Battle over Water Rights

[impartialobserver]

I know that this will get very few views.. because it actually matters unlike gossiping about id10t politicians. For the Western US.. this hits home no matter if you care about politics or not. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/colorado-river-water-california-arizona-climate/index.html

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, impartialobserver said:

know that this will get very few views.. because it actually matters unlike gossiping about id10t politicians

What kind of loser feels people don't take things seriously and then starts off his post with something that pretty much guarantees most people will tune him out?

Maybe if you want people to consider different issues from 'the usual' don't start off by insulting them. Yeash - it's disappointing i'd even have to explain that to you of ALL people.

As to the subject at hand, It sounds like there isn't enough water to go around to begin with, and now the water is drying up.  Whether (weather?) you call it climate change or anything else this is just something that tends to happen, and now these states are squabbling over a dwindling resource.

We're going to see more and more of this moving forward. I don't think there's any great solution other than to spread the pain and come up with alternatives for water.

 

Back in the 70's there was a theory going around that many spoke of that the US would one day invade Canada and it would be over water because they didn't have enough. It died out after a few years of floating around.... maybe it wasn't all that crazy

 

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

What kind of loser feels people don't take things seriously and then starts off his post with something that pretty much guarantees most people will tune him out?

Maybe if you want people to consider different issues from 'the usual' don't start off by insulting them. Yeash - it's disappointing i'd even have to explain that to you of ALL people.

As to the subject at hand, It sounds like there isn't enough water to go around to begin with, and now the water is drying up.  Whether (weather?) you call it climate change or anything else this is just something that tends to happen, and now these states are squabbling over a dwindling resource.

We're going to see more and more of this moving forward. I don't think there's any great solution other than to spread the pain and come up with alternatives for water.

 

Back in the 70's there was a theory going around that many spoke of that the US would one day invade Canada and it would be over water because they didn't have enough. It died out after a few years of floating around.... maybe it wasn't all that crazy

 

I guess.. the truth hurts. If I had made a thread about Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump.. the number of responses would be 50x to 100x what it will be. 

Back to the topic.. this is going to be vastly more impactful than the results of any election. Who cares who you elect if there is no water and therefore no homes, employment, or anything else. The high number of sunny days makes the agriculture happen. Also, folks like mild weather and sun. They are willing to put up with 110 degree days as long as later on in the year.. they do not have to endure snow, ice, frosted windows, shoveling snow, and all that comes with it. Before you blast away.. I live in Reno which is high desert. Meaning that we get snow and low-ish temps (winter day time highs of 35 and low of 15 is as bad as it gets). 

[Army Guy]

I thought they said that lake mead water levels were improving by a lot... i really wasn't paying that much attention to the articles, but environmentalist were using it as an extreme example of climate change...and now it is almost at normal levels due to heavy snow in the north.....

[impartialobserver]

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I thought they said that lake mead water levels were improving by a lot... i really wasn't paying that much attention to the articles, but environmentalist were using it as an extreme example of climate change...and now it is almost at normal levels due to heavy snow in the north.....

Lake mead is up this year. However that is not the point. The point is that in the long term.. this current level of drawing from the colorado river is not sustainable. Too many people living in a very hot and dry place (Southern NV, Southern CA, and most of AZ)

[herbie]

They selling water to Nestle to bottle and sell at a million percent markup? Promoting almond milk thinking they're saving the environment?
Like, the huge growth allowed in the middle of the desert is nuts!

[eyeball]

Speaking of nuts are they still farming pistachios in California at 2 gallons of water per pistachio?

[herbie]

People need to adopt new strategies. Like massive replanting to prevent fast runoffs in storms. Planting fruit trees along and over canals & ditches to shade and slow evaporation, bury some, Improve on those Roman era aqueducts.

Maybe the Colorado would once again reach the ocean.

[Caswell Thomas]

On 10/20/2023 at 11:09 AM, herbie said:

They selling water to Nestle to bottle and sell at a million percent markup? Promoting almond milk thinking they're saving the environment?
Like, the huge growth allowed in the middle of the desert is nuts!

