Do we live in a Socialist state or a free enterprise democracy?

[blackbird]

"

OTTAWA — As members of Parliament accuse Bell Canada of corporate greed, the head of the company is defending its decision to cut thousands of jobs, citing a shift in Canadians' viewing habits away from traditional TV.

Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats grilled CEO Mirko Bibic during often combative exchanges at a meeting of the House of Commons heritage committee on Thursday afternoon.

Parliamentarians had ordered him to appear and answer for the cuts, which affect nine per cent of BCE Inc.'s workforce. 

Several MPs flung colourfully worded accusations at Bibic, including NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh, who appeared briefly to scold the CEO for "choosing greed" over giving consumers "a break" on cellphone fees. 

Bibic defended his company, blaming factors like productivity, inflation and delays in the implementation of the federal Online Streaming Act — a new law meant to level the playing field between traditional broadcasters and streaming companies, under which Bell is benefiting from significant regulatory relief.

He told MPs that the media ecosystem in Canada "is in crisis."

"The industry is in flux due to technological disruption, changing viewer habits, shifting advertiser demand and vigorous competition from foreign web giants who are not subject to the same costly regulations as Canadian broadcasters," Bibic said. "

Bell Canada CEO Mirko Bibic defends job cuts in Commons committee testimony (msn.com)

It seems strange, in a free enterprise system, to drag CEOs of large corporations before members of Parliament and be grilling and rebuking them for the decisions they make on the prices they charge or the number of people they lay off as business factors change.

I would ask do these members of Parliament believe we now live in some kind of Socialist or Marxist country whereby the MPs and government dictate to companies how they are to operate their businesses?  Herein lies the difference between Socialism and Free Enterprise.

A Socialist or Marxist system owns and runs everything.  There is no free enterprise or right to determine how a business is run.  Big brother does it all.  The people have to accept the consequences as it was in the Soviet Union after the Communist revolution.  There were massive shortages of goods and services.  Government ran everything.  Is this the direction Canada is heading.  Does anyone not see how we are heading in that direction now?  Freedom has a price.  Not everything is perfect in a imperfect world.  But free enterprise has made the west the most prosperous nations on earth.  We need to stand up for freedom and reject authoritarianism, Socialism, and Marxism.

 

[ExFlyer]

50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"

OTTAWA — As members of Parliament accuse Bell Canada of corporate greed, the head of the company is defending its decision to cut thousands of jobs, citing a shift in Canadians' viewing habits away from traditional TV.

Liberals, Conservatives and New Democrats grilled CEO Mirko Bibic during often combative exchanges at a meeting of the House of Commons heritage committee on Thursday afternoon.

Parliamentarians had ordered him to appear and answer for the cuts, which affect nine per cent of BCE Inc.'s workforce. 

Several MPs flung colourfully worded accusations at Bibic, including NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh, who appeared briefly to scold the CEO for "choosing greed" over giving consumers "a break" on cellphone fees. 

Bibic defended his company, blaming factors like productivity, inflation and delays in the implementation of the federal Online Streaming Act — a new law meant to level the playing field between traditional broadcasters and streaming companies, under which Bell is benefiting from significant regulatory relief.

He told MPs that the media ecosystem in Canada "is in crisis."

"The industry is in flux due to technological disruption, changing viewer habits, shifting advertiser demand and vigorous competition from foreign web giants who are not subject to the same costly regulations as Canadian broadcasters," Bibic said. "

Bell Canada CEO Mirko Bibic defends job cuts in Commons committee testimony (msn.com)

It seems strange, in a free enterprise system, to drag CEOs of large corporations before members of Parliament and be grilling and rebuking them for the decisions they make on the prices they charge or the number of people they lay off as business factors change.

I would ask do these members of Parliament believe we now live in some kind of Socialist or Marxist country whereby the MPs and government dictate to companies how they are to operate their businesses?  Herein lies the difference between Socialism and Free Enterprise.

