So-called science has repeatedly erred in making false claims.

[French Patriot]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

I will stick with God's counsel i

Nothing quite like the council of a genocidal LGBTQ+ hating God.

 

[herbie]

Reason? You expect that from someone who quotes the contents of a book to verify the truth of that same book.

Yeah, the sky is blue because it is the sky.

[blackbird]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:55 AM, herbie said:

Reason? You expect that from someone who quotes the contents of a book to verify the truth of that same book.

Yeah, the sky is blue because it is the sky.

You need to go to this link and read this article, but I won't hold my breath. 

quote

Judges 19: Lessons for When a Society Rejects God’s Word

Here, God reveals seven consequences to a society when it rejects His Word and His morality as sovereign.

First, when God’s Word becomes unpopular with the people, many leaders will sadly abandon Him as well. Without godly leaders, the people will then descend further into sin. 

1. When the People Abandon God, Most Leaders Will Do So as Well. Judges 19:1(a).

The importance of godly leaders in restraining sin. Satan’s goal has always been to break down authority through rebellion. His goal is to create chaos and misery by causing people to turn away from God. Satan first led a third of the angels in rebellion against God’s rule (Rev. 12:3-9). He then led Eve to rebel against God’s rules (Gen. 3:1-4). He then led Adam and Eve to rebel against each other (Gen 3:16). All of Satan’s 12 rebellions in the wilderness sought to depose Moses as the leader of the Jews. Satan tries to make us rebel against God’s institutions of authority. In quoting a prophecy, Jesus revealed what happens when we submit to Satan’s attempts to make us rebel: “I will strike down the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.” (Mk. 14:23). Here, the sheep became scattered because they no longer wanted to hear from their shepherd. Without a godly shepherd, the sheep descended further into sin. Thus, godly leaders need brave citizens who are willing to reject public opinion to follow them. Will you be one?

2. The Family Order will Break Down. Judges 19:1(b)-2.

 If Satan’s first attack in the garden of Eden caused Adam and Eve to rebel against God, his second attack was to set Adam and Eve against each other (Gen. 3:15). He follows the same plan of attack today. First, he causes people to rebel against God’s standards of morality. Once they reject His standards, Satan then attacks the family. We can see this unfold in the relationship between the Levite and his concubine. Neither followed God’s Law, and they both suffered because of their decisions. The Levite gave into coveting by taking a concubine. By doing so he violated God’s Tenth Commandment (Ex. 20:17; Dt. 5:21). As a Levite, he was also called upon to be holy as an example for others to follow (Lev. 11:44; 19:2). Unhappy in her status as a legal mistress, the woman turned to adultery. Yet, in doing so, she violated God’s Seventh Commandment against adultery (Ex. 20:14; Dt. 5:18). Their unhappiness is a warning to believers today as well. If you reject God’s standards of morality, you will open your family to Satan’s attacks and the misery that will follow.

3. God’s Places of Refuge Will be Limited for Those in Need. Judges 19:3-13.

When unrepentant sin runs unchecked, God will lift His hedge of protection. God can be a shield to those who take refuge in Him (Prov. 30:5; 2 Sam. 22:31). Yet, when a nation turns from Him, His shield of protection will be removed (Lev. 26:14-39; Dt. 28:15-68). These lessons apply today as well. If the western world will not turn back to God, He will not bless the nations with his hedge of protection against evil. Like a person without a roof over their home, the people will be exposed to all the attacks of the evil one.

4. Most People will Become Self-Centered and Inhospitable. Judges 19:14-21.

The Benjamites dishonored God by failing to show compassion and help the Levite. Their lack of compassion provides a warning to believers today. In the end times, the people will care only about themselves. They will show no compassion for the helpless: “For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,” (2 Tim. 3:2).

5. Same Sex Acts Will Become Rampant. Judges 19:22-24.

6. Sexual Violence will Become Rampant. Judges 19:25-26.

7. Society Will Become Numb to Its Sins. Judges 19:27-30.

A nation that tolerates sin is spiritually blind and will also tear itself apart. The deceased concubine is like the body of Christ when it tolerates sin, and fails to repent and seek refuge in God. Like the people of Sodom, Gomorrah, and Gibeah, society has become numb to the pervasive sexual sins throughout it. This is also one of the signs of the end times: “Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts,” (2 Pet. 3:3). “In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” (Jude 1:18(b)). “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,” (1 Tim. 4:1). When society embraces the desires of the flesh over God’s morality, it becomes spiritually blind:

 When society becomes spiritually blind and tolerates sin, it will also tear itself apart like the body of the concubine. Pornography, rape, adultery, fornication, and sex outside of marriage have all lost their stigma. Society no longer is shocked or even offended by these sins. Are you willing to stand up for God’s standards of sexual morality, even when you are ridiculed for doing so? (Ro. 1:16).

