Muslim Rage Over Cartoon

[Insom Elvis]

I was pretty pissed off the first time I saw someone mocking Jesus Christ, and the second time, probably up till now I hate to see that insensitivity and disregard for my belief. But I have full faith in my God, not that I think he will call on lightening to strike them down at any moment, rather that he will allow them to mock him as much as they like. This is how a peaceful religion operates, to strike against any who oppose your beliefs is to attempt to take a persons free will away. You can't make the world a civilization of zombies who love everything you do and hate everything you hate so why throw stones and shoot at people and burn flags? Someone might draw nasty cartoons about Jesus for 80 years before they die of natural causes, I feel bad for them when they hit that crossroads start the journey to an eternity in a lake of fire, but I can set a much better example by not trying to force them to respect my religion, and just being a good example of what I believe in. This should ovverride anything that has been said or done to piss off the muslims, but somehow they feel differently.

[Durgan]

The cartoons published were innocuous. Da new Canadian foreign minister McKay is spouting the wimpy Canadian political correct line. Nothing happens in a tolalitarian Muslin country without the sanction of the authorities.

The cartoons are all over the internet and these are not the cartoons that all hell is being raised about. Some Muslim Scholar ( a Lebanese Danish Citizen) took far worse cartoons in a scrapbook to Lebanon to the religious leaders, which caused the ruckus. The pot was stirred up by the leaders of Muslim countries. Some Western countries are panting like dogs seeking a bone to placate these people. Even the Moslim countries who started the ruckus are trying to put a cap on the demonstrations, after all it might lead to overthrow of some of these totalarian regimes. The genie out of the bottle is hard to get back in.

Apparently the subject cartoons were really offensive in the worst way, and the religious leaders are using it to stir up anger against the Western Nations. These really offensive cartoons were not even published anywhere on the internet. Westerners are seeing something else in the published cartoons that is simply not there.

The internet published cartoons were pithy and too the point about the so called terrorists blowing up innocents and the supposed claim by some radicals that the martyrs will have many delights in their heaven. This heaven bit is well documented, and is being preached by some in the radical Muslim community.

The newspapers can keep their politically correct stance and act like responsible citizens, but the internet is two steps ahead of them. The Muslims creating the fuss have not even seen the real sexual with animal offending cartoons. The West is acting like idiots in my view.

Lampooning religion is and always has been a norm in our society. The internet is full of cartoons about the Pope and the diddling priests, and others. Some are quite funny and express a view held by many religious or not.

Here are some URL's to cartoons. Like most cartoons they tickle people in differenct ways. Usually one looks and passes on. Offended my ass.

http://resaggie.notlong.com

http://larviers.notlong.com

http://ashbalim.notlong.com

http://ashbalim1.notlong.com

Durgan.

[Durgan]

Canada doesn't get its manual worker immigrants (slaves) from this Muslim group. Canada uses the Caribbean for its immigrant labourers, mostly Jamaica and Mexico. They are too weak to make waves. Apparently this pool is too far away for Europe to utilize.

Durgan.

"There never was a man as great as the average dog believes his master to be." Bob Edwards,1917.

This is the URL to a fair analysis of how Muslims prerceive themselves in Canada, the land of the free.

http://zeuxinta.notlong.com

Why the global rage hasn't engulfed Canada

Multiculturalism and media likely muted protests

MICHAEL VALPY

Why haven't Muslims in Canada taken to the streets in large numbers to protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed? It's not because everyone in Canada is so nice to each other, say Canadian Muslim leaders and Islamic scholars. It's because Canada's multiculturalism is complex.

They say Muslim immigration into Canada has been different. So has Muslim integration into Canadian society. And so has the political action of Canadian Muslim organizations around the highly sensitive issue of Islamic religious fundamentalism.

The difference is illustrated by events in France in 2004 and Canada in 2005, said Tarek Fatah, a leader of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

In France, few if any representative voices within the French Muslim community were heard in the news media speaking in favour of a law banning conspicuous religious symbols, such as the traditional Muslim head scarf, in public schools.

This was the case even though a significant percentage of French Muslims had no problem accepting the law within the cultural context of French secular society.

