KEEP THOSE VACCINE DEATHS QUIET!

[WestCanMan]

10 hours ago, Venandi said:

It was for me and you seem to have supported my very point below...

Oh, I agree with you 100% about the 'trampling of rights issue', I just don't think this was ever really an exercise in fighting off a pandemic. I think it was always an exercise in forcing people to take the 'vaccine', right from the get-go.

If you look back at the start of covid, people like Fauci, Trudeau, Dr Tam in Canada, NYC Mayor Bill DeBlasio and Nancy Pelosi were all saying the exact wrong things.

Trudeau and Tam: "Meh, covid probably won't affect Canadians all that much. Masks are bad, so we're gonna give all our PPE to China so they can fight covid over there with it. Allowing flights from China proves we're not racist."

DeBlasio in mid-February: "Keep riding the subway like normal." Because 4.5million people jammed into subway trains was a great idea...

At the end of February Pelosi made a big show of hugging random people in a big group in Chinatown, I still have the video if you wanna see it. It was the exact opposite of a social-distancing video. 

Literally everything that every leftist politician in North America was saying and doing in January and February 2020 was wrong.

Leftists were all over the map on covid, just being chill and being wrong all the time, the only thing they agreed on was that covid came from a wetmarket. That's back when saying "BSL4 lab" would get you banned from social media.

Then Dr Didier Raoult said "HCQ" and it was like someone kicked a hornet's nest. Suddenly leftists were all passionate and there was one clear enemy that had to be eradicated. From that moment on the focus went from "Covid, meh" to "we need a vaccine or we're all gonna die". 

From what I saw, this was all an exercise in mass-vaccination, but I don't know what the underlying reason was. Maybe profit. Maybe the jab actually protects us from a biological warfare agent that someone wants to use. It doesn't work against covid though. At least not in Canada it didn't. And there was never a reason for young people to take, especially not by force. 

[Aristides]

One thing is continually missed when this is debated. At the time there was a real worry that our hospitals would be overwhelmed and in some cases they actually were. Hospitals in the Los Angeles area were actually running out of things like oxygen. That wasn't a conspiracy it was the real world being faced by the world's health care systems.

 

I'm continually amazed by WCM's 20/20 hindsight, the guy must be some kind of genius. 

Edited April 5 by Aristides

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1. Yeah but it wasn't 'hindsight'. 

2. What happened to young people here was a crime. A total crime. 

3. Buddy, CBC and the Star is where you go if you want to find garbage. CNN. 

4. Not even people TBH, corporations with 'reputations' (lol) to protect and legal teams. 

 

1. You are looking back at events, therefore hindsight.
2. Your examples may not be representative of the whole of the data that public health was looking at.  "Crime" goes beyond errors in execution, so the bar of evidence is higher than presenting selective data - you have to show specifically how public health committed said crimes.  The examples in Israel, or that young people weren't as affected don't amount to crimes not even close.
3. They still make corrections and apologize when wrong.  Even if these examples are errors of judgment that wouldn't amount to crimes and a respectable organization wouldn't accuse people of criminal action.
4. Yes, organizations that are incorporated.  If you think corporations are "bad" then you are likely a leftists because they own anti-corporate sentiment in the public sphere.

[WestCanMan]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You are looking back at events, therefore hindsight.
2. Your examples may not be representative of the whole of the data that public health was looking at.  "Crime" goes beyond errors in execution, so the bar of evidence is higher than presenting selective data - you have to show specifically how public health committed said crimes.  The examples in Israel, or that young people weren't as affected don't amount to crimes not even close.
3. They still make corrections and apologize when wrong.  Even if these examples are errors of judgment that wouldn't amount to crimes and a respectable organization wouldn't accuse people of criminal action.
4. Yes, organizations that are incorporated.  If you think corporations are "bad" then you are likely a leftists because they own anti-corporate sentiment in the public sphere.