Incorrect. That water is obtained through an agreement Nestle made with several Native American nations which control Indian Spring in the San Bernardino mountains plus a few percolating springs not on the permit where the water comes up naturally there which I have seen similar ones of on hiking trails above the 9600 ft elevation level. It is estimated though that Nestle pumped 62.6 million gallons f water per year, from 1947 to 2015, the latter the year the whole thing came to.light and continues under investigation though legally from the 1947 era law, they are legally entitled, but, that Spring does not feed the Colorado River, it's too far south. 

[reason10]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:57 PM, impartialobserver said:

I know that this will get very few views.. because it actually matters unlike gossiping about id10t politicians. For the Western US.. this hits home no matter if you care about politics or not. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/us/colorado-river-water-california-arizona-climate/index.html

If you're wondering why this might get few views (at least from the educated people here) maybe the CNN label could give you a clue. Only brain dead Nazi left wingers read that rag and give it any credibility at all.

To show you I at least had an open mind to scan that shit, apparently the Colorado River is drying up and it appears that California is its largest user. Excuse me, but California has hundreds of miles of COAST LINE. Seems like that fagg state could allocate a fraction of what it spends on welfare checks for wetbacks and build enough desal plants along the coast to FLOOD that state with drinking water.

Bottom line, the world is MOSTLY MADE UP OF WATER. As usual, CNN gets it wrong. Colorado is not running out of water. It is running out of cheap DRINKING water. California is DEFINITELY not running out of water. A good sized tsunami and those faggs would get a taste of just how much WATER there is in the world.

I don't blame the state of Colorado for California's shittty budget and managing record.

 

[impartialobserver]

17 hours ago, reason10 said:

If you're wondering why this might get few views (at least from the educated people here) maybe the CNN label could give you a clue. Only brain dead Nazi left wingers read that rag and give it any credibility at all.

To show you I at least had an open mind to scan that shit, apparently the Colorado River is drying up and it appears that California is its largest user. Excuse me, but California has hundreds of miles of COAST LINE. Seems like that fagg state could allocate a fraction of what it spends on welfare checks for wetbacks and build enough desal plants along the coast to FLOOD that state with drinking water.

Bottom line, the world is MOSTLY MADE UP OF WATER. As usual, CNN gets it wrong. Colorado is not running out of water. It is running out of cheap DRINKING water. California is DEFINITELY not running out of water. A good sized tsunami and those faggs would get a taste of just how much WATER there is in the world.

I don't blame the state of Colorado for California's shittty budget and managing record.

 

the legal battle exists regardless of who reports the existence of said legal battle.. I know that you can't comprehend that. What makes you both sad and comical is that you honestly believe that everyone is this die-hard ideological type like you? If I read in the New York Times that the high temperature in a place was 67 degrees yesterday.. that must mean that I am a leftist and that the NYT is incorrect about this low temp. This is why it is a great thing that you do not work in any capacity where you are paid to be objective. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by impartialobserver

[herbie]

18 hours ago, reason10 said:

To show you I at least had an open mind to scan that shit, apparently the Colorado River is drying up and it appears that California is its largest user. Excuse me, but California has hundreds of miles of COAST LINE. Seems like that fagg state could allocate a fraction of what it spends on welfare checks for wetbacks and build enough desal plants along the coast to FLOOD that state with drinking water.

Far and away the most racist pig on the Board. You must be proud., Spelling's atrocious too. Diesel powered desalinization plants what clever idea... in 1949 maybe.

[impartialobserver]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Far and away the most racist pig on the Board. You must be proud., Spelling's atrocious too. Diesel powered desalinization plants what clever idea... in 1949 maybe.

This troll also has admitted to never having been to CA.. but he is such an expert on it. 

[herbie]

It's time to take some actual steps to addressing water problems in that area. Even in British Columbia that makes Seattle seem like Sunny City experience water problems the last few summers.