A Socialist or Marxist system owns and runs everything.  There is no free enterprise or right to determine how a business is run.  Big brother does it all.  The people have to accept the consequences as it was in the Soviet Union after the Communist revolution.  There were massive shortages of goods and services.  Government ran everything.  Is this the direction Canada is heading.  Does anyone not see how we are heading in that direction now?  Freedom has a price.  Not everything is perfect in a imperfect world.  But free enterprise has made the west the most prosperous nations on earth.  We need to stand up for freedom and reject authoritarianism, Socialism, and Marxism.

 

Parliament has very right to "grill" the CEO's

Besides, BCE gets hundreds of millions form Governmental so the government has every right to ask why they lay off thousands of people and increase prices and still accept lots of money from them. they needed to explain themselves and their actions. Laying off people, accepting government money and giving shareholders profit money.

You didn't fly off the handle when the CEO's of grocery chains were called before parliament.

That has nothing to do with socialism or Marxism. It has everything to do with what are you doing with all the money we gave you.

Your single minded obsession with socialism and marxism prevents you from understanding all governments are supposed to give its citizens what they want.

Edited April 12 by ExFlyer

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Parliament has very right to "grill" the CEO's

No, they have no right to drag CEOs before Parliament and grill and insult them.

They broke no law and are simply operating legally within a free enterprise system.

It seems many MPs, and people like yourself forgot all that and think because some companies accepted some grants, they are now beholden to and under the control of left wing Socialist politicians and government.  These companies broke no laws.  They are still operating legally within the free enterprise system.

It is unfortunate that some people sometimes lose their jobs when a company has to lay people off, but that is the price a nation has to pay to have freedom and overall prosperity.  It is still far superior to Socialism and government control.  

Not all businesses are successful either.  A certain percentage will go bankrupt and have to close.  That is part of the freedom of being able to start and run your own business.  It is the same with big companies.  They are not always able to keep the company with the same number of employees or they will go bankrupt.  They must make business decisions because the there are many factors that change over time that affects their profit.  Today, we are living in the age of the internet and internet media is increasing.  Traditional old media companies cannot compete with that in the same way and must change in order to survive. That is how free enterprise works. 

Socialism is not the answer either because governments cannot run businesses as efficiently as private investors and entrepreneurs who put their personal finances and everything they have on the line to make it a success.  Governments are inefficient, wasteful, and don't have the same motivation to succeed as private enterprise.  So-called democratic Socialism is a failure too because politicians cannot successfully run government and corporations at the same time.  There are conflicts of interest.  They are under pressure from demands for money and support from all sectors and services and there just is not enough money to go around.  We see that happening with the public health care system that is failing in many ways.  They also end up with bloated inefficient bureaucracies that waste vast sums of taxpayer money.

Dragging CEOs into Parliament to grill and insult them is a direct intervention in how private enterprise works. That is the beginning of Socialist control.

If governments are giving them grants, that does not guarantee that a company will not need to make changes and lay people off as circumstances change.  Giving them grants is government's choice.  It does not mean companies lose their rights to run the company in the best way they see to be successful.  The company does not exist for the purpose of providing jobs to everyone at any cost or at the cost of going bankrupt.  That is not how free enterprise operates.  We are supposed to still live in a free enterprise system.

 

Edited April 12 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, they have no right to drag CEOs before Parliament and grill and insult them.

They broke no law and are simply operating legally within a free enterprise system.

It seems many MPs, and people like yourself forgot all that and think because some companies accepted some grants, they are now beholden to and under the control of left wing Socialist politicians and government.  These companies broke no laws.  They are still operating legally within the free enterprise system.

It is unfortunate that some people sometimes lose their jobs when a company has to lay people off, but that is the price a nation has to pay to have freedom and overall prosperity.  It is still far superior to Socialism and government control.  

Not all businesses are successful either.  A certain percentage will go bankrupt and have a to close.  That is part of the freedom of being able to start and run your own business.  It is the same with big companies.  They are not always able to keep the company with the same number of employees or they will go bankrupt.  They must make business decisions because the there are many factors that change over time that affects their profit.  That is how free enterprise works. 