Judges 19: Lessons for When a Society Rejects God’s Word (inspiredscripture.com)

•  

[phoenyx75]

On 3/18/2024 at 4:17 AM, blackbird said:

The theory of evolution has become absolute gospel truth the past 150 or so years.  But it has been refuted by a number of scientists.

Now the so called "dark matter" in the universe has just been refuted or called into question.

"We’ve long been told that mysterious dark matter makes up the bulk of our universe.

And yet, a new study suggests that this is not – and, indeed, cannot – be true.

The research, published in The Astrophysical Journal, challenges our current understanding of the cosmos by suggesting there’s simply no room for dark matter."

There may be no dark matter in our universe after all (msn.com)

This just goes to prove that much of what is called science is not really science at all.

I'm not sure if dark matter exists, but as you pointed out, scientists acknowledge that it may not exist. There are other mainstream things that certainly -claim- to be backed by science, such as virology, but in that particular case, I'd say that virology simply isn't backed up by science. Several doctors (or former doctors, medical boards tend to take away the licenses of doctors who dare to question and/or disagree with virology in public) wrote and signed a statement as to why they no longer believe in biological viruses here:

https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/

I do believe that evolution is real though. I think that evolutionary biological Richard Dawkins has made some very good arguments as to why it's real. I personally read and really liked his first book which deals extensively with evolution called The Selfish Gene. Wikipedia has a page on it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene

Up until the 60s, evolutionary theories focused on the group or the individual. Wikipedia explains:

**

Dawkins uses the term "selfish gene" as a way of expressing the gene-centred view of evolution (as opposed to the views focused on the organism and the group), popularising ideas developed during the 1960s by W. D. Hamilton and others. From the gene-centred view, it follows that the more two individuals are genetically related, the more sense (at the level of the genes) it makes for them to behave cooperatively with each other.

**

[CITIZEN_2015]

Science has repeatedly proven evolution and the fact that humans evolved from monkeys over millions of years. Human existence is less than 200 thousands years in close to 15 billion years since universe exists. Evolution does not reject creation but What religious books are claiming like creation of Adam and Eve or earth created six thousand years ago are proven wrong. 

[herbie]

Allegory is beyond the mental abilities of a lot of True Believers.

[blackbird]

On 5/23/2024 at 10:19 PM, phoenyx75 said:

I do believe that evolution is real though.

I am sorry I missed your comment which was some time ago.  I just discovered it.  Don't know why I didn't see it.

"On evolution and fraud

Why is evolutionary theory so full of deliberate frauds?"

Evolution fraud (creation.com)

I believe what the Bible says.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."  Genesis 1:1 KJV   This is the first verse in the Bible.  If you read further you will find that God created everything in six days, including Adam and Eve.   This precludes evolution.

I believe the complexity of humans and all life, including the basic cell, is so complex that it required a designer-creator we call God.  The vast amount of information in the cell in the form of long strings of data had to have someone put it there.  The laws of physics which govern how everything operates in the universe is another thing that required a designer in the first place.

Edited July 14 by blackbird

[blackbird]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:58 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Science has repeatedly proven evolution

No, it has not proven evolution.  Read some of the articles or watch some videos on creation.com website.  It is only a theory which has been rejected by many, including some scientists.

Evolution has never been repeated.  It is only a theory of how things came to be over a long period of time.  But nobody was there to observe it.  There is nothing to prove it ever happened as claimed.

Evolution fraud (creation.com)

Edited July 14 by blackbird

[blackbird]

"The ape-to-human progression: the most common evolution icon is a fraud."