The powerful Muslim opposition that was heard, Mr. Fatah said, came from "the mosque structure" but "the mobilization of moderate Muslim voices never happened."

In contrast, in Canada in 2005, the news media pointedly reported that the most vociferous opposition to an Ontario law permitting Islamic religious tribunals to arbitrate family and marital disputes came from Muslim organizations themselves.

In Mr. Fatah's view, the mainstream Muslim community in Canada has recognized the need to take what he calls "ownership of the word Muslim." It has become actively involved in Canadian political life and not marginalized as is the case in many Western countries.

"It's a shift, for Canadian Muslims, that has not happened anywhere else."

Mohamed Elmasry, president of the Canadian Islamic Congress, said violent demonstrations simply aren't a fit with the Canadian Muslim community -- which, because of Canada's immigration requirements, he said, is the most highly educated Muslim community in the world.

"They would find legal and peaceful means of protest far more productive," said the imam and professor at the University of Waterloo. "With demonstrations, you cannot have full control over who does what."

His organization, the largest Muslim umbrella group in Canada, has actively discouraged demonstrations over the cartoons and has spoken publicly against the violent protests -- as has the Muslim Canadian Congress.

Earle Waugh, a University of Alberta Islamic scholar, said most Muslim immigrants to Canada do not feel sidelined, a factor significantly fuelling the protests in European countries.

"There is no sympathy within the Canadian Muslim community for a radical approach," he said. "No sympathy for the fundamentalists."

Canada has had no legacy of Muslim colonies like that of the British and French, and no history of migrant Muslim guest workers like that of Germany.

[YankAbroad]

Canada also has Irshad Manji, a rather powerful voice against Islamic extremism.

She's now Canada's best selling author, internationally.

[scribblet]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4700414.stm Sweden has closed down a website allready, is this the beginning of the end of freedom of speech ?

As Ezra Levant in the N.P. says:

"Respect for cultural diversity and freedom of religion is a fundamental principle in Canada," continues the soliloquy. But freedom of Canadians to practise Islam is not the same as the power to force non-Muslims to obey Islamic rules, such as prohibiting depictions of Muhammad. "Freedom of the press and other media of communication" is in the Charter, too; "respect for cultural diversity" isn't -- no one has a constitutional right to have their own world view protected from criticism. Of course, Muslim rioters don't want diversity of cultures. They want only one -- Sharia law, whereby cartoons of Muhammad are banned.

[Durgan]

Canada also has Irshad Manji, a rather powerful voice against Islamic extremism.

She's now Canada's best selling author, internationally.

A most interesting post. I never heard of this remarkable woman. Here is the URL to her information. It is pretty hard to dispute her credentials.

.

http://budzhees.notlong.com

Durgan.

[geoffrey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4700414.stm Sweden has closed down a website allready, is this the beginning of the end of freedom of speech ?

As Ezra Levant in the N.P. says:

"Respect for cultural diversity and freedom of religion is a fundamental principle in Canada," continues the soliloquy. But freedom of Canadians to practise Islam is not the same as the power to force non-Muslims to obey Islamic rules, such as prohibiting depictions of Muhammad. "Freedom of the press and other media of communication" is in the Charter, too; "respect for cultural diversity" isn't -- no one has a constitutional right to have their own world view protected from criticism. Of course, Muslim rioters don't want diversity of cultures. They want only one -- Sharia law, whereby cartoons of Muhammad are banned.

Do you subscribe to the Standard scriblett? It's a great piece of work by Ezra and the team, I highly recommend it...

Anyways, he's right on the money with this one. Muslims don't think we should have the right to portray their prophet at all. But honestly, I don't believe in their prophet, so why should I censor myself in describing them.

I respect their ability to practice their religion, in peace, out of my face. But when they state that I should follow their religion or I'm an infidel that needs to be killed/beheaded/sent to Allah/whatever, then I draw the line.

[Durgan]

This is an article by one who was there.

Durgan.

http://duxedlet.notlong.com

We were brought up to hate - and we do

By Nonie Darwish

(Filed: 12/02/2006)

The controversy regarding the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed completely misses the point. Of course, the cartoons are offensive to Muslims, but newspaper cartoons do not warrant the burning of buildings and the killing of innocent people. The cartoons did not cause the disease of hate that we are seeing in the Muslim world on our television screens at night - they are only a symptom of a far greater disease.