1. It's hindsight for you, looking back, but I knew it was wrong to vax kids before we started doing it. 
2. The whole data set that Health Canada was looking at, in fall of 2020 when we started vaxing kids, was that less than 20 kids were killed by covid in almost 2 years. That's not the level where you take a chance on vaxing 8M of them with an experimental mRNA jab, unless there's something about covid that no one's telling us. 
3. I can't even talk about our MSM now tbh, it's such a disappointment. I grew up naively believing that our media was somehow 'better' or more 'honest' than that of China or Russia, and we're level with them at best. 
4. I don't think that all corporations are 'bad'. I'm a capitalist myself, but at the end of the day I think that every business, whether they're within a communist, capitalist, socialist, libertarian, theocratic or any other form of gov't, has to compete or they're failing themselves and/or their community. MSNBC and Statista had to decide if it was in their best interests to serve the public or to lie to us and they chose the latter. I guess the powers-that-be at Statista opted to shill for big pharma a bit because everyone else is doing it, and it didn't make economic sense to hurt big pharma's bottom line.

• MSNBC's reasons are less legitimate. They're interfering in the democratic process and that's unhealthy. The media is actually a vital part of a healthy, functioning democracy and their corruption is a step in the wrong direction. 

[Venandi]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

"Crime" goes beyond errors in execution...

In some of these cases I think (or at least hope) that your definition of "error" would benefit from a bit of tweaking.  

Right now it means the state or condition of being wrong in judgement or action. Wrong can easily come with legal consequences, it becomes more than a simple deviation from nominal when it openly assaults reasonableness. 

The Governor of New York comes instantly to mind for me when I consider such things.

Remember when he forced 9056 covid patients into nursing homes knowing that they housed vulnerable people and knowing that the facilities were under staffed and ill prepared. As if that wasn't enough, remember when his office deliberately under reported all the numbers by 40% or more... I say that added intent to existing gross negligence.

Incredibly though, people still defend Cuomo,  personally I think he should be in jail. That level of gross negligence should come with a cost that runs steeper than a simple shoulder shrug from people who were't injured by the negligence. I wonder if you would be as forgiving if airline pilots in Canada operated with the same attention to detail that he did.

Here's another example of what I mean, It might be off topic but it illustrates the trajectory. There's a case in Quebec right now where a man had two healthy fingers amputated from his left hand because of "body integrity dysphoria." What's with the doctors here? This is well above an error in judgement IMO.

Should this guy get disability checks for life now because he's missing fingers?

So, have Doctors in Canada become as demented as the ones advising Gov Cuomo? I would say that the acid test for determining such things is reasonableness, often mentioned in the same breath as ordinary care.

In terms of damage caused, the guy who plows your driveway is held to higher standard, and I bet you would agree that he should if something got damaged.... due to an "error" on his part.   

 

Edited April 5 by Venandi

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

One thing is continually missed when this is debated. At the time there was a real worry that our hospitals would be overwhelmed and in some cases they actually were. Hospitals in the Los Angeles area were actually running out of things like oxygen. That wasn't a conspiracy it was the real world being faced by the world's health care systems.

 

I'm continually amazed by WCM's 20/20 hindsight, the guy must be some kind of genius. 

We were told that hospitals were overrun here by covid patients in 2020 and 2021 as well, but they weren't, at all, so I don't know what to believe about LA. 

2022 was actually our worst year for covid patients by far, but covid wasn't even a major topic on the news in 2022. 

Honest to f'ing God, just open your eyes for once... I didn't make ^^that^^ graph myself. It's not "my opinion".  

The reason why you and I believe completely different things is that I don't just listen to our MSM and form all of my opinions based on exactly what they say. I do my own research. I look at stats when they're available. 

"😱 Kill him!" - leftist cultists

I've had a completely different understanding of covid from you right from day 1, and my version of it just happens to look more like reality. Sorry, bro. 

You're like a guy who grew up on a desert island watching CNN, where everything that you think you know is based on their completely distorted model of reality. 

I've known for a long time that everything that's opined on CNN is total bullshit. When they say something, my knee-jerk reaction is always to look in the opposite direction for the truth, and that's where it always is. Eventually, the truth always ends up being the opposite of CNN's initial narrative. Always. 

Try this as a new model of our currently reality... "😱 Maybe Joe Biden really isn't bright and capable, with impeccable integrity and a devotion to his country."

Edited April 5 by WestCanMan

[Michael Hardner]

34 minutes ago, Venandi said:

1. In some of these cases I think (or at least hope) that your definition of "error" would benefit from a bit of tweaking.  Right now it means the state or condition of being wrong in judgement or action. Wrong can easily come with legal consequences, it becomes more than a simple deviation from nominal when it openly assaults reasonableness. 

