Justin Trudeau, please fund Bibles in every home

[West]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm going to speak over the religious zealots for a second, then come back to them:

Secular humanists: although you disagree with "the bible" as a source, I have pointed out that a formalized and coded moral code was & is instrumental in establishing a basic roadmap for a cooperative society.  I would assess that many of you believe that "the bible" is being contorted and used by manipulative agents right now, but that you agree that some form of common moral code is helpful, especially where influencers have sucked the air out and created a vacuum of trust.

Bible likers: you DO realize that "the bible" was not readable until the dawn of the Renaissance, and spawned decades of strife and war once it was PRINTED in the local language for the few literates to read, yes?  "The bible" was only instrumental as a social tool when used by community leaders who were clergy.  They would provide a counter balance, sometimes fractious, to the governing powers of nations.

There is no such arbiter of morality today.  If you pine for the days of old, then you are pining for a time when there were non-political leaders who would provide moral leadership on issues of the day.  As religion faded, the clergy gave way to academia and other disparate voices.  Today we have performance artists - comedians, actors, musicians - who are providing something like this but with nothing close to the influence, nor the cohesion of a common moral stance that a religious sect would give.

So I think we're agreeing more than we see.  I would say cultural bubbles prevent us from merging our outlooks and making politics work in the way they did many decades ago.

While true, once the Bible was translated to a native tongue it was used to teach literacy and everything else The degree to which biblical principals have been implemented in nations is the degree to which these nations have prospered. 

Loren Cunninghams book "The Book that Transforms Nations" is a good source as it presents case studies ie South Korea. 

I do appreciate your point and would argue the Bible is the foundation for alot of things, not just morality but concepts in health sciences etc. Of course there's been a progression in those areas but the foundations were laid by the Bible

Edited April 2 by West

[ExFlyer]

31 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm going to speak over the religious zealots for a second, then come back to them:

Secular humanists: although you disagree with "the bible" as a source, I have pointed out that a formalized and coded moral code was & is instrumental in establishing a basic roadmap for a cooperative society.  I would assess that many of you believe that "the bible" is being contorted and used by manipulative agents right now, but that you agree that some form of common moral code is helpful, especially where influencers have sucked the air out and created a vacuum of trust.

Bible likers: you DO realize that "the bible" was not readable until the dawn of the Renaissance, and spawned decades of strife and war once it was PRINTED in the local language for the few literates to read, yes?  "The bible" was only instrumental as a social tool when used by community leaders who were clergy.  They would provide a counter balance, sometimes fractious, to the governing powers of nations.

There is no such arbiter of morality today.  If you pine for the days of old, then you are pining for a time when there were non-political leaders who would provide moral leadership on issues of the day.  As religion faded, the clergy gave way to academia and other disparate voices.  Today we have performance artists - comedians, actors, musicians - who are providing something like this but with nothing close to the influence, nor the cohesion of a common moral stance that a religious sect would give.

So I think we're agreeing more than we see.  I would say cultural bubbles prevent us from merging our outlooks and making politics work in the way they did many decades ago.

No one ever disagreed the bible was a source. The question was always , a source of what? Your third paragraph goes into that.

Not only was the bible non existent till the renaissance, it is still today debated and the dead sea scrolls are not being made fully available for validation of the bible (knowing they are only reference of the old testament). They are, for whatever reason, closely guarded documents and just now becoming somewhat and limited accessible to the public. . Is there something there that is contradictory or telling a complete different story than what is in the "good book"?? The holders of the scrolls will not release them for research. As you say, the clergy were the ones that determined morality.... according to their interpretation. Also remember that reading was not a thing for almost all peoples so what the people knew of the bible was what was said by those same clergy. Sort of like indigenous history... all hearsay and stories altered by the teller .

"There are more than 45,000 denominations globally. Followers of Jesus span the globe. But the global body of more than 2 billion Christians is separated into thousands of denominations. Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Apostolic, Methodist — the list goes on".  https://www.livescience.com/christianity-denominations.html

And every one of them has a different interpetation of the bible...who is correct and which moral compass is the right one?

I am not certain that "we're agreeing more than we see". I think folks are still very adamant about the opinions and thoughts on the bible depending on thoie denomination. (or religion as not all religions use the bible).

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by ExFlyer

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, West said:

1.   The degree to which biblical principals have been implemented in nations is the degree to which these nations have prospered. 

2. I do appreciate your point and would argue the Bible is the foundation for alot of things, not just morality but concepts in health sciences etc. Of course there's been a progression in those areas but the foundations were laid by the Bible

1.  Well, kind of.  But the big gains in prosperity for the Europeans came when money-lending was allowed, to be used in funding exploration.  And money lending is against the bibles, they had to work on that one.

 

Quote

The rise of Protestantism in the 16th century weakened Rome's influence, and its dictates against usury became irrelevant in some areas, freeing up the development of banking in Northern Europe. In the late 18th century, Protestant merchant families began to move into banking to an increasing degree, especially in trading countries such as the United Kingdom (Barings), Germany (Schroders, Berenbergs) and the Netherlands (Hope & Co., Gülcher & Mulder). At the same time, new types of financial activities broadened the scope of banking far beyond its origins. One school of thought attributes to Calvinism the setting of the stage for the later development of capitalism in northern Europe.^[128] In this view, elements of Calvinism represented a revolt against the medieval condemnation of usury and, implicitly, of profit in general. Such a connection was advanced in influential works by R. H. Tawney (1880–1962) and by Max Weber (1864–1920). According to Weber, the Protestant work ethic was a force behind an unplanned and uncoordinated mass action that influenced the development of capitalism.

Rodney Stark propounds the theory that Christian rationality is the primary driver behind the success of capitalism and the Rise of the West.^[129]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking

So - yes Christianity was the foundation for prosperity but after protestantism initiated capitalism as the dominant social force.

2. I said as much above, yes.  The populists seem to all be calling for 'reform'.  First step might be to figure out what that means.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What meltdown?

The ones where you go on for pages posting your ass porn and fantasying that it's me, or pretending to post from ai bots that you've edited   

You and moonbox are the same in that regard - when you lose or wind up looking stupid you have these little melt down hissy fit\s. You post childish things repetatively like a 5 year old and Moonbox blames his stupidity on how frequently i post.    Very predictable.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The meltdowns come from you when you attack every one of my and everyone elses posts.

Ahhhh - so it's MY fault that you post ass porn.   

Typical leftist.

Fact is i don't attack everyone's posts, and i don't even attack all of yours. Most of the time it's you saying something stupid to me that starts us off, and on those occasions when i do respond to you i always start civil. Hell i've even liked a few of your posts where you weren't blathering like an 1diot.

You can't blame me for your juvinille behaviour kiddo.

[ExFlyer]

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The ones where you go on for pages posting your ass porn and fantasying that it's me, or pretending to post from ai bots that you've edited   

You and moonbox are the same in that regard - when you lose or wind up looking stupid you have these little melt down hissy fit\s. You post childish things repetatively like a 5 year old and Moonbox blames his stupidity on how frequently i post.    Very predictable.

Ahhhh - so it's MY fault that you post ass porn.   

Typical leftist.

Fact is i don't attack everyone's posts, and i don't even attack all of yours. Most of the time it's you saying something stupid to me that starts us off, and on those occasions when i do respond to you i always start civil. Hell i've even liked a few of your posts where you weren't blathering like an 1diot.

You can't blame me for your juvinille behaviour kiddo.

Man, you are becoming more and more paranoid with every post.

You should not post selfies if you don't want them to be seen LOL

And AI has this to say about you and your posts:

"It seems like there is a misunderstanding between you and the person you're addressing. You are posting content that is not suitable and accuse them of pretending to be an AI bot. They also mention that you react similarly when you feel challenged or embarrassed. They claim that they only respond to your provocative statements and always initiate the conversation in a civil manner. Your behavior suggests that you should take responsibility for your own actions."

Edited April 2 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Man, you are becoming more and more paranoid with every post.