Socialism is not the answer either because governments cannot run businesses as efficiently as private investors and entrepreneurs who put their personal finances and everything they have on the line to make it a success.  Government are inefficient, wasteful, and don't have the same motivation to succeed as private enterprise.  So-called democratic Socialism is a failure too because politicians cannot successfully run government and corporations at the same time.  There are conflicts of interest.  They are under pressure from demands for money and support from all sectors and services and there just is not enough money to go around.  They also end up with bloated inefficient bureaucracies that waste vast sums of taxpayer money.

Dragging CEOs into Parliament to grill and insult them is a direct intervention in how private enterprise.  That is now how private enterprise works.  That is the beginning of Socialist control.

If governments are giving them grants, that is not the company's fault.  That is government's choice.  It does not mean they lose their rights to run the company in the best way they see to be successful.  The company does not exist for the purpose of providing jobs to everyone at any cost or at the cost of going broke.  That is not how free enterprise operates.  We are supposed to still live in a free enterprise system.

 

Here is the deal, if you take hundreds of millions of dollars from government, then yes, you are beholding to government. Especially if you lay off thousand of people after you take government money.

I remember you being all gung ho when grocery store CEO's got hauled before the carpet and they got no government money. So, it is OK for some but not for others?? 

Every government that Canada has ever had has been somewhat socialistic. Otherwise we would not have  health care, welfare, any other social programs and now day  care and dental plans and tampons in mens washrooms LOL

Governments only give grants to those that apply for them. There is no "blanket" grant. They need to apply

BCE is successful.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Your single minded obsession with socialism and marxism prevents you from understanding all governments are supposed to give its citizens what they want.

Nonsense.  Of course everyone wants everything they can get.  It is definitely not government's job to "give its citizens what they want".  Where did you come from?  How did you get that idea?

Governments duty is to maintain law and order, not provide every citizen with a comfortable, prosperous life.  It is up to each individual to get educated, work, and earn his or her own requirements for a good life.  That is what individual freedom means.  Marxism is the fairy tale ideology you believe in whereby government must provide it all as if money grows on a tree and government just doles it out.  That is the liberal and NDP ideology.  

That is why we have a housing crisis and food cost crisis for many people.  Government intervention, locking up the land, imposing onerous regulations, fees, and control of everything has led to the situation we are in now where houses are out reach for the average citizen.

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I remember you being all gung ho when grocery store CEO's got hauled before the carpet and they got no government money. So, it is OK for some but not for others?? 

NO, I was not gung ho.  I don't think I supported that idea.  If I did make a comment supporting it, I regret it and it would be against my basic beliefs.  I know probably many people would have supported government intervention because half of Canada is Socialist-minded.  Maybe you are mistaking me for someone else on here.

I basically am against government intervention and intrusion into private business.  That is Socialist and destructive of a free society and is on the path toward Marxism.

Edited April 12 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

45 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Here is the deal, if you take hundreds of millions of dollars from government, then yes, you are beholding to government. Especially if you lay off thousand of people after you take government money.

Specifically if you are:
-a government sanctioned and protected monopoly
-a monopoly that is protected from international competition
-a monopoly that is charged with providing essential infrastructure to the nation
-a monopoly that is charged with providing essential information services to the nation

The fact is that they ARE a private company, so the "Marxist" part is out the window.  Socialist ?  Maybe ?

There are about 40 state-owned telecoms, to start with... including in Norway, Britain, Sweden, Trinidad, Serbia, Australia, Saskatchewan.  Canada's are private for the most part.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Nonsense.  Of course everyone wants everything they can get.  It is definitely not government's job to "give its citizens what they want".  Where did you come from?  How did you get that idea?

Governments duty is to maintain law and order, not provide every citizen with a comfortable, prosperous life.  It is up to each individual to get educated, work, and earn his or her own requirements for a good life.  That is what individual freedom means.  Marxism is the fairy tale ideology you believe in whereby government must provide it all as if money grows on a tree and government just doles it out.  That is the liberal and NDP ideology.  