The Governor of New York comes instantly to mind for me when I consider such things.

2. Remember when he forced 9056 covid patients into nursing homes knowing that they housed vulnerable people and knowing that the facilities were under staffed and ill prepared. As if that wasn't enough, remember when his office deliberately under reported all the numbers by 40% or more... I say that added intent to existing gross negligence.

3. I wonder if you would be as forgiving if airline pilots in Canada operated with the same attention to detail that he did.

4. Here's another example ...

5. ... bet you would agree that he should if something got damaged.... due to an "error" on his part.   

 

1. Ok
2. Deliberate underreporting is not an error.  It's wrong.
3. Well, the person I'm responding to hasn't given full context and that's the problem.  They quote some data and imply that the fact that such data exists means that "crimes" happen as far as I can see.  
4. I don't know what you want to show me with the example - that such cases exist ?  Of course they do.
5. Why do you think I would agree ?  

People come on here with their arguments front-loaded with ANGER, all caps.  If you don't agree with them immediately without thinking then you are cheering for the other side, right ?  If you ask for a cite then you disagree with them, right ?  Wrong...

[Venandi]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

5. Why do you think I would agree ?  

Mostly because you're paying the contracted driver. 

Since he's plowing for hire and reward he's expected to exercise a reasonable standard of due diligence. I think most people would expect a contractor to be accountable for damages to known infrastructure temporarily covered in snow; hitting them in a contracted driveway would normally be considered an error on his part. You may have even insisted that a given area be hand shovelled because of the obstructions, that makes it worse. 

It's a step above the ordinary care required if I (being a good neighbour) simply plowed your driveway for free because you had Covid.... that was a weak attempt at avoiding thread drift accusations BTW.

The difference is important though, due diligence implies knowing that ordinary care actions have been carried out. A similar error on my part wouldn't be attributed to negligence if I couldn't reasonably know about the obstacle and you failed to tell me after asking for my help.

That said, maybe you're more forgiving than most customers and that's great. Darned unusual to be sure, but still great.

Anyway, that's how it was explained to me... since I don't plow commercially anymore, I didn't bother looking it up. But surely, doctors, politicians, airline pilots, police officers etc, should be held accountable for negligence too. 

And before you assert that none of the errors (meaning mistakes BTW) were due to negligence, I would suggest that what Gov Cuomo did was gross negligence on a grand scale.

In addition, and IMO, mistakes deliberately wrapped in a deceitful blanket of misinformation (and there was lots of that) immediately qualifies graduates from error to negligence in a single bound.

 

 

 

Edited April 5 by Venandi

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, Venandi said:

1. Mostly because you're paying the contracted driver. 

2. Since he's plowing for hire and reward .. should be held accountable for negligence too. 

3. If what Gov Cuomo did wasn't gross negligence on a grand scale, then I think we need a new definition of negligence.

 

 

 

1. Metaphors don't work with me so often.
2. Ok but... the metaphor isn't apt.  Sure, negligence amounts to liability on the part of the neglectful party but negligence isn't criminal necessarily.  And these things can be argued in court if so.  
3. Yes, maybe.  But now we're down in the weeds with this nursing home thing and I am not going to scroll up to try to strain a dotted line back to 'criminality'.  It's not fun for me.

[Venandi]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am not going to scroll up to try to strain a dotted line back to 'criminality'.

If you don't consider his actions negligent, his advisors incompetent, and the resulting carnage as predictable as it was criminal, then I will likely never be able to see over the weeds in your garden.  

Edited April 5 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

10 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I wonder...were proper autopsies being done on these SDS victims?

Depends on what you mean by 'proper'.  I doubt it'll be too extensive.

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Venandi said:

If you don't consider his actions negligent, his advisors incompetent, and the resulting carnage as predictable as it was criminal, then I will likely never be able to see over the weeds in your garden.  

I will defer to your opinion on Cuomo, how's that ?

[Venandi]

 

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I will defer to your opinion on Cuomo, how's that ?

Thank's, off to a good start eh? 

Comparing some of our past absurdities with present ones intrigues me a bit too. Take the covid mask rules as a (one of many) example.  

