Just how pointless and stupid our climate reductions efforts are

[eyeball]

18 hours ago, I am Groot said:

No one seems to say why, though. It hasn't been a particularly hot summer where I am, and apparently, it hasn't been all that hot elsewhere in Canada either.

No one seems to listen you mean. Wildfire smoke cools things down.

Wildland fires generate intense heat. But plumes of the sooty smoke that they emit can rise to high altitudes. There it can block out much of the sun’s light, causing a ground-level cooling.

https://www.snexplores.org/article/wildfires-australia-siberia-california-cool-climate-aerosols

Edited August 7, 2023 by eyeball

[Guest]

17 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Came across this just now. There's been a lot of reports about how climate change is behind all our fires, not to mention everything else. No one seems to say why, though. It hasn't been a particularly hot summer where I am, and apparently, it hasn't been all that hot elsewhere in Canada either.

 

In central Alberta the fires occurred in the spring, and were exacerbated by the fact that there was very little snow melt, the winter having had very little snow.  The ground and the vegetation were a lot dryer than they should have been at that time of year.  Took everyone by surprise.

Right now our weather is great.  Low temps, rain, couldn't be better.

 

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

What amazes me is you still think you have a choice. Not only will we have to adapt to the damage we have already caused and will continue to do, we will have to stop contributing to the conditions that will continue to cause warming and eventually turn the place into another Venus.

You need to stop paying attention to the climate hysterics. Earth is never going to be that hot, or even too hot for humans to comfortably live on. As for contributing to the condition, well, I'm game if everyone else is. So far over 150 of the countries on Earth have said "Nahhh" to reducing their emissions. Which renders it a pointless exercise.

Eventually, we'll have nuclear fusion and that should start eliminating fossil fuels as power sources.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

You need to stop paying attention to the climate hysterics. Earth is never going to be that hot, or even too hot for humans to comfortably live on. As for contributing to the condition, well, I'm game if everyone else is. So far over 150 of the countries on Earth have said "Nahhh" to reducing their emissions. Which renders it a pointless exercise.

Eventually, we'll have nuclear fusion and that should start eliminating fossil fuels as power sources.

There is nothing to back up your claim that the earth cannot become too hot. Never in the earths history has it gone through what humans have done to it through burning fossil fuels. You have this naive assumption that we can keep doing the same thing without increasing consequences, like the process will magically stop even though we continue to dump billions of tons of trapped carbon into the atmosphere.

Nuclear fusion is a holy grail that even if it does become possible to use it for generating large amounts of electrical power, it is decades into the future at the minimum.

Why should the average Chinese or South Asian not aspire to our lifestyle and double their per capita emissions if we aren’t willing to do anything about ours? You think we can magically “adjust” without really doing anything.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Aristides

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

There is nothing to back up your claim that the earth cannot become too hot. Never in the earths history has it gone through what humans have done to it through burning fossil fuels.

Oh, of course, it has! There have been a number of periods in Earth's history when the artic was entirely ice-free. And temperatures during the Medieval Warming Period were several degrees hotter than now.

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

You have this naive assumption that we can keep doing the same thing without increasing consequences

Humans are a very adaptable species. We'll figure it out eventually.

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Nuclear fusion is a holy grail that even if it does become possible to use it for generating large amounts of electrical power, it is decades into the future at the minimum.

Yes. But we're looking at a long timespan anyway. Nothing we do now will be detectable for forty years or so. It takes that long to have a noticeable impact on something as massive as the climate. And there's no way we're not going to continue to increase global CO2 emissions for at least the next twenty or thirty years regardless of what Canada does. 

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Oh, of course, it has! There have been a number of periods in Earth's history when the artic was entirely ice-free. And temperatures during the Medieval Warming Period were several degrees hotter than now.

When in the planet's history have billions of tons of carbon trapped in the earths surface for millions of years been released into the atmosphere in a short period?

Quote

Humans are a very adaptable species. We'll figure it out eventually.

So nothing but blind faith. Nowhere is it written than humans are incapable of making themselves extinct.

 

Quote

Yes. But we're looking at a long timespan anyway. Nothing we do now will be detectable for forty years or so. It takes that long to have a noticeable impact on something as massive as the climate. And there's no way we're not going to continue to increase global CO2 emissions for at least the next twenty or thirty years regardless of what Canada does. 

In case you haven't noticed this process is accelerating. Ocean temperatures, and ice melt rates are increasing, not staying the same.

 So it is up to others to do something about it, Canadians can just continue on being one of the highest per capita emitters. Not their problem.

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not at all but I certainly won't be voting out of a sense of appreciation for anything.

Ahh - you're voting for Jaggers then.  Well that's pretty much the same thing.

Quote

Sometimes when trying to hit a target you have to aim to miss.

Yeah - it actually works better when you aim to hit.

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm perfectly happening listening to what real scientists who study the real physical world have to say. You do realize economics is merely a social science right?