The replanting and greenery coverage are a couple ideas people are promoting here where room temperature is considered a hot day and evaporation is the least of our problems.

[impartialobserver]

15 hours ago, herbie said:

It's time to take some actual steps to addressing water problems in that area. Even in British Columbia that makes Seattle seem like Sunny City experience water problems the last few summers.

The replanting and greenery coverage are a couple ideas people are promoting here where room temperature is considered a hot day and evaporation is the least of our problems.

This will be very unpopular with Conservatives but one of the bigger issues is cattle ranching. This is not a climate change topic at all. It has to do with cattle ranching being a high volume consumer of said scarce and therefore precious water. They are the primary draws on the rivers of the West. Yes, there is more to the West than the Colorado River. With cattle ranching comes erosion because the cattle eat the ground cover and so when you do get rain.. any biological matter such as dead plants and such gets washed away. In a lot of the West.. the soil is salty and that inhibits most plants from being able to grow. Lastly.. there is not a lot of actual soil in what we call Southern UT, Southern NV, NW Arizona. So having cattle ranching is a poor use of the water. 

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

This will be very unpopular with Conservatives but one of the bigger issues is cattle ranching. This is not a climate change topic at all. It has to do with cattle ranching being a high volume consumer of said scarce and therefore precious water. They are the primary draws on the rivers of the West. Yes, there is more to the West than the Colorado River. With cattle ranching comes erosion because the cattle eat the ground cover and so when you do get rain.. any biological matter such as dead plants and such gets washed away. In a lot of the West.. the soil is salty and that inhibits most plants from being able to grow. Lastly.. there is not a lot of actual soil in what we call Southern UT, Southern NV, NW Arizona. So having cattle ranching is a poor use of the water. 

I don't think thats' unpopular'  with Canadians but it really doesn't apply here, at least not yet. we have something like 20 percent of the entire world's fresh water and a national  population the size of than california.

[impartialobserver]

13 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I don't think thats' unpopular'  with Canadians but it really doesn't apply here, at least not yet. we have something like 20 percent of the entire world's fresh water and a national  population the size of than california.

In the rural parts of the Western US.. there are only 3 industries; Mining, Cattle ranching, and farming. Low level retail, small time restaurants, and government coming to accommodate these. When you have a place that averages 5 inches of precipitation per year and there is one river, the primary user of the water in most cases is cattle ranching. I get it.. what else do you do in Delta, UT or Wells, NV? If you want to live here and have employment, you have to do one of those 3 primary industries. So what is the result of them using the majority of the river water.. it runs dry before its natural end and you get even more desolate stretches of desert that we call playa.. 

 

to connect this to Conservatives.. most states in the west have the dichotomy of vast wide open, sparsely populated spaces with a heavily Conservative base coupled with a few cities that are highly liberal. Nevada, Utah, Idaho, and New Mexico are prime examples of this. 

Edited October 25, 2023 by impartialobserver

[CdnFox]

Well that does sound like a pretty serious problem.  I guess they'll have to find ways to ship water in affordably - like i say our problem is really too MUCH water and if anything global warming will add to our farmable land rather than take from it.

Sadly i dont think canada's embarrassment of riches in that regard will help the states, most of our water drains to the northern parts of the country and oceans, so it's harder to tap into in order to export. But - you're going to have to do SOMETHING or people are going to be pretty pissed.

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Well that does sound like a pretty serious problem.  I guess they'll have to find ways to ship water in affordably - like i say our problem is really too MUCH water and if anything global warming will add to our farmable land rather than take from it.

Sadly i dont think canada's embarrassment of riches in that regard will help the states, most of our water drains to the northern parts of the country and oceans, so it's harder to tap into in order to export. But - you're going to have to do SOMETHING or people are going to be pretty pissed.

The implied thought in this is that if someone tells them to stop cattle ranching out in the desert then that means that they have to move to the cities. Then they have to take jobs in the factory, restaurants, and such and be part of the "rat race". They want their pocket of isolation where they can be as old fashioned as they want to be. I get it.. seriously. I have spent summers out in the vast emptiness of the American West. Some solutions would be the following...

