Yakuda Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 Mark 16:15-16 Then he said to them, "Go forth into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. It would seem Jesus is pretty clear and straightforward. 1 Quote
TreeBeard Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 Every religious person thinks they’re saved. 1 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Every religious person thinks they’re saved. salvation is not by acts, but by faith alone to walk upon the road to Calvary Hill at Golgotha with the Nazarene is the ultimate reward unto itself feel good, do good, good things happen miraculous things soul making machines from this world unto the next the light over Damascus is the light of civilization itself 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 3 hours ago, Yakuda said: Mark 16:15-16 Then he said to them, "Go forth into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. It would seem Jesus is pretty clear and straightforward. "Get thee up into the top of Pisgah, and lift up thine eyes westward, and northward, and southward, and eastward, and behold it with thine eyes: for thou shalt not go over this Jordan." ~ Deuteronomy 3:27 KJV Quote
Yakuda Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 17 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Every religious person thinks they’re saved. So what? 14 hours ago, Dougie93 said: salvation is not by acts, but by faith alone to walk upon the road to Calvary Hill at Golgotha with the Nazarene is the ultimate reward unto itself feel good, do good, good things happen miraculous things soul making machines from this world unto the next the light over Damascus is the light of civilization itself Where does Scripture say you are saved by faith alone. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 5 hours ago, Yakuda said: So what? Where does Scripture say you are saved by faith alone. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." Quote
Yakuda Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Ephesians 2: 8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." First that doesnt faith alone. Next V10 says, For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for a life of good works that God has prepared for us to do. Quote
Yakuda Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." But we are created ,for a life of good WORKS that God has prepared for us. Rote recitation of memorized passages wont help you friend. You think this is my first time talking to a pre programmed protestant? Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Yakuda said: First that doesnt faith alone. Next V10 says, For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for a life of good works that God has prepared for us to do. Saul becomes Paul when he sees the light over Damascus Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Yakuda said: You think this is my first time talking to a pre programmed protestant? molon labe Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, Yakuda said: Rote recitation of memorized passages wont help you friend. no worries He is not in a book the Nazarene walks amongst us Deus ex machina 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 43 minutes ago, Yakuda said: But we are created ,for a life of good WORKS that God has prepared for us. you asked a question about scripture I answered your question Lord knows I am a sinner Israel means : those who struggle with God Quote
French Patriot Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 On 1/18/2024 at 3:52 PM, Yakuda said: Mark 16:15-16 Then he said to them, "Go forth into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. It would seem Jesus is pretty clear and straightforward. Not when you consider the immoral implications. Can you take the reality on Jesus dying for Christians, from a moral perspective? It takes quite an imagination and ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place. Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card. It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral. Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: There is no way that Christians parents would teach their children to use a scapegoat. Good morals and Jesus speak against the messianic concept and bids us pick up our crosses and follow him. On 1/18/2024 at 3:55 PM, TreeBeard said: Every religious person thinks they’re saved. Way too many think they need to kiss the rear of a genocidal Yahweh and his Armageddon loving son Jesus. Quote
French Patriot Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 21 hours ago, Dougie93 said: salvation is not by acts, but by faith alone Not to be picky, but if I choose faith over facts, it is an act of my mind. A very poor act that breeds inquisitions and jihads instead of decent apologetics. Quote
Yakuda Posted January 19 Author Report Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: you asked a question about scripture I answered your question Lord knows I am a sinner Israel means : those who struggle with God The word "works" appears in many passages but context dicates what kind of "works" save ans which dont. The problem with people who abuse Scripture is they think everything is an either or proposition. It isn't. Quote
Yakuda Posted January 22 Author Report Posted January 22 On 1/19/2024 at 2:53 PM, Dougie93 said: Saul becomes Paul when he sees the light over Damascus So you prefer to ignore what you don't like. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 22 Report Posted January 22 8 hours ago, Yakuda said: So you prefer to ignore what you don't like. the story illustrates how salvation is not by works, but rather by faith alone as Saul of Tarsus was a mass murdering zealot sent to scourge the Christians yet upon divine intervention by seeing the light over Damascus he was transformed into Paul the Apostle Quote