"Darwin suggested an unbroken evolutionary chain of life from simple molecules, such as ammonia, water, and phosphoric salts, to humans.1 The chain analogy gave birth to the idea of missing links in the chain, an analogy still used today to describe the fact that, instead of a chain, what the fossil record shows is many groups of life-forms with large gaps in the supposed chain between them.2 Nonetheless, the so-called “great chain of being” is still presented as fact and, given enough time, more fossil discoveries are all that is needed to locate the many missing links evolutionists believe exist. They are there, or were there; we just need to find evidence of them. Every now and then, a “missing link” discovery claim is made, reinforcing this belief.2 The progression chain By far the most famous icon of evolution—seen everywhere from book covers to magazine articles to cartoons—is a drawing depicting part of this chain, namely human evolution from a primitive, stooping ape-like creature progressing to a modern human. The progression is usually pictured in four to six steps, but as many as 30 are sometimes shown. One of the earliest examples of the chain was completed by Brooklyn College paleontologist Eric Schlaikjer. His rendition shows 30 links from fish to amphibians, reptiles, mammals, primates, and, at the top of the evolutionary progression, modern humans (figure 1).3 The scenario pictured is very different from that proposed today, but does include some animals still touted as evolutionary links, such as Seymouria. Of note is the fact that, according to this chart, the primate common ancestor of humans is a modern ape, and the first human looks very much like a modern man, except that he is pictured with an Einstein-like hairstyle and slight Neandertal facial traits. A clear gap is shown to exist between apes and humans. Also, one could line up living animals and produce a progression very close the one pictured by Schlaikjer."

For the whole article:

j23_3_16-20.pdf (creation.com)

[CITIZEN_2015]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

No, it has not proven evolution.  Read some of the articles or watch some videos on creation.com website.  It is only a theory which has been rejected by many, including some scientists.

Evolution has never been repeated.  It is only a theory of how things came to be over a long period of time.  But nobody was there to observe it.  There is nothing to prove it ever happened as claimed.

Evolution fraud (creation.com)

All the archaeological discoveries points to evolution of humans, not creation as Adam and Eve. Beside, science has answer to most questions as the origin of universe. Between science and fiction, I choose science. That said evolution does not necessarily contradict creation. Just not as Adam anf Eve.

Edited July 14 by CITIZEN_2015

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

All the archaeological discoveries points to evolution of humans,

That is not true.  You love to make things up.  No archaeological discoveries prove evolution occurred.

If evolution were true, the fossil record would be filled with fossils that show the evolution of one species to another species.  But they don't exist.  If is false to go around claiming it is proven or a fact.

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

That is not true.  You love to make things up.  No archaeological discoveries prove evolution occurred.

If evolution were true, the fossil record would be filled with fossils that show the evolution of one species to another species.  But they don't exist.  If is false to go around claiming it is proven or a fact.

They do exist.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

They do exist.

"The ape-to-human progression: the most common evolution icon is a fraud -Jerry Bergman.

A review of the most published modern pictorial icon of evolution shows that it is fraudulent and based on known inaccuracies and false information. This icon also has racist roots and is an extension of the once common, often distorted comparisons found in both scientific publications and popular literature, of ape, African and Caucasian heads."

j23_3_16-20.pdf (creation.com)

[CITIZEN_2015]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

"The ape-to-human progression: the most common evolution icon is a fraud -Jerry Bergman.

A review of the most published modern pictorial icon of evolution shows that it is fraudulent and based on known inaccuracies and false information. This icon also has racist roots and is an extension of the once common, often distorted comparisons found in both scientific publications and popular literature, of ape, African and Caucasian heads."

j23_3_16-20.pdf (creation.com)

Not true. Evolution is scientifically proven. The origin of universe is a theory but the evolution on earth is a proven fact. This is not in contradiction to creation. Like billions of factors had to be precisely fine tuned in order for life on earth to start and evolved over 4.5 billions of years. All that cannot be just accidental. A supreme super power must have been there to fine tuned billions of very unlikely factors.

So what do you say? That earth was created 6000 years ago and humans were created as Adam and Eve because bible says so?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So what do you say? That earth was created 6000 years ago and humans were created as Adam and Eve because bible says so?

Of course.  The Holy Scripture says God created everything in six days.  It doesn't give the exact dates or time period when it happened, but theologians estimate it was approximately six thousand years ago.  To find out how this happened, read Genesis ch. 1.

The Bible was written by men who were inspired by God.  "16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."  2 Timothy 3:16, 17 KJV

I accept what God says as fact.  Opposing God is a losing proposition.