That is why we have a housing crisis and food cost crisis for many people.  Government intervention, locking up the land, imposing onerous regulations, fees, and control of everything has led to the situation we are in now where houses are out reach for the average citizen.

NO, I was not gung ho.  I don't think I supported that idea.  If I did make a comment supporting it, I regret it and it would be against my basic beliefs.  I know probably many people would have supported government intervention because half of Canada is Socialist-minded.  Maybe you are mistaking me for someone else on here.

I basically am against government intervention and intrusion into private business.  That is Socialist and destructive of a free society and is on the path toward Marxism.

Governments duty is far more than making laws. Where have you been LOL  Communist, socialist and marxists countries only make laws and let everyone else suffer their lives.

Yes you did. You were really for grocery CEO's to explain the high grocery prices. You refused to admit that production costs, transport costs, labour costs were part of the high price of groceries.

No you don't believe that. You are very much in favour of government ensuring we all, busiinesses included, are properly served.

Your bible thumpin self is more socialist and marxist than even socialist and Marxist countries are LOL. God loves all and gives all LOL

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Specifically if you are:
-a government sanctioned and protected monopoly
-a monopoly that is protected from international competition
-a monopoly that is charged with providing essential infrastructure to the nation
-a monopoly that is charged with providing essential information services to the nation

The fact is that they ARE a private company, so the "Marxist" part is out the window.  Socialist ?  Maybe ?

There are about 40 state-owned telecoms, to start with... including in Norway, Britain, Sweden, Trinidad, Serbia, Australia, Saskatchewan.  Canada's are private for the most part.

Agree except, hundreds of millions in grants sort of make them government controlled.

Isn't that the mantra of many on these forums? MSM is all government controlled LOL

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

1. Agree except, hundreds of millions in grants sort of make them government controlled.

2. Isn't that the mantra of many on these forums? MSM is all government controlled LOL

1. "Controlled" ... partially, otherwise the government would have stopped this jobs cut action they're so against right ?
2.  I double triple your LOL, sir.  That's 6X LOL

[blackbird]

47 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Governments duty is far more than making laws. Where have you been LOL  Communist, socialist and marxists countries only make laws and let everyone else suffer their lives.

Yes you did. You were really for grocery CEO's to explain the high grocery prices. You refused to admit that production costs, transport costs, labour costs were part of the high price of groceries.

No you don't believe that. You are very much in favour of government ensuring we all, busiinesses included, are properly served.

Your bible thumpin self is more socialist and marxist than even socialist and Marxist countries are LOL. God loves all and gives all LOL

No, not true.  I don't believe that.  You are making stuff up of course just to be contrary.  That is your thing.  Nice try.

Government should only be doing the minimal things for law and order.  Not providing all the social services.  If people don't want to make an effort themselves, too bad.  Those who can't work for legitimate reasons should be taken care of as should seniors and mentally ill in mental institutions.

  If we had a proper system, we would have private health care with good medical insurance.  Then we would have good, professional and quick medical care.  But we have been conned into the mess we are in by Socialist-minded people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter.  That's why the country is in the mess it is in.

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, not true.  I don't believe that.  You are making stuff up of course just to be contrary.  That is your thing.  Nice try.

Government should only be doing the minimal things for law and order.  Not providing all the social services.  If people don't want to make an effort themselves, too bad.  Those who can't work for legitimate reasons should be taken care of as should seniors and mentally ill in mental institutions.

  If we had a proper system, we would have private health care with good medical insurance.  Then we would have good, professional and quick medical care.  But we have been conned into the mess we are in by Socialist-minded people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter.  That's why the country is in the mess it is in.

Yeah OK LOL

Sure, private health care with and insurance....like the US???

Ask the populace what they want... LOL

Oh and stick lazy people and old people in mental institutions...like they do in communist and socialist countries?? LOL

Anyway, not very christian of you....do unto others and honour thy neighbour, help and love  etc etc LOL

Edited April 12 by ExFlyer

[blackbird]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:03 PM, ExFlyer said:

Sure, private health care with and insurance....like the US???