I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and in the Gaza Strip. In the 1950s, my father was sent by Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel Nasser, to head the Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza and the Sinai where he founded the Palestinian Fedayeen, or "armed resistance". They made cross-border attacks into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and wounding more than 900 others.

My father was killed as a result of the Fedayeen operations when I was eight years old. He was hailed by Nasser as a national hero and was considered a shaheed, or martyr. In his speech announcing the nationalisation of the Suez Canal, Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would take revenge for my father's death. My siblings and I were asked by Nasser: "Which one of you will avenge your father's death by killing Jews?" We looked at each other speechless, unable to answer.

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At school we sang songs with verses calling Jews "dogs" (in Arab culture, dogs are considered unclean).

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I was told: "Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do will get no mercy in hell." As a young woman, I visited a Christian friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the mosque. They said: "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with them." We heard worshippers respond "Amen".

My friend looked scared; I was ashamed. That was when I first realised that something was very wrong in the way my religion was taught and practised. Sadly, the way I was raised was not unique. Hundreds of millions of other Muslims also have been raised with the same hatred of the West and Israel as a way to distract from the failings of their leaders. Things have not changed since I was a little girl in the 1950s.

Palestinian television extols terrorists, and textbooks still deny the existence of Israel. More than 300 Palestinians schools are named after shaheeds, including my father. Roads in both Egypt and Gaza still bear his name - as they do of other "martyrs". What sort of message does that send about the role of terrorists? That they are heroes. Leaders who signed peace treaties, such as President Anwar Sadat, have been assassinated. Today, the Islamo-fascist president of Iran uses nuclear dreams, Holocaust denials and threats to "wipe Israel off the map" as a way to maintain control of his divided country.

Indeed, with Denmark set to assume the rotating presidency of the UN Security Council, the flames of the cartoon controversy have been fanned by Iran and Syria. This is critical since the International Atomic Energy Agency is expected to refer Iran to the Security Council and demand sanctions. At the same time, Syria is under scrutiny for its actions in Lebanon. Both Iran and Syria cynically want to embarrass the Danes to achieve their dangerous goals.

But the rallies and riots come from a public ripe with rage. From my childhood in Gaza until today, blaming Israel and the West has been an industry in the Muslim world. Whenever peace seemed attainable, Palestinian leaders found groups who would do everything to sabotage it. They allowed their people to be used as the front line of Arab jihad. Dictators in countries surrounding the Palestinians were only too happy to exploit the Palestinians as a diversion from problems in their own backyards. The only voice outside of government control in these areas has been the mosques, and these places of worship have been filled with talk of jihad.

Is it any surprise that after decades of indoctrination in a culture of hate, that people actually do hate? Arab society has created a system of relying on fear of a common enemy. It's a system that has brought them much-needed unity, cohesion and compliance in a region ravaged by tribal feuds, instability, violence, and selfish corruption. So Arab leaders blame Jews and Christians rather than provide good schools, roads, hospitals, housing, jobs, or hope to their people.

For 30 years I lived inside this war zone of oppressive dictatorships and police states. Citizens competed to appease and glorify their dictators, but they looked the other way when Muslims tortured and terrorised other Muslims. I witnessed honour killings of girls, oppression of women, female genital mutilation, polygamy and its devastating effect on family relations. All of this is destroying the Muslim faith from within.

It's time for Arabs and Muslims to stand up for their families. We must stop allowing our leaders to use the West and Israel as an excuse to distract from their own failed leadership and their citizens' lack of freedoms. It's time to stop allowing Arab leaders to complain about cartoons while turning a blind eye to people who defame Islam by holding Korans in one hand while murdering innocent people with the other.

Muslims need jobs - not jihad. Apologies about cartoons will not solve the problems. What is needed is hope and not hate. Unless we recognise that the culture of hate is the true root of the riots surrounding this cartoon controversy, this violent overreaction will only be the start of a clash of civilis-ations that the world cannot bear.

• Nonie Darwish is a freelance writer and public speaker.