Sure more spitefulness will work.

You do realize that without economics a "mere social science" you could not afford to have shelter, eat or fart in the tub...without them your not going to have to worry about climate change....

It's not spitefulness, it is a choice, you choose to back the lefts plan which has produced very little results...those in the middle don't really care after 8 years the results have not changed, nor are they....  climate change is with us forever... and your plan is not working, not sure what it is you don't get...... and the rights plan no one is interested in hearing about it...well until 2025 anyways... 

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Why should the average Chinese or South Asian not aspire to our lifestyle and double their per capita emissions if we aren’t willing to do anything about ours? You think we can magically “adjust” without really doing anything.

That could be a double edged sword as well, what makes you think that Asia will decided to control their emissions, even after we spend trillions on it...One would hope that the major emitters take the first step...and we are not even close to what is emitted in India, China, etc...

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

you choose to back the lefts plan which has produced very little results.

I can't trust what a conservative party says about climate change because of all the ignorant partisan denial that's typically part and parcel with their base. At least the left knows it's real.

I'd like to vote for Michael Chong. Even though he doesn't represent my riding he has a good reputation for understanding the need for greater accountability and transparency in our governance.

The other thing Michael Chong has going for him is that a lot of other conservatives don't seem to like him. That said, he must see something I've overlooked that makes it worth his while to stay.

Oh well voting Conservative would be the same as wasting my vote where I live.

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That could be a double edged sword as well, what makes you think that Asia will decided to control their emissions, even after we spend trillions on it...One would hope that the major emitters take the first step...and we are not even close to what is emitted in India, China, etc...

We each emit twice as much as the average Chinese. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same? How can you justify doing nothing yourself  by pointing at the Chinese?

[CdnFox]

42 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I can't trust what a conservative party says about climate change because of all the ignorant partisan denial that's typically part and parcel with their base. At least the left knows it's real.

So real that they've done NOTHING ABOUT IT whatsoever.  Amazing! 

You know, GHG's went down under harper.

So - you can't trust the guys who didn't make fake promises but actually delivered - but you DO trust the guys who have promised a million times but take zero action.

Well - that's a leftie for you

Quote

I'd like to vote for Michael Chong.

Said every liberal ever    I even joked here the other day that this is what libs do - "I'd vote conservative if you make Michael chong your leader".   It's practically become a meme

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You know, GHG's went down under harper.

You're commending Harper for collapsing banks and the global economic downturn that took GHG's down too? Ok. It's wierd how one way or another you guys are always quick to attribute the power of Canadian Prime Ministers to cause planet wide recessions and inflation and stuff.

That said, it should be obvious what actually works best at reducing emissions.  Thanks for underscoring that.

Edited August 8, 2023 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're commending Harper for collapsing banks and the global economic downturn that took GHG's down too?

ooooo  -  sorry big guy, but the biggest drop was 2007- 2009, BEFORE the recession

AND - We just had 10 times worse than that happen under trudeau - and ghg's are still up. Despite covid lockdowns, travel bans, etc - it went up.

Sorry sparky - can't use the 'sick economy' excuse

Not to mention we've had many years of carbon tax which was guaranteed to reduce it - hasn't.

So once again - the conservatives promised little and did a lot ,  the liberals promise a lot but did nothing.

And you're "afraid" of the conservatives? Give your head a shake. Take it out of your ass first tho.

 

[I am Groot]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

We each emit twice as much as the average Chinese. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same? How can you justify doing nothing yourself  by pointing at the Chinese?

And this is why there will not be any lowering of carbon emissions in our lifetimes. Too many of those behind the effort are as or more interested in social and economic equality for developing countries as they are in actual carbon reductions. They love deals like the Paris Accords because all the work has to be done by the evil West, which must also pay hundreds of billions to the developing world to do nothing. In essence, these agreements are nothing but big economic redistribution schemes under the guise of global warming.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And you're "afraid" of the conservatives?

Not at all, I think they'll take a quicker route to the economic downturns we need to bring down emissions. ?

As for your hooey about Harper's  credentials regarding GHG emissions.

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is grossly misleading Canadians by claiming his government has succeeded in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, one of Canada's leading environmental analysts said Thursday.

...

But in a report released Thursday, Simon Fraser University professor Mark Jaccard concludes that it was not federal action that reduced GHGs, but instead the recession of 2008-09, British Columbia's carbon tax, and Ontario's effort to phase out coal-fired power.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-misleading-canadians-on-greenhouse-gas-emissions-analysts-says/article26716824/

Recall I've already pointed out that Liberals are as useless at reducing emissions. The only thing they're better at is stalling for time and making it look like they're doing something.

It's like corruption, Conservatives suck at whether they're trying to commit it or do anything about it.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

ot at all, I think they'll take a quicker route to the economic downturns we need to bring down emissions. ?

When it comes to downturns, nothing is faster than the libs federally - also their downturns tend to last a lot longer. So that does explain why you support them.

Quote

As for your hooey about Harper's  credentials regarding GHG emissions.

But as i already pointed out a) the reductons came before  the recession, b) we just had a worse one under trudeau and emissions didn't go down except for a short blip which vanished immediately.

Yeah - turns out leftie evironmentalists lie  LOLOL -

Sorry kiddo.

[eyeball]

Just now, CdnFox said:

But as i already pointed out a) the reductons came before  the recession, 

Which was accounted for by Ontario shutting coal plants down. You're saying that's a lie?

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

I can't trust what a conservative party says about climate change because of all the ignorant partisan denial that's typically part and parcel with their base. At least the left knows it's real.

 

Sure they do,"i know the house is on fire we'll leave in the morning"...please tell all of us how the current liberal plan to tax you  at the at the pumps "hoping it will decrease fossil fuels usage" then the lie... they tell you will get it all back plus more at the end of the year.... thats the plan for Canada to do it's part.... well we can rest now, atleast the left knows climate change is real....

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Sure they do,"i know the house is on fire we'll leave in the morning"...please tell all of us how the current liberal plan to tax you  at the at the pumps "hoping it will decrease fossil fuels usage" then the lie... they tell you will get it all back plus more at the end of the year.... thats the plan for Canada to do it's part.... well we can rest now, atleast the left knows climate change is real....

I'm certainly not giving the Liberals the sort of credit it takes for you to imagine I support them. I don't even consider them left-wing ffs.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, Aristides said:

We each emit twice as much as the average Chinese. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same? How can you justify doing nothing yourself  by pointing at the Chinese?

We has a nation are not doing anything right now that will change or make a difference in climate change, Sure our government has told all of us they have a plan and it is working, FACTS remain they have not even come close to achieving any climate control measures, not one...and that is in the past 8 plus years, i think i have earned to be a little cynical...

The entire lets tax the population , then pretend to give it back at the end of the year, is all a ply to some how convince average Canadians we are doing our part...it cost the government nothing...to do nothing...what a con game...In the back ground many experts have been warning about our electrical grid not being up to the job, not even close to change over to EV's , electrical heat pumps, etc...have you heard of the government putting huge monies into those type of programs...ya they have donated millions to help finish projects that provinces have started...but have you heard of any federal projects like new nuclear plants, dams... becasue there is no plan to do anything at a federal level...  

So how can I point a finger at the Chinese, well what you forgot to tell us, they outnumber us 100 to one, have you seen the air quality in most Chinese cities...makes Toronto look like a oasis on it's worst day...the fact that China is not very concerned about the environment more concerned about profit...you could say that about Canada as well, but China takes this to a new level... same as India, and other Asian countries that are becoming the worlds manufacturers, for cheap shit that we can not simply live without...

I also have done a lot of work to my home, i already have a large heat pump, pellet stove, Solar panels which produce more electricity than i need on an average day... 

We are not living up to our promises to the global community, which we have signed on to, and promised we would meet those goals... we lied our asses off... like all the rest of the promises we signed on to, NATO, NORAD, 5 EYES, the list goes on...i guess I'm just tired of living the lie, every time i fill up my truck... do i think things are going to change under the conservatives, i hope so, but doubt it...we have been allowed to lie to the globe for decades, why would we stop now.

[Army Guy]

22 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm certainly not giving the Liberals the sort of credit it takes for you to imagine I support them. I don't even consider them left-wing ffs.

And yet all your posts have been criticizing the right and their direction, when the lefts plan is garbage, why not just call it for what it is...no more than a scam, to take your money, has nothing to do with climate change prevention.

And please the NDP plan is not any better, lets not even get into the green becasue they are for off planet some where. 

[Aristides]

So what if they outnumber us 100 to one. That justifies us emitting double they do percapita? What gives you or I the right to emit double the average Chinese? Why are we entitled? If the people who use the most and emit the most aren't willing to change anything, why should anyone listen to us?

Edited August 8, 2023 by Aristides

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Which was accounted for by Ontario shutting coal plants down. You're saying that's a lie?

You trying to pass it off as being the 'recession' is And no, that big a drop wasn't all the coal plants.  Sorry.

 Bottom line - under harper emissions fell.  Under trudeau they have accelerated upwards again.

Harper promised nothing but delivered much - Justin promised everything and delivered nothing.  Simple truth.

[CdnFox]

17 hours ago, Aristides said:

We each emit twice as much as the average Chinese. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same? How can you justify doing nothing yourself  by pointing at the Chinese?

Because you claim the planet is going to be destroyed.

If that's the case then either you don't care about what's "Fair" or "allowing" anything.  You would need it to stop regardless.

If that's not the case then what are we talking about this for.

 

It's impossible to take this seriously when people say "You MUST comply or the world will be destroyed!!" Followed by "It would be unfair to ask them to comply".