You say evolution is scientifically proven, but you gave no proof at all.  It is pure human speculation based on assumptions.

The fact is it is a complex subject and if you want to know something about it you need to spend some time studying the arguments.

Here is a creation scientist view from part of his book.  If you just want to go around spouting evolution is a fact without knowing what you are talking about, that is your choice.  There is a lot of information which refutes the claim.  This article is just one small aspect of the subject.

Refuting Evolution chapter 2: Variation and natural selection versus evolution (creation.com)

[CITIZEN_2015]

God did not write bible. Men did. If you believe universe was created in 6 days and earth was created just 6000 years ago then really I am speaking with a religious fanatic who is blindly believes in anything because bible said so.

[Matthew]

On 5/24/2024 at 1:19 AM, phoenyx75 said:

virology simply isn't backed up by science

So you don't believe viruses exist, or you don't believe viruses are scientifically studied?

[phoenyx75]

4 hours ago, Matthew said:

So you don't believe viruses exist, or you don't believe viruses are scientifically studied?

I don't believe viruses exist, in the way they are defined. That being: 

“A small parasite consisting of nucleic acid (RNA or DNA) enclosed in a protein coat that can replicate only in a susceptible host cell.”1

To give an example, I believe that bacteriophages exist, but not that they are parasites. Interestingly, I read that bacteriophages were not originally defined as viruses either, that came later. It took me a year to "unlearn" the notion that viruses exist. I was helped along the way by a group of doctors and other professionals who came to this conclusion before me. They wrote a 2 page statement that proposes a way to test whether or not biological viruses exist. It can be seen here:

https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/

[blackbird]

22 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

God did not write bible. Men did.

Men wrote the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God.

quote

HOW DO WE KNOW THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD?

Why the Bible Is So Special – Question 14

In both testaments, the Bible claims to be God’s communication to humanity; the only divine revelation from the one true God. But is this claim true? How do we know the Bible is what it claims to be—the Word of God?

There Are Two Basic Approaches to This Question

There are two different approaches that are taken when it comes to arguing for the Bible being the Word of God. First, there are those who believe that the Scripture is self-authenticating. The Bible is true because it says it is true, and the Holy Spirit bears witness to this truth. No other argument is necessary.

A second approach believes that the claims of Scripture have sufficient evidence to back them up. Those who hold this view believe there is overwhelming evidence to convince anyone that the Bible is what it claims to be—the Word of God. People, therefore, need to check out the evidence; not merely blindly believe the claims of Scripture.

We can summarize the two approaches as follows:

Approach 1: the Bible Is Self-Authenticating

To many people, the issue of the Bible’s authority is something that should not be debated. The authority of the Bible must be believed because the Scripture says so. This is usually argued in the following ways:

1. THE BIBLE CLAIMS TO BE GOD’S WORD: NO OTHER TESTIMONY IS NECESSARY

The Bible should be allowed to speak for itself. It clearly claims to be God’s Word. It doesn’t need defending. If we attempt to defend the Bible, then we are placing some other standard as the ultimate judge. Whether it is scientific or historical accuracy, human reasoning or some other standard, what we are doing is placing Scripture under that standard. What Scripture says should be our ultimate standard and everything should be judged by its claims; it should be judged by no one.

There is something else. The problem with providing evidence for the Bible is that human beings are both sinful and finite. They must still evaluate any evidence offered for the truthfulness of the Christian faith. Again, it places some sort of human standard as the final authority. Evidence gathered from other sources may be useful, but it has nothing convincing to say about the truth of Christianity.

2. THE BIBLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TESTIFY ON ITS OWN BEHALF

In a court of law, people have a right to testify on their own behalf. Since the Bible is the Word of God, the Author, God, should be allowed to testify to what sort of Book the Bible is. This is particularly true because the Bible says that God cannot lie. His testimony should be received as final.

3. THE WITNESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DEMONSTRATES THE TRUTHFULNESS OF SCRIPTURE

However, the Bible does more than merely claim to be God’s Word. The witness of the Spirit shows the reader that the Bible is the Word of God. When the truths of the Bible are personally applied, the credibility of the Bible is demonstrated. Paul wrote:

 "2  Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3  Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart."  2 Corinthians 3:2

Paul said that people would see the truths of the Word of God at work in the lives of God’s people. This was its testimony. When the truths are lived out in one’s life, we find that they work.

