God Bless Bishop Strickland: America’s Bishop

[Zeitgeist]

Every now and then a figure comes along who calls bullshit on the deception and injustice in the world, but is persecuted for doing the right things.  Today in the Catholic Church that’s Bishop Strickland.

 

[Queenmandy85]

What is he accused of? The only references I could find involved financial issues and unexplained doctrinal positions. Since the Roman Catholic Church is basically an absolute Monarchy, the bishop doesn't have any recourse. He did say he believes Pope Francis is Pope. duh. Perhaps he is suffering from some kind of breakdown. Could you provide more information? I never click on unknown links.

[herbie]

He thinks the Church has become too woke and must return to it's 11th Century fun dumb mental ways. Criticized his Boss which usually gets anyone fired.

[TreeBeard]

What I don’t get is how @Zeitgeist determined that the Pope is bad and wasn’t sent by God to make these changes to the church?  
 

The Pope is supposed to be infallible and speak the word of God.  So how does one tell when that isn’t happening any longer?  When one disagrees?

[Zeitgeist]

18 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What I don’t get is how @Zeitgeist determined that the Pope is bad and wasn’t sent by God to make these changes to the church?  
 

The Pope is supposed to be infallible and speak the word of God.  So how does one tell when that isn’t happening any longer?  When one disagrees?

There have been illegitimate popes in the past, including during the papacy in Avignon.  The Medicis also hijacked the papacy for a while.  I’m not sure Francis supports the Catholic Church, as anyone who adheres to the Catechism seems to be under attack.  What did Bill Maher say about Francis?  “I can’t prove Pope Francis is an atheist, but I know it’s true.”

He is still holding the office.  His messages are confusing and seem to contradict Catholic theology.  He’s not called Red Francis for nothing.  He’s also cancelling a lot of respected clergy and elevated dubious ones.  He doesn’t like traditional clergy.  Anyway, make your own judgements.  I’m guessing you’re not Catholic and this is all a big joke to you anyway.  Think as you choose.

The woke cultural revolution continues, and Francis seems to be one of its leaders.  Inclusion and climate change are the new creed.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

21 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What is he accused of? The only references I could find involved financial issues and unexplained doctrinal positions. Since the Roman Catholic Church is basically an absolute Monarchy, the bishop doesn't have any recourse. He did say he believes Pope Francis is Pope. duh. Perhaps he is suffering from some kind of breakdown. Could you provide more information? I never click on unknown links.

Thank you for your constructive response.  Strickland is an Athenaceaus of the modern church.  He is being persecuted for being Catholic by “Catholic” leaders.  He isn’t the first and won’t be the last.  We’re seeing this trend in Catholic education as well.  Francis is popular in secular circles.  He gets the support of governments and appears to support leaders who clearly violate Catholic values.  Anyway, make your own judgements.  

Edited November 18, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

The woke cultural revolution continues, and Francis seems to be one of its leaders.  Inclusion and climate change are the new creed.

How do you know God didn’t place him there to show Catholics the true way?

[Zeitgeist]

17 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How do you know God didn’t place him there to show Catholics the true way?

When 2000 years of rules reaffirmed by almost all popes are suddenly undone in a few short years, respected clergy are cancelled, dubious people are elevated, wars ensue, people are lost, mixed messages abound, laypeople are given votes while bishops are excluded in a new sketchy synod, and the Pope himself says that dark forces are inside the Vatican. How do you discern anything?  Anyway, you’re not Catholic or even religious, so it’s all BS in your eyes and you don’t appear conversant in matters of theology.  Feel free to take shots if it feeds your ego.  

17 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

How do you know God didn’t place him there to show Catholics the true way?

Like Xi?  Biden?  Trudeau?   Lol. Also, read the histories of Bergolio’s assent.  It’s interesting.  Also interesting is how Benedict appears to have been pushed out.  Ratzinger was a respected theologian.  I remember reading his work long before he became Pope.  Read and research. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[TreeBeard]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:18 AM, Zeitgeist said:

When 2000 years of rules

You think the church is exactly the same as 2000 years ago?  What rules are you referring to?

 

On 11/18/2023 at 10:18 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Like Xi?  Biden?  Trudeau?

Who said anything about those guys?

My question again….  How did you determine the Pope wasn’t placed there by God?  If it’s just a political system, then just say so.  We can leave God out of it completely.  But then the doctrine would go out the window too…. 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You think the church is exactly the same as 2000 years ago?  What rules are you referring to?

 

Who said anything about those guys?

My question again….  How did you determine the Pope wasn’t placed there by God?  If it’s just a political system, then just say so.  We can leave God out of it completely.  But then the doctrine would go out the window too…. 