Back then, if you wanted an immediate coded response from the police then reporting someone for not wearing a mask was second only to reporting a group of Jewish people for praying in public. Ya, I'm being a bit sarcastic here but you get my drift... 

With the clarity of hindsight, we can look back and consider mask filtration efficiency as a function of virus diameter without getting fired now. It's something akin to erecting a chainlink fence around your property to keep mosquitoes out but even knowing that at the time, we still lost our collective $--- over it.

My favourite remembrance was watching a guy on a lawn tractor cutting a 3 acre field on a hot day whilst wearing a mask.

Now compare that with our latest self inflicted hospital absurdity and stand in awe...

 

B.C. nurses told not to confiscate drugs, weapons from patients

The leaked memo, released by BC United, tells nurses that they could face charges for confiscating a patient’s drugs or weapons, a policy the BC Nurses’ Union says is putting health-care staff at risk.

So, indulge me in a two part question if you would:

-In future, I'm wondering if you'll feel as silly as I will when explaining our thought process to grandchildren who may find themselves writing a history paper on the subject. And, since I'm personally at a loss to explain our conduct rationally, maybe you can help recommend an intelligent response. 

Luckily, I still have a few years to come up with something.

 

 

Edited April 6 by Venandi

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Venandi said:

With the clarity of hindsight, we can look back and consider....

When people looked at the Spanish Flu at the beginning of the COVID pandemic it was apparent that millions of people would come unglued as issues became conspiracies and political entrepreneurs proliferated.

The entrepreneurs are still milking it for all it's worth.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

When people looked at the Spanish Flu at the beginning of the COVID pandemic it was apparent that millions of people would come unglued as issues became conspiracies and political entrepreneurs proliferated.

The entrepreneurs are still milking it for all it's worth.

Yeah - literally not true.  Nobody looked back at the spanish flu, the lessons of previous pandemics were largely forgotten, and in fact the world did vastly better back then 'panic wise' and during the tuberculosis years as well.  The generations today were much weaker and freaked out much faster.  For gods' sake - they started hoarding toilet paper of all things. Because when the world comes to an end, you really want a huge supply of toilet paper on hand to see you through.

 I think the insane freak out was actually surprising. But - the lefties like trudeau and jaggers really pushed the 'we're all going to die and it's conservatives who'll kill us" panic for political gain.

The left never likes to let a good crisis go to waste.

[Aristides]

On 4/5/2024 at 10:17 AM, WestCanMan said:

We were told that hospitals were overrun here by covid patients in 2020 and 2021 as well, but they weren't, at all, so I don't know what to believe about LA. 

2022 was actually our worst year for covid patients by far, but covid wasn't even a major topic on the news in 2022. 

Honest to f'ing God, just open your eyes for once... I didn't make ^^that^^ graph myself. It's not "my opinion".  

The reason why you and I believe completely different things is that I don't just listen to our MSM and form all of my opinions based on exactly what they say. I do my own research. I look at stats when they're available. 

"😱 Kill him!" - leftist cultists

I've had a completely different understanding of covid from you right from day 1, and my version of it just happens to look more like reality. Sorry, bro. 

You're like a guy who grew up on a desert island watching CNN, where everything that you think you know is based on their completely distorted model of reality. 

I've known for a long time that everything that's opined on CNN is total bullshit. When they say something, my knee-jerk reaction is always to look in the opposite direction for the truth, and that's where it always is. Eventually, the truth always ends up being the opposite of CNN's initial narrative. Always. 

Try this as a new model of our currently reality... "😱 Maybe Joe Biden really isn't bright and capable, with impeccable integrity and a devotion to his country."

Again, your exceptional 20/20 hindsight is awe inspiring

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah - literally not true. 

You're obviously not very bright.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Again, your exceptional 20/20 hindsight is awe inspiring

If I wasn't saying it back then and I just started saying it now, then you could call it "hindsight". 

I was talking about all the vaxed-deaths and the increases in the deaths in 2022 DURING THAT CALENDAR YEAR. I didn't wait until 2023 to say that covid deaths were higher in 2022 than previous years.

Edited April 6 by WestCanMan

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You're obviously not very bright.

Aww muffin - you got butthurt again and couldn't think of anything intelligent to say? Realized you were wrong and felt like lashing out a bit? I get it.

