BeaverFever Posted July 31, 2023 Author Report Posted July 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I am very familiar with the Cormorant program. The mid life upgrades and updates were planned decades ago. It was always known there would be one. The EH101, which is the parent helicopter, was still in development when we purchased them. The updates and upgrades will enable more capability than we have now and the Cormorant is so far beyond the capability we had with the Labrador and with the updates, it will be more capable yet. We will never have all the bells and whistles that are available but, Cormorant SAR can go much farther, higher and longer than the Labrador ever could and with the updates, will do it even better. What are your thoughts about there being no AESA or LiDAR included? I believe I read elsewhere that since the Cormorants are always accompanied by fixed wing SAR that have these capabilities it wasn’t needed. Is that accurate? Quote
ExFlyer Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: What are your thoughts about there being no AESA or LiDAR included? I believe I read elsewhere that since the Cormorants are always accompanied by fixed wing SAR that have these capabilities it wasn’t needed. Is that accurate? The Cormorant has a camera system with infrared and while not newest technology, more than sufficient for its role. Those will be upgraded. AESA is not really needed for slow speed SAR ops. It is more intended for fighters and fire control. Quote It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
BeaverFever Posted July 31, 2023 Author Report Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: The Cormorant has a camera system with infrared and while not newest technology, more than sufficient for its role. Those will be upgraded. AESA is not really needed for slow speed SAR ops. It is more intended for fighters and fire control. Yeah here’s what I read in an earlier article, same source: A SAR Queen, but not exactly While the Cormorant is being upgraded to the Norwegian AW101-612 standard, it will not be an exact copy. The Norwegian “SAR Queen,” as she is known, includes a Leonardo Osprey 30 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, an RDR-1600 weather radar, a LiDAR (light detection and ranging) system, and an electro-optical sensor system. The AESA radar had been “up for discussion” in the original plan, but the RCAF has opted to go with an enhancement of its all-weather radar — which has a “search functionality,” Banadyga said — in part to save weight and cost. Where Norway relies on the AW101-612 for both search and rescue, the RCAF employs a fixed-wing platform with greater speed and range for the search and “the helicopter is the rescue platform,” he noted — though the Cormorant has plenty of search capability. The CH-149 upgrade will also forgo the LiDAR system, as the RCAF is comfortable with how the five-person crew currently operate. However, it will integrate an L3 Harris WESCAM electro-optical/infrared (EO/IR) system and introduce a Smith Myers ARTEMIS mobile phone detection location system that Norwegian SAR crews use “in something like 80 percent of their missions,” Banadyga said. “It will be a big game-changer because right now we literally search with our eyes,” he added. https://skiesmag.com/news/rcaf-cormorant-airframe-identical-norwegian-aw101-612-avionics-differ/?amp Edited July 31, 2023 by BeaverFever 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: politicians are subject to politics, which they play no holds barred I'm not going to second guess 1 RCR, I wasn't there, and they executed the mission with valour in the end who am I to question Rick Nolan & Frank Mellish ? I worship them as the infantry gods that they were Frank Mellish was an Airborne Regiment Patrol Pathfinder, best of the best the greatest soldier I ever met he advanced on foot into the forlorn hope and was cut down trying to recover his best friends body, to keep it from the Taliban Never once asked if you questioned the soldiers that unfortunately perished.. I question your comments as to what occurred and where you got your information. You speak as if you were part of the review and investigation and I am sure you were not.... as you admitted not being there. Quote It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: What are your thoughts about there being no AESA or LiDAR included? those are only for Combat Search & Rescue that sort of situational awareness is not required for domestic SAR Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, ExFlyer said: Never once asked if you questioned the soldiers that unfortunately perished.. I question your comments as to what occurred and where you got your information. You speak as if you were part of the review and investigation and I am sure you were not.... as you admitted not being there. like I said, I honestly don't know why there was no recce best guess is that it was a recce in force advance to contact, or recce by death as it was called Quote
ExFlyer Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: like I said, I honestly don't know why there was no recce best guess is that it was a recce in force advance to contact, or recce by death as it was called So, all your previous comments, accusations etc were conjecture and "your best guess"? Edited July 31, 2023 by ExFlyer Quote It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, ExFlyer said: So, all your previous comments were "your best guess"? same guess both times they were ordered to go out there and find the Taliban and they found them, by contact front Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 just doing a review of it according to the account they knew that the Taliban were at the White Schoolhouse and they were ordered to attack that stronghold they got to fifty meters away from the objective before the Taliban opened fire so that sounds like advance to contact, contact front, more so than an ambush on the march and again, if you are doing advance to contact in a G-Wagon, frontal into an enemy stronghold you really don't stand much of a chance when you start taking fire from RPG-7's Quote
ExFlyer Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: just doing a review of it according to the account they knew that the Taliban were at the White Schoolhouse and they were ordered to attack that stronghold they got to fifty meters away from the objective before the Taliban opened fire so that sounds like advance to contact, contact front, more so than an ambush on the march and again, if you are doing advance to contact in a G-Wagon, frontal into an enemy stronghold you really don't stand much of a chance when you start taking fire from RPG-7's Review of what? An official after action restricted report? Cite? Or newspapers report or mess talk? Quote It can be dangerous to believe things just because you want them to be true. - Sagan
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 18 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Yes there are military demands. There are security threats to Canada beyond simply being attacked. I hate it when people say Canada never be attacked therefore it has no security threats. Foreign submarines, surveillance balloons and military vessels in our waters and airspace is a threat Furthermore USA is one of the countries who refuse to recognize Canadian sovereignty in the arctic archipelago. If they do end up having to secure Canadian airspace or maritime borders out of their own self interest simply because we refuse to based on some sense of Canadian moral superiority, they will not do it for free or without cost to Canada. One way or another we will have to sacrifice something more in our relationship than we already do. I don’t think we need to be more in hock to the US than we already are. Yes we could withdraw from NATO entirely and become a giant Iceland. Having an expeditionary military is always a choice. Like most choices, it comes with consequences. As of now, Canadians haven’t wanted that choice because there is a diplomatic and economic price to pay to USA and Europe that we don’t wish to pay. Iceland has a tiny economy and only has a population of ~300,000 people and is protected by a US Naval Air Station based on its soil. Canada has no excuse and no appetite to reopen US military bases on Canadian soil. This is the info that most Canadians are exposed to or taught, "That there is no enemy state or nation that could attack Canada other than the US...there fore no sense in even having a military let alone wasting good tax dollars on it..." Very few Canadians could even say with any confidence what our military does every day of the year, 24/7, let alone name any threats that our nation faces every day. Our military operates outside their bubbles and therefore most do not care or can be bother to educate themselves on the entire topic. The US is one of many nations that have claims on land in our artic region, all of them very capable of taking it without much of a response from our military. Most do not dare only becasue we hide behind moms skirt...Canadians do not know what they want to do for defense of the nation, they don't want to pay for it, and they do not want the US doing it for us... one day it will bite us in the ass, and we will pay dearly for out mistakes... Canadian moral superiority, to whom i ask, we as a nation might think we are superior, but in reality we are nothing more than free loaders, who can no longer be trusted to live up to it's defensive agreements, the western would knows this very well and is starting to cut Canada out of some sensitive agreements, such as AUKUS/ and limiting us in 5 eyes, and this is just the start. What we need is for a US president to take interest and have the balls to talk to our PM without all those political pleasantries and just tell the PM this is what your going to do, suck it up...just as Justins dad was told to buy upgrade it's ground forces in Germany with Leopard tanks etc. 1 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 30 minutes ago, Army Guy said: What we need is for a US president to take interest and have the balls to talk to our PM without all those political pleasantries and just tell the PM this is what your going to do, that's not going to work, that would just backfire, inciting Canada to dig its heels in all the more Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 36 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Canadian moral superiority, to whom i ask, we as a nation might think we are superior, but in reality we are nothing more than free loaders the moral superiority flows from the lack of military power Canadians are the Peacekeepers who look down their noses at the American Warmongers furthermore, despite the political rhetoric in America it is actually in America's strategic interests for Canada & Mexico to be feeble militarily America does actually want neighbours with the power to assert their independence from American foreign policy Quote
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, ExFlyer said: 158 Military personnel perished in 13 years of activity in Afghan war. While 1 is too many, war is war and people die and if wee were in full front line combat, it would have been many more.. Canada has and had equipment to accomplish what missions it was designated to carry out. Canada upgraded equipment during the Afghan war. Lastly, we pulled out the last of our personnel out in 2014 (many left long before that) so, living in the past is just that, in the past. Afghanistan conflict was not a normal conflict, meaning NATO had established modern mega bases all around Afghanistan, Kandahar, had well over 20,000 troops in it at any one time...that being said it was subject to rocket and arty attacks and a few direct operations against the entrances to the camp.. other than that it was like being at the mall in Canada where you could find Tim hornets, and Pizza, and the all the latest burger places... what made this conflict different was, while you were relative safe inside the wire, everyone that went outside the wire was a target, and it was not if you were going to be attacked it was when you where going to be attacked. The front line started as soon as you drove off base... One of the many reasons we limited deaths and injuries was traveling in company size elements, which would spend weeks at a time outside the wire just driving looking for bad guys, we would arrive in the middle of the night and then come morning we would engage bad guys until prayer times, fighting would stop we would get resupplied , after prayer time do it all again or until they had enough...most of the time they gave up pretty fast, 15 LAVIII along with 150 grunts and fast air or Arty on call...despite hopw many we would kill, the next morning their was always more to kill... Upgraded equipment only came after a certain amount of soldiers gad died, we could have cut casualties by 80 % hjad we realized on helo support for resupply, and moving troops... Iltis jeep was replace by the G-wagon, so we upgraded from a soft top to a hard top with no more protection than your car roof..., we stopped using LSVW and MLVW for the same reason to soft, even with armored glass...what other equipment we did buy like the M-777 was for Afghanistan with a few training pieces for Canada, rented Russian helos, then US CH-147, all to late and a dollar short...The logistic truck fleet was the best buy the Army ever purchased, once again, only for Afghanistan, and now sitting in depot waiting for the next call...We learned a shit ton of lessons learned, like having helos , even attack helos would have saved lots of lives... The conflict did result in some tech advancements, like be able to listen and track any cell phone conversation for long distances , we developed the ability to jam cell phone and other frequencies used in IED's, equipment to spot buried IED's at driving speeds, the ability to track any small arms or missile launch down to a 12 figure grid square while on the move, lots of drone tech, which they threw out at the end of the conflict... I guess the objective here is the conflict is over and those tools have been put away or sold...and very few lessons learned were actually actioned...and what were like the TAPV is garbage.... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: that's not going to work, that would just backfire, inciting Canada to dig its heels in all the more It worked on Justin dad.. besides it is not like we would have a choice, they could decide to hurt us in our GDP, as our largest trading partner...it would work it just needs someone to pull the trigger... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the moral superiority flows from the lack of military power Canadians are the Peacekeepers who look down their noses at the American Warmongers furthermore, despite the political rhetoric in America it is actually in America's strategic interests for Canada & Mexico to be feeble militarily America does actually want neighbours with the power to assert their independence from American foreign policy Well the political leaders in America would seem to disagree, more and more are speaking their minds, with more forceful comments " free loaders " are strong words... In todays world i think the US is struggling keeping up with all the new and old threats, and are looking for partner that can take up some of the slack... take Australia and Nuke subs... thats a huge compromise for both the US and UK... considering Australia just spent 300 Bil on new defense items last year... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Army Guy said: It worked on Justin dad.. besides it is not like we would have a choice, they could decide to hurt us in our GDP, as our largest trading partner...it would work it just needs someone to pull the trigger... I don't recall this transformation of the forces which you speak of as far as I recall, we still had a tiny poorly equipped military in the 1980's 2 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Well the political leaders in America would seem to disagree, more and more are speaking their minds, with more forceful comments " free loaders " are strong words... In todays world i think the US is struggling keeping up with all the new and old threats, and are looking for partner that can take up some of the slack... take Australia and Nuke subs... thats a huge compromise for both the US and UK... considering Australia just spent 300 Bil on new defense items last year... American politicians have been saying that for my entire life it hasn't seemed to phase Canada in the slightest Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 59 minutes ago, Army Guy said: "That there is no enemy state or nation that could attack Canada" even if Canada is attacked it's not going to be a conventional military attack nobody is going to roll tanks into the NWT the threat is covert infiltration attack which falls under the mandate of the DPS more than DND Quote
BeaverFever Posted July 31, 2023 Author Report Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, Dougie93 said: I went to visit a buddy down at NDMC, and I walked past Clayton Matchee's room I just looked in and nodded at him, and he nodded back and I thought, holy shit, there he is, the guy who brought the roof down on our heads Wait I missed this comment earlier. I thought his botched suicide attempt in Somalia after he was arrested left him brain damaged to the level of a small child and partially paralyzed. He gave you a nod? 