LOL - observation is not paranoia

Quote

You should not post selfies if you don't want them to be seen LOL

ROFLMAO!!! There it is    Once again your brain melts to the point where you have a hissy fit and weird fantasies about your ass porn and me  

LOL - you're so predictable Leading you around by the nose is so easy, but it's still comical to watch you freak out  

[West]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Well, kind of.  But the big gains in prosperity for the Europeans came when money-lending was allowed, to be used in funding exploration.  And money lending is against the bibles, they had to work on that one.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking

So - yes Christianity was the foundation for prosperity but after protestantism initiated capitalism as the dominant social force.

2. I said as much above, yes.  The populists seem to all be calling for 'reform'.  First step might be to figure out what that means.

The Torah introduced the first measures of the "safety net". The early church did this on a smaller scale as well. Up to that point you sacrificed your child to the gods. 

[ExFlyer]

27 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - observation is not paranoia

ROFLMAO!!! There it is    Once again your brain melts to the point where you have a hissy fit and weird fantasies about your ass porn and me  

LOL - you're so predictable Leading you around by the nose is so easy, but it's still comical to watch you freak out  

Yup, you are what you are...a paranoid that is very upset his selfie became public and cannot get out of his own way LOL

Stay on those meds before you become too schizophrenic.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, you are what you are...a paranoid that is very upset his selfie became public and cannot get out of his own way LOL

Stay on those meds before you become too schizophrenic.

And the meltdown continues
🍿 🍿 🍿

 

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, West said:

The Torah introduced the first measures of the "safety net". The early church did this on a smaller scale as well. Up to that point you sacrificed your child to the gods. 

Like the social safety net ?  Cool... You see a lot in there supporting liberalism IMO

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Like the social safety net ?  Cool... You see a lot in there supporting liberalism IMO

He also noted that it was better to teach a man to fish than to just give him one

Helping someone while they're down till they get back on their feet is actually conservatism.

Paying someone to stay off their feet is liberalism. and the bible doesn't recommend that per se.

[ExFlyer]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And the meltdown continues
🍿 🍿 🍿

 

Nope, just call em as I see em

Oh and I think you should check the definition of meltdown so you can use it properly. Your vocabulary seems repetitive and limited

[CdnFox]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Nope, just call em as I see em

 

LOL - you're talking about your ass porn again    So first off 'call 'em as i see em' might be a phrase to avoid and second - definitely a melt down   Normal thinking people don't talk about their ass porn whenever they lose an argument  

[ExFlyer]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

LOL - you're talking about your ass porn again    So first off 'call 'em as i see em' might be a phrase to avoid and second - definitely a melt down   Normal thinking people don't talk about their ass porn whenever they lose an argument  

The only one continually talking about ass porn is you.  You seem rather guilty.  I call em as I see em.

I have  only used ass porn term today in retort to  your false accusation.

Also, I see you have not learned the definition of meltdown.as I suggested.  You would sound less ignorant if you used words properly

Just trying to help you grow. You are clearly having issues with personal growth

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

The only one continually talking about ass porn is you.

Nonsense. You just mentioned it again along with the little childish bit about how you fantasize that it's a picture of me

And you posted it dozens of times

 It's hardly your only melt down - you have them regular - but it's certainly one of  the funniest. So when meltdowns get mentioned it's probably going to come up

And you did specifically ask 'what meltdowns'   So there you go

 

Listen bud - when you post ass porn as a response, or do your 'repeating post' thing, or do the 'Fake AI' thing - it's basically all the same. It's you having a meltdown and acting like a child. Normal people don't do that.  It's a weird quirk like how myata talks in gibberish, or how robosmith latches on to a word and uses it everywhere for weeks.

If you don't want people to laugh at you don't be such a child. The fact i was able to point out you were going to have a melt down and you had one on queue should be a pretty big hint  

[Moonbox]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Then why did you want to look at it.   

Because you quoted me, you clown.  

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

My logic isn't banal to anyone with a brain. It's simply correct. I don't know what you were thinking suggesting that christian principles were not something you'd want to base a society from the way you did. 