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: the story illustrates how salvation is not by works, but rather by faith alone It is a work for the mind to choose faith over facts or whatever the old belief was. I am French, but I believe that English to ,be correct. Have faith in that fact. Quote
Yakuda Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, French Patriot said: It is a work for the mind to choose faith over facts or whatever the old belief was. I am French, but I believe that English to ,be correct. Have faith in that fact. There is no faith alone. Why are you making things up? "Faith alone" appears only one place in the Bible and it is preceded by ...we are not saved by.... It's amazing Quote
Yakuda Posted January 23 Author Report Posted January 23 2 hours ago, French Patriot said: It is a work for the mind to choose faith over facts or whatever the old belief was. I am French, but I believe that English to ,be correct. Have faith in that fact. In a way you are right. Believing is a work. So does Jesus save us or does our belief in him save us? Thats why faith alone isnt enough. It must have works to be alive Quote
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 16 hours ago, Yakuda said: There is no faith alone. Why are you making things up? "Faith alone" appears only one place in the Bible and it is preceded by ...we are not saved by.... It's amazing Having faith is a work of the mind, stupid, so there is no such thing as by faith without works. Learn English before trying to make points. Quote
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 16 hours ago, Yakuda said: In a way you are right. Believing is a work. So does Jesus save us or does our belief in him save us? Thats why faith alone isnt enough. It must have works to be alive What makes you think Jesus saves us when scriptures say that none of us are ever lost to God? Do I need to biblically educate you, or can you do your own research? Quote
blackbird Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 (edited) 17 hours ago, Yakuda said: There is no faith alone. Why are you making things up? "Faith alone" appears only one place in the Bible and it is preceded by ...we are not saved by.... It's amazing One place???? After I gave you lots of verses showing it is by grace through faith alone. Forgive me. I just had to refute your blatant false claim. Read the Epistle to the Galatians. If is full of rebuke to those who make your claim. From what Paul says you are under a curse or anathema for adding works to faith for salvation. Edited January 23 by blackbird Quote
French Patriot Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 16 minutes ago, blackbird said: One place???? After I gave you lots of verses showing it is by grace through faith alone. Forgive me. I just had to refute your blatant false claim. Read the Epistle to the Galatians. If is full of rebuke to those who make your claim. From what Paul says you are under a curse or anathema for adding works to faith for salvation. I agree with you on grace. God controls whether one will believe or not and thus God damns whoever he wants. Regardless of the scriptures that say he does not lose any souls. Are non-believers doomed by Divine Design? Scriptures say that God decides if a person will be a believer or non-believer. Those scriptures are shown in this link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byHYeHN4ZUQ Those quotes seem to really screw up the free will notion that Christians say God gives us. The free will that God offers is kind of a joke anyway given the number of people whose free will to live is ignored in the billions of adults, children and babies that God is shown to torture and murder in scriptures. If the bible and Yahweh are to be believed, and as a non-believer, I, of course, cannot believe it, thanks to God, by God’s design and will against me, then why did God deny me belief or faith? Even more important to believers, might be to answer the question of; did God make you a believer in things that you can only hope exists and can never confirm? Are you happy with God ignoring or negating your free will to think as you please? I have assumed that God’s work of creating both believers and non-believers is working. If that is so, and you believers must think it so, just as I as a non-believer cannot think it is working, --- and Jesus said that those with faith could do all he did and more, --- then there is not even one believer or person of faith that has ever existed. Either the bible and Christianity is all a lie, or there must be some who can do what Jesus did. What is your choice of those two options? Is the bible and Christianity a lie, or is God just not creating any people with faith, --- which would make all Christians who say they have faith, --- liars. I mean no insult here but someone is definitely lying, if we read what is written and look at reality and listen to Christians. What do you think is the truth? Is it just for God to create people doomed to hell even if they wanted to believe? Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 23 Report Posted January 23 21 hours ago, French Patriot said: It is a work for the mind to choose faith over facts or whatever the old belief was. I am French, but I believe that English to ,be correct. Have faith in that fact. I'm not English I'm an Ulster Scot 1 Quote
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