Sorry but what i said was quite true.

[Aristides]

33 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If I wasn't saying it back then and I just started saying it now, then you could call it "hindsight". 

I was talking about all the vaxed-deaths and the increases in the deaths in 2022 DURING THAT CALENDAR YEAR. I didn't wait until 2023 to say that covid deaths were higher in 2022 than previous years.

Yes, everything you say about from 2020 is hindsight. The fact is, no one knew where we were headed at the time and health care professionals had to assume a worst case scenario. They should always assume a worst case scenario when dealing with something new and unknown.

Edited April 6 by Aristides

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry but what i said was quite true.

I'm the only guy in the world that looked at the Spanish Flu pandemic for clues about what we might expect to happen during the COVID pandemic?

As someone who does their research about issues instead of spouting whatever comes into their silly head you know you're wrong.

So you must be lying 🙂.

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Aristides said:

Yes, everything you say about from 2020 is hindsight. The fact is, no one knew where we were headed at the time and health care professionals had to assume a worst case scenario.

Quite wrong.

Back in 2020 I was even saying that the people who seemed intent on railroading us into taking the vax were going to try to get young people to take it, due to the fact that young people don't die of covid. I.e., whatever group they end up in will appear to be very resistant to covid because their ultra-low death rate will bring the avg down.

FFWD to now, Statista still cites the "fully vaccinated" group as proof of success of the jab, because that group is basically chock full of people who only took the jab because they had to, even though they didn't need it. That being the young people I referenced above.

 Why don't you go back to where you think I misspoke, Aristedes?

I've made about 10,000 posts about covid, including posts about the jabs, the origin of covid, Dr Fauci, Dr Tam, Trudeau, jab safety, jab efficacy, etc, etc, etc. You and all the other leftists here hated every single one of them. "They were all wrong and I was a conspiracist". 

Surely by now there must be something that you can dig up to say "I told you so!" about... Find something, Aristedes...

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm the only guy in the world that looked at the Spanish Flu pandemic for clues about what we might expect to happen during the COVID pandemic?

Sure. Perhaps even you didn't i expect?  

Always it's gotta be dishonesty with you. You go from tonnes of people did (not true) to not a single person in the whole world other than you did  (also not true) and you come up with this crazy conclusion that somehow in the spanish flue period everyone went crazy so we all knew that people would go crazy now, which is false.

Quote

As someone who does their research about issues instead of spouting whatever comes into their silly head you know you're wrong.

am i

Well lets see all these research documents where people compared covid to the response from the spanish flu and determined that people would go crazy. If so many were researching it at the time there must be many documents out there showing why the spanish flu response proves this time people would go crazy.

I'll wait.

 

Still waiting.

 

ANnnnnnd waiting.

Nothing? Yeah. thought so.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sure

Cite.

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, Venandi said:

 

Thank's, off to a good start eh? 

Comparing some of our past absurdities with present ones intrigues me a bit too. Take the covid mask rules as a (one of many) example.  

Back then, if you wanted an immediate coded response from the police then reporting someone for not wearing a mask was second only to reporting a group of Jewish people for praying in public. Ya, I'm being a bit sarcastic here but you get my drift... 

With the clarity of hindsight, we can look back and consider mask filtration efficiency as a function of virus diameter without getting fired now. It's something akin to erecting a chainlink fence around your property to keep mosquitoes out but even knowing that at the time, we still lost our collective $--- over it.

My favourite remembrance was watching a guy on a lawn tractor cutting a 3 acre field on a hot day whilst wearing a mask.

Now compare that with our latest self inflicted hospital absurdity and stand in awe...

 

B.C. nurses told not to confiscate drugs, weapons from patients

The leaked memo, released by BC United, tells nurses that they could face charges for confiscating a patient’s drugs or weapons, a policy the BC Nurses’ Union says is putting health-care staff at risk.

So, indulge me in a two part question if you would:

-In future, I'm wondering if you'll feel as silly as I will when explaining our thought process to grandchildren who may find themselves writing a history paper on the subject. And, since I'm personally at a loss to explain our conduct rationally, maybe you can help recommend an intelligent response. 

Luckily, I still have a few years to come up with something.

 

 

What memo? Written by who? What hospital?  Who is BC United? A soccer team?