As people read the Bible, they find the Holy Spirit giving confirmation that what they are reading is God’s Word. Therefore, we not only have the claim of Scripture, we also have the witness of the Holy Spirit that the things written in Scripture are true.  unquote

How Do We Know the Bible Is the Word of God? by Don Stewart (blueletterbible.org)

How We Got the Bible | Desiring God

Where did the Bible come from? How did we get the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

[Matthew]

17 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

I don't believe viruses exist, in the way they are defined. That being: 

“A small parasite consisting of nucleic acid (RNA or DNA) enclosed in a protein coat that can replicate only in a susceptible host cell.”

So in a straightforward situation where a virus is isolated to the point that its dna can be sequenced and its structures studied with an electron microscope, what do you think is happening?

[phoenyx75]

13 hours ago, Matthew said:

So in a straightforward situation where a virus is isolated to the point that its dna can be sequenced and its structures studied with an electron microscope, what do you think is happening?

 

The argument that the doctors and other professionals make is that biological viruses have never truly been isolated. From the 2 page statement that I referenced earlier:

**

Perhaps the primary evidence that the pathogenic viral theory is problematic is that no published scientific paper has ever shown that particles fulfilling the definition of viruses have been directly isolated and purified from any tissues or bodily fluids of any sick human or animal. Using the commonly accepted definition of “isolation”, which is the separation of one thing from all other things, there is general agreement that this has never been done in the history of virology. Particles that have been successfully isolated through purification have not been shown to be replication-competent, infectious and disease-causing, hence they cannot be said to be viruses. Additionally, the proffered “evidence” of viruses through “genomes" and animal experiments derives from methodologies with insufficient controls.

**

 

Full statement:

https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/

[French Patriot]

On 7/16/2024 at 1:58 PM, blackbird said:

As people read the Bible, they find the Holy Spirit giving confirmation that what they are reading is God’s Word

Why then does God's Word say that to increase our wisdom, we have to get away from foolish Christian thinking and God's Word?

Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

 

[blackbird]

The theory of evolution, which is unproven, is a good example of a massive failure of science and the unending consequences.

This link gives a number of examples of where science has been wrong or faulty.  

"Piltdown Chicken

The finding was initially trumpeted as the missing link that proved birds evolved from dinosaurs. In 1999 a fossil smuggled out of China allegedly showing a dinosaur with birdlike plumage was displayed triumphantly at the National Geographic Society and written up in the society's November magazine.

Paleontologists were abuzz. Unfortunately, like the hominid skull with an ape jaw discovered in the Piltdown quarries of England in 1912, the whole thing turned out to be a hoax. The fossil apparently was the flight of fancy of a Chinese farmer who had rigged together bird bits and a meat-eater's tail."

20 of the Greatest Blunders in Science in the Last 20 Years | Discover Magazine

[Matthew]

On 7/17/2024 at 8:49 AM, phoenyx75 said:

 

The argument that the doctors and other professionals make is that biological viruses have never truly been isolated. From the 2 page statement that I referenced earlier:

**

Perhaps the primary evidence that the pathogenic viral theory is problematic is that no published scientific paper has ever shown that particles fulfilling the definition of viruses have been directly isolated and purified from any tissues or bodily fluids of any sick human or animal. Using the commonly accepted definition of “isolation”, which is the separation of one thing from all other things, there is general agreement that this has never been done in the history of virology. Particles that have been successfully isolated through purification have not been shown to be replication-competent, infectious and disease-causing, hence they cannot be said to be viruses. Additionally, the proffered “evidence” of viruses through “genomes" and animal experiments derives from methodologies with insufficient controls.

**

 

Full statement:

https://drsambailey.com/resources/settling-the-virus-debate/

She's making what appears to be a weak semantic argument based on a strict interpretation of the word "isolate."

Again, they have mapped the entire genome of many viruses, which makes that entire argument completely irrelevant.

[phoenyx75]

3 hours ago, Matthew said:

She's making what appears to be a weak semantic argument based on a strict interpretation of the word "isolate."

Again, they have mapped the entire genome of many viruses, which makes that entire argument completely irrelevant.

 

I've decided that this subject deserves its own thread and so have made one in the Health, Science and Technology forum. I've responded to your post in said thread, here specifically: