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For Trump supporters here, if Trump was caught selling the classified documents he stole, would that change your support for him?


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18 minutes ago, robosmith said:

I don't like LIARS like YOU.

The court of public opinion is a real thing. If Federal prosecutors were as incompetent as you, you MIGHT have a point.

Should I care what you like? 

It's real and its useless like YOU. See what I did there? I'm you NOW. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Should I care what you like? 

You cared enough to write ^this DRIVEL. Which I'll admit it NOT MUCH.

38 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

It's real and its useless like YOU. See what I did there? I'm you NOW. 

If you believe that public opinion is "useless," then you obviously don't understand how ELECTIONS WORK.

$BILLIONS are spent to sway public opinion. Too bad Trump can't compete.

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8 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You cared enough to write ^this DRIVEL. Which I'll admit it NOT MUCH.

If you believe that public opinion is "useless," then you obviously don't understand how ELECTIONS WORK.

$BILLIONS are spent to sway public opinion. Too bad Trump can't compete.

Someone is butt hurt 

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12 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You cared enough to write ^this DRIVEL. Which I'll admit it NOT MUCH.

If you believe that public opinion is "useless," then you obviously don't understand how ELECTIONS WORK.

$BILLIONS are spent to sway public opinion. Too bad Trump can't compete.

Too bad you Democrats are swaying opinion in Trumps favor for him.

Without the political indictments Trump may not of won in the primaries.

Edited by Fluffypants
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1 hour ago, robosmith said:

I don't like LIARS like YOU.

The court of public opinion is a real thing. If Federal prosecutors were as incompetent as you, you MIGHT have a point.

I know you can't help it. 

"12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law   3 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper.  The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions.  The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct.  The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person.  Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law."

Who are the "more than one person" who were affected by trumps supposed fraud? 

 

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/executive-law/exc-sect-63/

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4 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

I know you can't help it. 

"12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law   3 or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper.  The word “fraud” or “fraudulent” as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions.  The term “persistent fraud” or “illegality” as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct.  The term “repeated” as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person.  Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law."

Who are the "more than one person" who were affected by trumps supposed fraud? 

 

https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/executive-law/exc-sect-63/

IF you were paying attention, you'd know the answer to your question was provided by the prosecutor.

Quote

They also disputed the notion that there were no victims, saying Trump's bankers were harmed because they could have charged higher interest on loans if they knew his true net worth was lower than he claimed.

IINM, they've ALSO SAID the taxpayers were harmed by tax fraud due to fraudulent property valuations.

Trump has been a financial fraud for decades

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53 minutes ago, robosmith said:

IF you were paying attention, you'd know the answer to your question was provided by the prosecutor.

IINM, they've ALSO SAID the taxpayers were harmed by tax fraud due to fraudulent property valuations.

Trump has been a financial fraud for decades

They werent harmed since taxpayer money wasnt used. Name the people who were affected. BTW your unhinged rants make me laugh. Thank you 

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18 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

They werent harmed since taxpayer money wasnt used. Name the people who were affected. BTW your unhinged rants make me laugh. Thank you 

Everyone is harmed when FRAUD becomes normalized. It's throwing a monkey wrench into the machinery of commerce.

As is the FACT that you're defending BANK FRAUD. Do you LIE on your loan applications, too?

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7 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Everyone is harmed when FRAUD becomes normalized. It's throwing a monkey wrench into the machinery of commerce.

As is the FACT that you're defending BANK FRAUD. Do you LIE on your loan applications, too?

Tell us who the affected parties are. The law requires that there be parties affected by the fraud. How were they affected? 

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Just now, Yakuda said:

Tell us who the affected parties are. The law requires that there be parties affected by the fraud. How were they affected? 

You're thinking of criminal fraud. This is 'civil fraud' which isn't really fraud at all.  ITs a fineable offense with a very low burden of 'proof'.

The reason they don't need an 'affected party' is that when the law was crafted it was to allow the state to go after people who were genuinely lying to get money even if they paid the money back when they got caught in order to prevent scumbags from using that as a defense. Or if they TRIED to trick the bank they could be pursued even if the bank caught on before they completed the deal.

They've twisted that out of shape here.  The banks were always satisfied that the loans were sufficently covered. They still are. The loans were paid back as per the agreement.  The banks were given every right to verify the info - they really didn't care. The nature of the misinformation was not really relevant as it's such  a unique property it's value can't really be estimated like that

The banks have made it clear that had they know the true numbers nothing would have changed and they'd have leant the same money at the same rates.

SO to claim that trump made his fortune based on these lies is ridiculous. But that is the basis for this fine. It's a witch hunt.

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2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You're thinking of criminal fraud. This is 'civil fraud' which isn't really fraud at all.  ITs a fineable offense with a very low burden of 'proof'.

The reason they don't need an 'affected party' is that when the law was crafted it was to allow the state to go after people who were genuinely lying to get money even if they paid the money back when they got caught in order to prevent scumbags from using that as a defense. Or if they TRIED to trick the bank they could be pursued even if the bank caught on before they completed the deal.

They've twisted that out of shape here.  The banks were always satisfied that the loans were sufficently covered. They still are. The loans were paid back as per the agreement.  The banks were given every right to verify the info - they really didn't care. The nature of the misinformation was not really relevant as it's such  a unique property it's value can't really be estimated like that

The banks have made it clear that had they know the true numbers nothing would have changed and they'd have leant the same money at the same rates.

SO to claim that trump made his fortune based on these lies is ridiculous. But that is the basis for this fine. It's a witch hunt.

Nothing but a witch hunt. 

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17 minutes ago, Yakuda said:

Tell us who the affected parties are. The law requires that there be parties affected by the fraud. How were they affected? 

The prosecutor told you. Can you read?

The FACT is, the judge ruled and convicted. Your OPINION does NOT MATTER.

However, Trump may use your argument in his appeal, and will probably LOSE there, too.

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2 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The prosecutor told you. Can you read?

The FACT is, the judge ruled and convicted. Your OPINION does NOT MATTER.

However, Trump may use your argument in his appeal, and will probably LOSE there, too.

Some agree no parties affected. The banks did their due diligence loaned the money and were repayed. Leftists have raped the justice system. 

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Just now, Yakuda said:

Some agree no parties affected. The banks did their due diligence loaned the money and were repayed. Leftists have raped the justice system. 

Trump is NOT a "leftist" even though he WAS for many years.

The FACT is Trump declared bankruptcy 6 times and left creditors HOLDING THE BAG. 

IOW, what you bought is Trump's LIES.

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6 hours ago, robosmith said:

OTOH, selling classified documents is blatantly illegal.

Before I answer your question, can you please provide the evidence that Trump did sell classified documents?

Is that actually among the 90 plus charges that the deep state has thrown against him?

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2 hours ago, robosmith said:

Trump is NOT a "leftist" even though he WAS for many years.

The FACT is Trump declared bankruptcy 6 times and left creditors HOLDING THE BAG. 

IOW, what you bought is Trump's LIES.

ohh - so this is pumishment for THAT then.  You're saying that to punish him for being a bad person elsewhere they're twisting a law to get him here. 

So it was a witch-hunt after all.  Well at least we agree on that.

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28 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Before I answer your question, can you please provide the evidence that Trump did sell classified documents?

Is that actually among the 90 plus charges that the deep state has thrown against him?

It is hypothetical and I never said otherwise.

However Trump is now desperate for cash, so if he held onto any of those documents, he will likely be MORE tempted to sell them NOW.

The reason I asked is to find out just how brainwashed the MAGA CULT is here. Turns out they are too embarrassed to answer a simple question.

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I think we all know the answer. He's already sold out American interested for personal benefit--more than once. None of them even blinked when he tried to illegally withhold military aid in exchange for campaign favors. 

Edited by Hodad
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1 hour ago, Hodad said:

I think we all know the answer. He's already sold it American interested for presidential benefit. None of them even blinked when he tried to immediately withhold military aid in exchange for campaign favors. 

Well, unlike selling classified info which everyone knows is illegal and very damaging to national security, a lot of people don't know that using official power for campaign advantage is illegal.

It used to be that Congressmen would not even use their office phones to make campaign related phone calls and had to find another facility, but Trump has so thoroughly trashed ethical boundaries, none of them seem to matter anymore.

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20 hours ago, robosmith said:

Well, unlike selling classified info which everyone knows is illegal and very damaging to national security, a lot of people don't know that using official power for campaign advantage is illegal.

It used to be that Congressmen would not even use their office phones to make campaign related phone calls and had to find another facility, but Trump has so thoroughly trashed ethical boundaries, none of them seem to matter anymore.

It used to be the GOP had Ethics and followed them scrupulously but that seemed to end when the Tea Party showed up and began the first vote to overturn Obamacare...which still is so strong in the country that many GOP support it knowing how badly their constituents actually need it running smack into their colleagues who are living on grants from those big companies who used to rake in billions almost unchecked from insurers and the uninsured in unneeded medical "unnecessary tests and treatments" they billed and sent almost bummed I agent to Collections Agent a who jacked up the costs by 4-5 times the original amount, filing liens against baby honest settlements grid true injuries and filing thousands of fake claims on regular people and insured people and it other companies.  

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Just now, Caswell Thomas said:

It used to be the GOP had Ethics and followed them scrupulously but that seemed to end when the Tea Party showed up and began the first vote to overturn Obamacare...which still is so strong in the country that many GOP support it knowing how badly their constituents actually need it running smack into their colleagues who are living on grants from those big companies who used to rake in billions almost unchecked from insurers and the uninsured in unneeded medical "unnecessary tests and treatments" they billed and sent  to Collections Agent s who jacked up the costs by 4-5 times the original amount, filing liens against  honest settlements for injurie settlements in litigated claims, abd some by  filing thousands of fake claims on regular people and insured people and other companies.  The latter are claims brought by corporations setup by Dark Money TO bilk insurers.  

 

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