They're universal human principles, which are neither unique nor distinguishing features of Christian tradition.  They're equally applicable to Buddhists, Taoists, Confuscians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and probably animist shamans living in deep forgotten jungles.  This makes your comment banal, and your logic (as usual) utter garbage.  🤡

[West]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Like the social safety net ?  Cool... You see a lot in there supporting liberalism IMO

I support healthy people and loving thy neighbor

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Because you quoted me, you clown. 

That explains why you responded but not why you wanted to look at the reasoning if you found it banal.

Said something stupid again and now you're trying to justify it i see.  And once again your stupidity is somehow my fault.

 

Quote

They're universal human principles,

They are not actually. many cultures for example didn't have the same issue with theft. Many did not offer legal protection for people's wives or stealing them. And TONNES of cultures allowed killing. Duels and even 'sporting' events like the coliseum abounded.

So no. Not universal.  at all.  Hell even christians have a tough time following them.  But they're a good foundation. Give a percent of your income to the poor, be forgiving, etc etc.

So as a collection they are unique. And whether they are unique or not they're pretty good. So when you suggested it WASN'T a set of principles that we should be proud of you were wrong.

You've said something stupid - you got called on the stupid - now you're tripling down on the stupid   By and large for the most part the morals and ethics of the christian religon are good ones to base your country on, or your personal life on.

Are you ready to go to your hissy fit  now or did you want to play that game where you try to pick one word or phrase and argue that it doesn't mean what it was clearly intended to mean? Or are we done.

 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Nonsense. You just mentioned it again along with the little childish bit about how you fantasize that it's a picture of me

And you posted it dozens of times

 It's hardly your only melt down - you have them regular - but it's certainly one of  the funniest. So when meltdowns get mentioned it's probably going to come up

And you did specifically ask 'what meltdowns'   So there you go

 

Listen bud - when you post ass porn as a response, or do your 'repeating post' thing, or do the 'Fake AI' thing - it's basically all the same. It's you having a meltdown and acting like a child. Normal people don't do that.  It's a weird quirk like how myata talks in gibberish, or how robosmith latches on to a word and uses it everywhere for weeks.

If you don't want people to laugh at you don't be such a child. The fact i was able to point out you were going to have a melt down and you had one on queue should be a pretty big hint  

I mentioned it for the first time. I do not post ass porn (words that you have used everywhere for weeks by the way), never have. Just your selfie.. I have always only ever said It was your selfie and that is what seem to trigger you LOL

It is your selfie, you should be proud it has been reposted so many times. Or, perhaps you should not have taken the selfie??  Calling your selfie ass porn does you injustice. I will grant you that it is a bit deprecating but hey, that is you all over the place. LOL

Anyway, I did not read the rest of the post post. I let AI decide what it means and here is AI decision:

It seems like you're expressing frustration and concern about the behavior you've portrayed in this conversation. It's essential to maintain respect and positivity in communication. While it's crucial to address any issues, it's also important to do so in a constructive manner. Please consider rephrasing your message to focus on the problem without attacking the person involved. This will encourage a more productive and positive dialogue.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I mentioned it for the first time. I do not post ass porn (words that you have used everywhere for weeks by the way), never have. Just your selfie..

well obviously it's not my selfie and obviously it's ass porn.  So yes - you post ass porn.  And the proper way to refer to ass porn is "ass porn".  For some reason you had some ass porn kicking around and you post it and your fantasy that it's me.

And it hasn't been "weeks' - just since you posted all that ass porn.

So what's happened is you decided you couldn't cope with the truth of an argument that you lost, and you felt the best way to deal with that is to post ass porn and then share your weird fantasy that its somehow me.  I guess you thought that would be a mature and adult way to deal with your emotional issues.

Now you regret doing that because i won't let you live it down easily.  Yet - you keep doing the same thing, acting like a child and getting called out for it and you're wondering why this keeps coming up.

It's simple. Act like a child and i'll bring up all the childish things you've done.

But you're absolutely right to be embarrassed by it. You couldn't have looked more like  a loser if you'd tried.