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/27/2023 at 9:21 AM, Contrarian said: Do you believe there is legitimacy in the concerns raised by United States regarding Canada's contribution to NATO's financial commitments, often referred to as the 'fair share'? I'm interested in hearing from former Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) members on this forum, as well as others who have a vested interest or curiosity in this subject too. ? A massive leak of U.S. national security documents has now spilled over into Canada. The Washington Post says it has seen a Pentagon document criticizing Canada's military readiness among materials allegedly posted online by a Massachusetts Air National Guardsman arrested last week.https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/canadian-forces-nato-washington-post-1.6815616 The Canadian tax payer has had their face slapped off, by the media who has been reporting all of this for decades...this should not be news to 99.99% of Canadians. Most military members have been screaming this from the tops of every roof in Canada, to no avail... Your question should be addressed to the Average Canadian, what they think about this news that has plagued our nation longer than aids, or pride month... How proud are they for forcing other Canadians to suffer the effects of war without the proper equipment, training... or any other care for that matter... As a once serving member i am proud of my military career, and would do it all over again, i had the honor of meeting some of Canada's finest soldiers and civilians... I dedicated my service not to Canadians or the nation, but to the men and women that also served along side of me.. The treatment of those that serve or it's vets is very telling about Canada, it is not a trait to be proud of but one that is shameful. 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Wait I missed this comment earlier. I thought his botched suicide attempt in Somalia after he was arrested left him brain damaged to the level of a small child and partially paralyzed. He gave you a nod? yeah, he wasn't completely unaware, he didn't know who I was, he just stared at me with a vacant look in his eyes I wasn't expecting to see him, I just walked past an open room and glanced in then after a couple steps, I thought, holy f*ck that was Matchee so then I looked back in and he stared at me so I just nodded involuntarily in the face of him and he nodded back without any real recognition Edited July 31, 2023 by Dougie93 Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 47 minutes ago, Army Guy said: ...and very few lessons learned were actually actioned... the lesson that the politicians took is that the whole thing was a quagmire and that they probably shouldn't have let Rick Hillier talk them into going to Kandahar instead they should go back to their original idea in the 1990's which was to dismantle the combat power of the military since that had not proved to benefit them politically, quite the opposite Quote
Dougie93 Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: I thought his botched suicide attempt in Somalia after he was arrested the most important thing to remember therein is that Matchee was just following orders because 2 Commando had been ordered by the chain of command to "rough the prisoners up" Edited July 31, 2023 by Dougie93 Quote
Army Guy Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 7 hours ago, BeaverFever said: According to the account I read the entire company was ambushed while enroute to the assault or at the initial release point and there were LAVs infront. I obviously can’t speak to why Nolan and his party were in a G-wagon (which sounds like it was up-armoured and as you know is not a jeep) instead of one of the LAVs but it’s not like there weren’t LAVs. Far be it from me to question experienced soldiers but how do you stumble into an ambush that big? That operation, tactics and choice of vehicles was not planned by politicians in Ottawa it was planned by commanders in theatre. It is true, the Battle group which consisted of Canadian, US , and UK forces had moved the release point up, much to close to the FEBA, and they were in the act of deploying into columns when the Taliban had attacked...I good friend of mine , LAVIII gunner at the time described the first day as a huge shit show...Not sure what role WO Nolan was in at the time of his death, either CQ, or acting CSM, those light vehs should have never been that close, not WO Nolan fault but much higher up the chain.. G-wagon is still considered a light armoured veh even with it's up armor, a 50 cal would slice it open like a beer can... and without slate armor like the LAVIII had an RPG would of turned it inside out... There is a couple of books written about the entire battle, one by Gen Fraser called Operation Medusa, it's a good read... I think the Taliban got lucky on day one, and had screening forces out much further than expected...but war is driven by the war gods and murphy's law...but it is recorded as day one was a huge shit show.. now even if it was a shit show on the Canadian side, I'm almost sure the Taliban had a much shitter day, not to forget day two was just a huge fire power demonstration, with fast air stacked to the moon, and every arty piece in the district firing rounds all day and night.. It should be noted that Canada expended it's entire Ammo supply in Afghanistan in the first couple of days of that operation, plus draining critical Canadian stocks in Canada, plus an resupply from the US...hence why i think the Taliban had some very very bad days as well. Over all it was not our finest hour, by that i mean our HQ's finest hour, the troops carried out their orders and fought like mad dogs...but war is governed by the War goods, and that guy named murphy and his laws... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
WestCanMan Posted July 31, 2023 Report Posted July 31, 2023 55 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the threat is covert infiltration attack which falls under the mandate of the DPS more than DND For evidence of that infiltration look no further than the LPOC. Our global adversaries don't even need to attack our domestic energy production or try to cause division and strife within our country, they just have to prop up the Libs. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
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