[jbg]

A Michigan Professor.... (source, an uncopyrighted e-mail). I am posting this despite my great admiration for Islam and Arabic culture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association.

The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were 'hate speech'

============

Enter Professor Wichman.

==========================================

In his e-mail, he said the following:

===============================

Dear Moslem Association,

As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called 'whores' in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris, France.

This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile 'protests.'

If you do not like the values of the West - see the 1st Amendment - you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.

Cordially,

I. S. Wichman

Professor of Mechanical Engineering

=============================

As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't like this too well. They're demanding that Wichman be reprimanded and the university impose mandatory diversity training for faculty and mandate a seminar on hate and discrimination for all freshmen.

Now the local chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion.

==========

For its part, the university is standing its ground in support of Professor Wichman, saying the e-mail was private, and they don't intend to publicly condemn his remarks.

============================================================

[Sir Bandelot]

Wichman entirely missed the point with his divisive comments.

[Guest American Woman]

A Michigan Professor.... (source, an uncopyrighted e-mail). I am posting this despite my great admiration for Islam and Arabic culture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indrek Wichman.

The story took place in 2006. Rather old news.

Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association.

Wichman didn't intentionally send the email to the Muslim Student Association; he thought he was sending a private email to just one student, and he's expressed regrets:

Wichman told the Detroit News the letter had been intended for a one particular person, not the entirety of the Muslim Students' Association; he had believed the e-mail address he used was that one student's inbox. However, students who lead the association said the e-mail address was part of the group's official Web site.

The professor expressed in interviews that he had regrets about the e-mail: "I used strong language in a private communication that I would certainly not have used if this communication would have gone public. ... For the record, I thought it was a private communication and it was written in haste. I think a very minor thing has been blown completely out of proportion. I wrote it in 60 seconds. It was not like I sat and pondered over this thing for days. It was like you talking one night to your wife or your kids."

link

Edited October 4, 2009 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Wichman entirely missed the point with his divisive comments.

No, Whichman not only focused on the point, but utterly destroyed it with speech in kind. Bravo!

[jbg]

Wichman didn't intentionally send the email to the Muslim Student Association; he thought he was sending a private email to just one student, and he's expressed regrets:

Wichman told the Detroit News the letter had been intended for a one particular person, not the entirety of the Muslim Students' Association; he had believed the e-mail address he used was that one student's inbox. However, students who lead the association said the e-mail address was part of the group's official Web site.

The professor expressed in interviews that he had regrets about the e-mail: "I used strong language in a private communication that I would certainly not have used if this communication would have gone public. ... For the record, I thought it was a private communication and it was written in haste. I think a very minor thing has been blown completely out of proportion. I wrote it in 60 seconds. It was not like I sat and pondered over this thing for days. It was like you talking one night to your wife or your kids."

link

How did you get the Snopes text to copy? Sometimes you amaze me.

[jbg]

Wichman entirely missed the point with his divisive comments.

No.

He gets it. What's wrong is not the exercise of free speech/cartooning. It's violence.

[Guest American Woman]

How did you get the Snopes text to copy?

I didn't copy it directly from Snopes. I clicked on "select all," c&p'd it all to WordPad, and then copied the section I wanted to post from that.

[Sir Bandelot]

What's wrong is not the exercise of free speech/cartooning. It's violence.

Of course that is wrong, that almost goes without saying. But it's wrong to apply this criticism to muslims en masse, when there are millions who are just as appalled by the violence as anyone else. And that is what I keep trying to tell people, somewhat akin to criticizing christianity for the crusades. It's not the spirit of the religion, that was hijacked by people who use its name as a cover for their ambitions.

Or, that a group of Jews is controlling the whole economy of the world, therefore all Jews are evil and must be eliminated. So lets paint a graffiti on the walls of the synagogue. Same difference?

Edited October 5, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[jbg]

I didn't copy it directly from Snopes. I clicked on "select all," c&p'd it all to WordPad, and then copied the section I wanted to post from that.

Thanks. I'll try it.

[kimmy]

Of course that is wrong, that almost goes without saying. But it's wrong to apply this criticism to muslims en masse, when there are millions who are just as appalled by the violence as anyone else.

I think the criticism in the professor's letter was directed only at Muslims who oppose free speech.