1. less cattle ranching

2. less population in the most arid and hot locations. Imperial County, CA is the best example. Daytime highs of 115 in the summer are quite common with lows of 85. Combine that with it being very mountainous and so quite windy. Now add in that it averages 

3. Desalinization plants in Mexico, CA, WA, OR and then ship the water inland. The problem with desalinization plants is that it disrupts the coastal ecosystem and the locals are not in favor of this. And they do not have to approve them.. 
 

[CdnFox]

Sounds like a mess  Couldn' t they do remote work from home, like tech support or something ?  (athough mearely suggesting it in person sounds like a great way to get shot)

[impartialobserver]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sounds like a mess  Couldn' t they do remote work from home, like tech support or something ?  (athough mearely suggesting it in person sounds like a great way to get shot)

You would think that would be an option. A lot of these places do not have high speed internet but that could be resolved. They want that old fashioned way of life. Hard work, isolation, romanticized views, free from government and society's trappings. You move to the city and according to them.. that goes away. You become anonymous, nameless, and doing something that millions could do just as well. 

Also, they have a long history of fighting over water rights. Once those have been secured.. folks are hesitant to let them go. These water rights give them power and influence in a way that politics in these remote areas can't. 

Yes, driving up to their house and suggesting this would not end well. In the desert with its lack of trees.. they can see you coming 15 to 20 miles away. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

You would think that would be an option. A lot of these places do not have high speed internet but that could be resolved. They want that old fashioned way of life. Hard work, isolation, romanticized views, free from government and society's trappings. You move to the city and according to them.. that goes away. You become anonymous, nameless, and doing something that millions could do just as well. 

Also, they have a long history of fighting over water rights. Once those have been secured.. folks are hesitant to let them go. These water rights give them power and influence in a way that politics in these remote areas can't. 

 

Well everywhere is always loathe to give up their traditions and what their parents fought for i suppose. Still - sooner or later reality comes calling

Quote

Yes, driving up to their house and suggesting this would not end well. In the desert with its lack of trees.. they can see you coming 15 to 20 miles away. 

I knew that sarah palin could see russia from her house, but 20 miles is still pretty good...

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Well everywhere is always loathe to give up their traditions and what their parents fought for i suppose. Still - sooner or later reality comes calling

I knew that sarah palin could see russia from her house, but 20 miles is still pretty good...

the dust cloud gives you away. The alkaline dust hangs in the air like no other. 

What they do not want to realize is that the water rights and respective allocations were mostly written up and decided in the 50's and 60's. They had no idea that this area would see such population growth. So they over-allocated and the legal battle to correct that is the subject of this thread. Las vegas in 1950 has 24k people and as of today has 647K. 

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

the dust cloud gives you away. The alkaline dust hangs in the air like no other. 

What they do not want to realize is that the water rights and respective allocations were mostly written up and decided in the 50's and 60's. They had no idea that this area would see such population growth. So they over-allocated and the legal battle to correct that is the subject of this thread. Las vegas in 1950 has 24k people and as of today has 647K. 

Seems like it's still missing the bigger picture tho.  The population of all those areas is still likely to increase. The water volume is not.  THey're going to have to figure out something else or no matter what they agree on today 20 years from now someone's going to be saying "Well those agreements were done all the way back in 2023, and they didn't account for the situation we face today".

[impartialobserver]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Seems like it's still missing the bigger picture tho.  The population of all those areas is still likely to increase. The water volume is not.  THey're going to have to figure out something else or no matter what they agree on today 20 years from now someone's going to be saying "Well those agreements were done all the way back in 2023, and they didn't account for the situation we face today".

True. the population is going to continue to grow. Folks love the sunny and mostly warm days. Mild, predictable weather coupled with sunny days equals less maintenance on your home. The prices have gone way up in most places but they still come in search of the mild weather and wide open spaces. The new developments mostly tap into groundwater and in some places.. that has been exhausted.