[ExFlyer]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

well obviously it's not my selfie and obviously it's ass porn.  So yes - you post ass porn.  And the proper way to refer to ass porn is "ass porn".  For some reason you had some ass porn kicking around and you post it and your fantasy that it's me.

And it hasn't been "weeks' - just since you posted all that ass porn.

So what's happened is you decided you couldn't cope with the truth of an argument that you lost, and you felt the best way to deal with that is to post ass porn and then share your weird fantasy that its somehow me.  I guess you thought that would be a mature and adult way to deal with your emotional issues.

Now you regret doing that because i won't let you live it down easily.  Yet - you keep doing the same thing, acting like a child and getting called out for it and you're wondering why this keeps coming up.

It's simple. Act like a child and i'll bring up all the childish things you've done.

But you're absolutely right to be embarrassed by it. You couldn't have looked more like  a loser if you'd tried.

Poor poor baby.

Yes, it's been weeks and you cannot get over being outed.   I cope very well and understand you cannot so, it's OK. I have been telling you to stay on your meds.

I regret nothing. As a matter of fact I love having you squirm an deny an deflect and try to defend your 1docy.

Acting like a child is clearly your issue right now...cannot get over it ...gotta keep trying to deflect and say it is not your selfie.

I am not embarrassed, far from it, it gives me joy to watch you whine and whimper. The loser is the one that keeps denying what they truly are and you are truly it LOL

 

AI has some advice for you: Not that you would take it but a  computer reads your posts and knows you are the loser.

"I understand that you feel upset and disappointed by the recent events. It's crucial to address your concerns and feelings openly and honestly. Engaging in constructive dialogue can help you understand your perspectives and find a way to resolve the issue. Remember to stay calm, be empathetic, and listen actively to other's points of view. This will help you create a more positive and constructive atmosphere for finding a solution."

Keep it up, I have lots of time and sympathy for a loser like you .And AI never gets tired of crapping on your posts. I can keep on keeping on as long as it pi$$es you off.

C'mom sweetie, keep it up LOL

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Poor poor baby.

Yes, it's been weeks and you cannot get over being outed.   I cope very well and understand you cannot so, it's OK. I have been telling you to stay on your meds.

I regret nothing. As a matter of fact I love having you squirm an deny an deflect and try to defend your 1docy.

Acting like a child is clearly your issue right now...cannot get over it ...gotta keep trying to deflect and say it is not your selfie.

I am not embarrassed, far from it, it gives me joy to watch you whine and whimper. The loser is the one that keeps denying what they truly are and you are truly it LOL

 

AI has some advice for you: Not that you would take it but a  computer reads your posts and knows you are the loser.

"I understand that you feel upset and disappointed by the recent events. It's crucial to address your concerns and feelings openly and honestly. Engaging in constructive dialogue can help you understand your perspectives and find a way to resolve the issue. Remember to stay calm, be empathetic, and listen actively to other's points of view. This will help you create a more positive and constructive atmosphere for finding a solution."

Keep it up, I have lots of time and sympathy for a loser like you .And AI never gets tired of crapping on your posts. I can keep on keeping on as long as it pi$$es you off.

C'mom sweetie, keep it up LOL

wow - that's a lot of text to basically say "I shouldn't have posted ass porn just because you were right and I was wrong and i coudln't cope"  

[ExFlyer]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

wow - that's a lot of text to basically say "I shouldn't have posted ass porn just because you were right and I was wrong and i coudln't cope"  

Aww, too much truth for you to absorb eh? LOL  '

Had to address some of your BS so, it takes a lot. LOL

Nope, you are what you are and prove it every post..... A loser

You can't handle the truth, especially when it is about you LOL

Poor poor baby .  sob sob sob

Edited April 2 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 .  sob sob sob

Oh dear - i've made you cry again.  Sorry little guy

 

[West]

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

wow - that's a lot of text to basically say "I shouldn't have posted ass porn just because you were right and I was wrong and i coudln't cope"  

Guys this a serious discussion about improving morality and restoring basic foundations to our society. 

No ass porn