How did you form opinions on these matters? Are you Catholic? Are you Christian? Are you religious? If you’re just looking to stir the pot like a pro choice heckler at a pro life march, I’m not biting. I’ll grant you this, the Church is very politicized right now.

[Zeitgeist]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:01 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

What is he accused of? The only references I could find involved financial issues and unexplained doctrinal positions. Since the Roman Catholic Church is basically an absolute Monarchy, the bishop doesn't have any recourse. He did say he believes Pope Francis is Pope. duh. Perhaps he is suffering from some kind of breakdown. Could you provide more information? I never click on unknown links.

This might help provide context.  

[TreeBeard]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

How did you form opinions on these matters? Are you Catholic? Are you Christian? Are you religious? If you’re just looking to stir the pot like a pro choice heckler at a pro life march, I’m not biting. I’ll grant you this, the Church is very politicized right now.

No skin off my back if you refuse to discuss. 

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

No skin off my back if you refuse to discuss. 

In order to have a discussion you must bring arguments supported by evidence, or at least damn convincing arguments. Also, religion is fundamentally a matter of faith.  If you don’t believe, that ends the conversation.

Your arguments are always nihilistic and Marxist.  I disagree with your assumptions about the world, so why would I engage with you on the Catholic Catechism?  You should bring your arguments to Sartre Weekly or The New Marxist to argue the finer points of the revolution. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Leaving doctrine aside, the Catholic Church is a hierarchical organization and I don’t know if you can diss your boss like this and be surprised if he takes action. Praising a description like ‘diabolically disoriented clown’ leaves little room for debate. 

https://wherepeteris.com/bishop-praises-video-calling-pope-diabolically-disoriented-clown/

https://www.ncronline.org/news/pope-francis-axes-firebrand-texas-bishop-strickland-darling-right-wing-twitter

https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/guest-voices/joseph-strickland-was-my-bishop-heres-why-he-had-go

And his friend Father Altman is a real live wire:

https://www.ncregister.com/news/controversial-la-crosse-priest-father-altman-to-challenge-bishops-request-to-resign

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[TreeBeard]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

In order to have a discussion you must bring arguments supported by evidence, or at least damn convincing arguments.

What exactly was I claiming?  You’re the one who claimed the Pope isn’t legitimate.  I was asking how you knew that.  
 

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Also, religion is fundamentally a matter of faith.  If you don’t believe, that ends the conversation.

So, you have faith that the Pope wasn’t actually God’s representative here on Earth?   Is it just a gut feeling?  He’s too far “left”, therefore you have faith that he’s not a legitimate Pope?

 

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Your arguments are always nihilistic and Marxist.  I disagree with your assumptions about the world, so why would I engage with you on the Catholic Catechism?

I guess because this is the part of the forum about religious topics?   You didn’t make your post to argue the finer points of Catholicism with a group of bishops.  You posted it at this particular discussion forum knowing who the membership was.  I’m one of the few who bothered to engage in the topic.    

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What exactly was I claiming?  You’re the one who claimed the Pope isn’t legitimate.  I was asking how you knew that.  
 

So, you have faith that the Pope wasn’t actually God’s representative here on Earth?   Is it just a gut feeling?  He’s too far “left”, therefore you have faith that he’s not a legitimate Pope?

 

I guess because this is the part of the forum about religious topics?   You didn’t make your post to argue the finer points of Catholicism with a group of bishops.  You posted it at this particular discussion forum knowing who the membership was.  I’m one of the few who bothered to engage in the topic.    

But your point of entry into the discussion is shallow.  First dig into the details to see why the Pope is being questioned.  The details are compelling in and of themselves.  I can’t debate someone who doesn’t have a basic frame of reference.  I agree that all of this is somewhat inside-baseball for non-Catholics, but the thread is fair game in a Religion forum.  

 

14 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Leaving doctrine aside, the Catholic Church is a hierarchical organization and I don’t know if you can diss your boss like this and be surprised if he takes action. Praising a description like ‘diabolically disoriented clown’ leaves little room for debate. 

https://wherepeteris.com/bishop-praises-video-calling-pope-diabolically-disoriented-clown/

https://www.ncronline.org/news/pope-francis-axes-firebrand-texas-bishop-strickland-darling-right-wing-twitter

https://www.ncronline.org/opinion/guest-voices/joseph-strickland-was-my-bishop-heres-why-he-had-go

And his friend Father Altman is a real live wire:

https://www.ncregister.com/news/controversial-la-crosse-priest-father-altman-to-challenge-bishops-request-to-resign

 

Fr. Altman is not Bishop Strickland.  

[Zeitgeist]

Thoughtful commentary on what’s unfolding:

 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

But your point of entry into the discussion is shallow.  First dig into the details to see why the Pope is being questioned.

You can’t put it into a few sentences?  lol

You’re exactly like the other religious poster here who copies and pastes sermons from religious websites, except you copy and paste YouTube videos.  
 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, TreeBeard said:

You can’t put it into a few sentences?  lol

You’re exactly like the other religious poster here who copies and pastes sermons from religious websites, except you copy and paste YouTube videos.  
 

I assume if you presume to know enough about these issues to post on them, that you can read.

Pope Francis is basically introducing policies that contradict “the Deposit of Faith”, which is established Church doctrine that has been reaffirmed until the last few years under Francis.  Strickland said this.  He also continued to support parishioners who like the Latin mass.  Strickland was given no reason for his removal.  He isn’t the only one who has been cancelled for being Catholic in recent years.  Multiple bishops have issued dubia (questions) to Francis about a variety of new decrees that appear to contradict the “Deposit”.  The responses have been largely curt and glib.  That’s a short summary of broad strokes.  

[TreeBeard]

Yes, the Pope’s reversal on a lot of the LGBTQ+ issues has caused quite a stir.  

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/11/20/pope-francis-women-transgender-community-246547

For the marginalized trans community of Torvaianica, it was just the latest gesture of inclusion from a pope who has made reaching out to the LGBTQ+ community a hallmark of his papacy, in word and deed.

“Before, the church was closed to us. They didn’t see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil,” said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a Colombian transgender woman known as Consuelo, whose kitchen is decorated with pictures of Jesus. “Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us.”

Francis’ latest initiative was a document from the Vatican’s doctrine office asserting that, under some circumstances, transgender people can be baptized and can serve as godparents and witnesses in weddings. It followed another recent statement from the pope himself that suggested same-sex couples could receive church blessings.

 

I’m sure this is much of what your concerns are, yes?   To be honest, I don’t really care about whether the church remains bigoted or becomes more inclusive, although it’s probably good for the world in general that they are more inclusive.  They seem to be less Catholic, but more Christ-like in this new accepting attitude. I’d imagine in a few decades, without the church following societal change, it will be a few angry folks sitting in empty pews recalling how great the world used to be when the church openly hated the LGBTQ+ community. 
 

No, I don’t care what happens to the church, or what the doctrine is.  My interest is in HOW you know this Pope is illegitimate and not sent by God to change things.  Do you have more of a line to God than the Pope does?  That’s the part I find myself wanting to discuss.  

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

Yes, the Pope’s reversal on a lot of the LGBTQ+ issues has caused quite a stir.  

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/11/20/pope-francis-women-transgender-community-246547

For the marginalized trans community of Torvaianica, it was just the latest gesture of inclusion from a pope who has made reaching out to the LGBTQ+ community a hallmark of his papacy, in word and deed.

“Before, the church was closed to us. They didn’t see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil,” said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a Colombian transgender woman known as Consuelo, whose kitchen is decorated with pictures of Jesus. “Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us.”

Francis’ latest initiative was a document from the Vatican’s doctrine office asserting that, under some circumstances, transgender people can be baptized and can serve as godparents and witnesses in weddings. It followed another recent statement from the pope himself that suggested same-sex couples could receive church blessings.

 

I’m sure this is much of what your concerns are, yes?   To be honest, I don’t really care about whether the church remains bigoted or becomes more inclusive, although it’s probably good for the world in general that they are more inclusive.  They seem to be less Catholic, but more Christ-like in this new accepting attitude. I’d imagine in a few decades, without the church following societal change, it will be a few angry folks sitting in empty pews recalling how great the world used to be when the church openly hated the LGBTQ+ community. 
 

No, I don’t care what happens to the church, or what the doctrine is.  My interest is in HOW you know this Pope is illegitimate and not sent by God to change things.  Do you have more of a line to God than the Pope does?  That’s the part I find myself wanting to discuss.  

Go repent and pray, or if you insist on remaining a wayward atheist, start your own thread.  Not interested in entertaining bad influences.  

[TreeBeard]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Go repent and pray, or if you insist on remaining a wayward atheist, start your own thread.  Not interested in entertaining bad influences.  

As I said, if you don’t want to discuss, not an issue for me.  

[OftenWrong]

The Church needs a refresh, attendance is dwindling. The coffers are no longer full, getting down a bit.

So if the Borgia popes could have a hell of a lot of kinky sex right on the Vatican chamber floor, why not go with trannies now?

[Zeitgeist]

More commentary on the unprecedented crisis in the Church:

 

[TreeBeard]

Catholic priests used to do a lot more exorcisms in the past than they do now.  Why do you think that is?  And should increasing exorcism use be something that Catholics strive for?  You know…  you can’t just change the church!  

The church changes all the time to keep pace with what we learn in society.  Oh….  those seizures aren’t demons, but a medical issue?  Well, maybe we won’t do exorcisms when someone is having seizures anymore.