter how much you'd like to believe it did. Look at actual stats.

I don't want to reply with a big essay, but FFS the problem is addiction. Addiction destroys what used to be called superego, these people will rip off Granies jewels to buy drugs, steal their best friend's car, rent their own girlfriend out. For more drugs. No damn law is gonna fix that.
So if you're simply unable or unwilling to see addiction as a health issue, then you are as big a problem as the addicts are for seeing them only as criminals.

As for you're other question, yes I do have LOTS of personal experience with this issue. I did all the shit there was in the 60s and 70s but do little of that now other than a beer when I go for fish & chips and a gummie when my arthritis acts up. Both I and my daughter realized after 21 you can't be good at computer programming, accounting or social interaction if you're buzzed outa your nut. F-I-L lost to alcohol, ex to alcohol & chemical dependency, friend since 8 yrs old blew his liver from booze and injection drugs, first girl I even crushed on OD'd on junk in 1969, couple school buddies wired on MMDA and coke, buddy's nephew & wife lost to fentanyl while their kids slept in the next room.
Saw the crackhead down the block chase someone down the street swinging an axe, his gf walk into the house and ask for drugs or money, she OD'd later and he's now locked up for murder. PLUS I know functional users on this very block who use coke, meth recreationally and are not addicts, they work raise families and hide in their car or shop to smoke up away from their kids & neighbours. There are 2 kinds of people.

So here's the kicker: my son was a junkie and did other shit.  25 years of 'helping' with work clothes, driving all the way to Vancouver to be with him court, getting calls from social workers only trying to dodge doing their jobs and sending him to me, out of their jurisdiction. I get a call one January from a junkie friend of his that he'd died of Covid before Christmas. Call the coroners office to see if it was true -yes he died. He'd removed my name as his contact and added his junkie friend. The Coroner had that file right there on his desk as it was under investigation - it wasn't Covid. He was incapacitated in the hospital for a stroke and died weeks later. Meth and fentanyl in his blood. Someone brought the drugs into the hospital, more than a YEAR before this decriminalization came into being.

So don't give me this BS that you're all more knowledgeable about the subject than my multiple decades of experience with it.
It's a sickness, and only ever was a crime cuz our great grandaddies succumbed to the populist rage of a century ago, not knowing any better

 

Don't need to be lectured.

Fact is, whatever BC did was an epic fail and they are correcting it. Good on them.

Sorry for your experience with your son but, perhaps you did not want the hard approach, incarcerate till cured? Sounds like you were an enabler? I am very sorry that you lost him.

Don't be an a$$, I never once said I am more knowledgeable than anyone, let alone you.

If it is a "sickness" then it needs to be healed, not encouraged and without consequence.