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

I think the criticism in the professor's letter was directed only at Muslims who oppose free speech.

Yes, but ironically, his critics commit the very same generalization that he is accused of.

I can't wait to see Mohammed on Cartoon Network.

[Mr.Canada]

These people need to learn to take a joke, seriously lighten up. The Muslim religion happens to be the same religion as many of todays most prolific terrorists. We happen to be at war with terror. Big Deal.

And the Muslim reaction is? Threatening to kill everyone who publishes cartoons like this...certainly not doing much to better their image of a peaceful religion are they?

No one seems to mind when Christianity is shed in an unfavorable light which happens all the time.

[Sir Bandelot]

If these criticisms are levelled at terrorists only, they do not need to include insults to Islam itself. But in answer to the apologists of people like Wichman, I will let Mr. Canada speak for me on the general reaction of the public towards these kind of media messages.

The Muslim religion happens to be the same religion as many of todays most prolific terrorists. We happen to be at war with terror.

And the Muslim reaction is? Threatening to kill everyone who publishes cartoons like this...certainly not doing much to better their image of a peaceful religion are they?

[Guest American Woman]

As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't like this too well. They're demanding that Wichman be reprimanded and the university impose mandatory diversity training for faculty and mandate a seminar on hate and discrimination for all freshmen.

Now the local chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion.

==========

For its part, the university is standing its ground in support of Professor Wichman, saying the e-mail was private, and they don't intend to publicly condemn his remarks.

============================================================

Six months later Michigan State University, after lengthy negotiations with the Muslim Students Association and CAIR, announced that it would offer non-mandatory diversity training – including an Islamic awareness workshop facilitated by MSA-MSU and funded by the University – for its faculty and student body. Said Paulette Granberry Russell, Director of MSU’s Office for Affirmative Action Compliance and Monitoring: “We’re working with the MSA to identify the things that they want to discuss. Then we’re going to use those ideas as a basis for developing educational programs.

link

[jbg]

Six months later Michigan State University, after lengthy negotiations with the Muslim Students Association and CAIR, announced that it would offer non-mandatory diversity training – including an Islamic awareness workshop facilitated by MSA-MSU and funded by the University – for its faculty and student body. Said Paulette Granberry Russell, Director of MSU’s Office for Affirmative Action Compliance and Monitoring: “We’re working with the MSA to identify the things that they want to discuss. Then we’re going to use those ideas as a basis for developing educational programs.

link

I know you're just quoting so I don't hold you responsible.

My reaction to that story is to question how many Muslims attend "non-mandatory" Christian or Jewish awareness programs or even if such programs exist. More one way street; we're urged to understand Islam, they aren't urged to understand us.

[bush_cheney2004]

If these criticisms are levelled at terrorists only, they do not need to include insults to Islam itself. But in answer to the apologists of people like Wichman, I will let Mr. Canada speak for me on the general reaction of the public towards these kind of media messages.

But even if insults "to Islam itself" was the intention and purpose, that's OK too, if only to infect and spread a free speech virus.

Edited October 6, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

No one seems to mind when Christianity is shed in an unfavorable light which happens all the time.

Wow, Mr. Canada is wrong again.

Sensation was an exhibition of Young British Artists which first took place 18 September – 28 December 1997 at the Royal Academy of Art in London and later toured to Berlin and New York, but was rejected by Australia.

The show generated controversy in London and New York due to the inclusion of images of Myra Hindley and the Virgin Mary.

...

New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, who had seen the work in the catalogue but not in the show, called it "sick stuff" and threatened to withdraw the annual $7 million City Hall grant from the Brooklyn Museum hosting the show, because "You don't have a right to government subsidy for desecrating somebody else's religion."[6] Cardinal John O'Connor, the Archbishop of New York, said, "one must ask if it is an attack on religion itself," and the president of America's biggest group of Orthodox Jews, Mandell Ganchrow, called it "deeply offensive".[8] William A. Donohue, President of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, said the work "induces revulsion".[6] Giuliani started a lawsuit to evict the museum, and Arnold Lehman, the museum director, filed a federal lawsuit against Giuliani for a breach of the First Amendment.[8]

Wikipedia