Perhaps we need a mixture of public and private.  Right now the health care system is in a crisis and around a million people in B.C. alone don't have a family doctor.

Emergency rooms close sometimes in some place.

Long waiting lists for some surgeries.   People sometimes wait a year for a procedure.

That is not health care.

But we know you don't care about anybody else.

If we had a mixture of private and public, then those with money could use private for some things if they so choose.  That would take the pressure off the public system and reduce waiting times, etc.  I am sure lots of people would be willing to pay for their own health insurance for certain procedures when they need it.   Why deny people the choice if they have the money for insurance and maybe a deductible for a procedure?

That is a possible solution to the failing health care system.  

Do you have a solution that is better?

 

[Zeitgeist]

The writing is on the wall for Canada if we continue on the current course of stupid priorities and overspending on government fluff:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/the-nadir-of-our-once-great-nation

[blackbird]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:03 PM, ExFlyer said:

Sure, private health care with and insurance....like the US???

No, I am not suggesting it to be like the U.S.  I don't know a lot about their system.

Western Europe has a mixture of private and public to varying degrees and I think many of them are far ahead of Canada is providing good service.  Canada is failing.  We need some major changes, not old Socialist thinking.

We have to remember public systems are inherently flawed because they are run by very powerful large unions that are looking after themselves, not the people they are supposed to be serving.

Public systems have a tendency to be overbloated with bureaucracy.  The federal civil service increased by 40% in size under Trudeau.

Ultimately in the existing public system, bureaucrats and politicians run things and politicians have the final say on how much money to spend on it.  They are under pressure to fund countless other projects and services and do.  Health care is just one item on their list.

In the meantime, we have people with money flying off to other countries to spend their money on health care.  That takes money away from Canada.  It would be better spend in Canada and it would subsidize the existing health care because if they paid for health care in Canada, it would mean more money overall is being put into health care here. 

If people with money pay for health insurance and obtain surgery in Canada, that would also reduce the cost of providing public health care and mean more service for people using the public system.  It would take the burden off the public system and should shorten or eliminate waiting lists for patients in the public system.  Overall we should have better care.  

Canada needs to study European models and see what is going on.

Edited April 20 by blackbird

[blackbird]

We should remember life span is also affected by the health care system.

So when you mock a private/public mixture of health care, you may be shortening your own life span.

Nobody knows what kind of medical problems could develop as we age.  Could be heart problems, cancer, or anything.   If the health care system does not treat those problems effectively and punctually, it could shorten one's life.  That is why the health care needs to be effective and timely.  Our lives are at stake here.  Don't cling to outdated ideology.  That won't save you if the system is failing.

[paradox34]

You need ask?

I pay taxes on my earnings. I pay taxes when I buy something. I pay taxes on things I'm forced to buy by government legislation. I pay taxes on the things I own and paid for with taxed monies. I pay taxes on money I earn by wisely investing monies I already paid taxes on. My taxed dollars are not invested in this country but given carte blanch to the global "community". I have politicians with two or more homes, two or more cars, vacation properties and every recreational toy imaginable jet setting around the world on my tax dollars insisting that it is my selfishness that is the root of all social and environmental "problems". Politicians whose net worth mysteriously explodes far beyond their already outrageous salary after election. Russian oligarchs can only envy Canadian politicians! 

Edited April 22 by paradox34

[Queenmandy85]

On 4/20/2024 at 11:06 AM, Zeitgeist said:

The writing is on the wall for Canada if we continue on the current course of stupid priorities and overspending on government fluff:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/the-nadir-of-our-once-great-nation

What are you complaining about? The Liberal government is in its last days and the NDP are tanking. Before you know it, the CPC will be in power. Just be patient a few months longer.

[Aristides]

Telecoms are protected from foreign competition in Canada, as long as they enjoy that protection, there is nothing wrong with holding them accountable.