August1991 Posted March 31, 2023 Report Posted March 31, 2023 Kennedy put a man on the moon. ==== I am tired of leftist Americans trying to fix the world. From Clinton to Hollywood. 1 Quote
Michael Hardner Posted March 31, 2023 Report Posted March 31, 2023 6 hours ago, August1991 said: Kennedy put a man on the moon. ==== I am tired of leftist Americans trying to fix the world. From Clinton to Hollywood. Me too, they should focus on fixing America, ie. The United States of. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
myata Posted March 31, 2023 Report Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) You've got to translate: he calls that standing up to aggressive, brutal tyrants. Why wouldn't you just shut down your eyes and brain and pretend they don't exist (works for him)? Problem solved, instantly. Imagine how great that would have worked in the 1940s, with virtually unchallenged, Hitler taking Britain and USSR (without massive assistance a done deal but he wouldn't remember) and then - going all Gandhi or helping his eastern buddy to take Pacific islands one by one? Easy to guess but he wouldn't. Imagine letting Putin have his wish a year back - where would he turn next? NATO is "fixing the world" of course, but wait till Putin takes half of Europe and gangs up with China, Iran and North Korea. Would be so much fun "fixing your problems" see? Btw, keep nodding Michael, so smart of you. Edited March 31, 2023 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 1, 2023 Report Posted April 1, 2023 On 3/31/2023 at 6:20 AM, myata said: Imagine letting Putin have his wish a year back - where would he turn next? NATO is "fixing the world" of course, but wait till Putin takes half of Europe and gangs up with China, Iran and North Korea. Would be so much fun "fixing your problems" see? Btw, keep nodding Michael, so smart of you. Excuse me but... When did Putin "wish" to take half a Europe? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 1, 2023 Report Posted April 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, Nationalist said: When did Putin "wish" to take half a Europe? You forgot. Just barely a year ago, before the fiasco in Ukraine, Putin told NATO to pull back from the Eastern Europe. And when and if Russia's neighbors are weak and defenseless, what happens to them, like all of those? Never noticed? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 1, 2023 Report Posted April 1, 2023 30 minutes ago, myata said: You forgot. Just barely a year ago, before the fiasco in Ukraine, Putin told NATO to pull back from the Eastern Europe. And when and if Russia's neighbors are weak and defenseless, what happens to them, like all of those? Never noticed? Pull back from Eastern Europe...in which language does that mean...'we are going to invade'? NATO was never supposed to expand to Eastern Europe...according to the Russians. And while I'm quite sure that's not completely accurate, I'm equally quite sure what we hear and read from our side, is also not completely accurate. That's called "critical thinking". You should try it. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Nationalist said: Pull back from Eastern Europe...in which language does that mean...'we are going to invade'? In Putin's of course. In Russia's. Happens all the time but you forgot. Putin was on a quest to "liberate" all "Russian-speaking" people wherever they happen to be. Interested to translate that into human language? 10 hours ago, Nationalist said: NATO was never supposed to expand to Eastern Europe... Can't stop repeating Putin's talking points? Living next door to a violent psycho with a mile-long record of invasions and abuse, you "never supposed to call the police". Right, take the psycho's (a fact of reality) word for that. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 9 hours ago, myata said: In Putin's of course. In Russia's. Happens all the time but you forgot. Putin was on a quest to "liberate" all "Russian-speaking" people wherever they happen to be. Interested to translate that into human language? Can't stop repeating Putin's talking points? Living next door to a violent psycho with a mile-long record of invasions and abuse, you "never supposed to call the police". Right, take the psycho's (a fact of reality) word for that. I live in Toronto. So I do live "next door to a violent psycho with a mile-long record of invasions and abuse". You're making things up now. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nationalist said: So I do live "next door to a violent psycho with a mile-long record of invasions and abuse". Again, you forget. A short memory syndrome. Same kind of arguments were made before. Not our business. I live in Toronto. Next Hitler gangs up with a few baddies, takes Europe and China, develops nukes and all of a sudden it all looks very different. Toronto isn't a ticket to eternal bliss and nirvana anymore. In a snap, bang. Memory is such a funny thing. Edited April 2, 2023 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 1 minute ago, myata said: Again, you forget. A short memory syndrome. Same kind of arguments were made before. Not our business. I live in Toronto. Next Hitler gangs up with a few baddies, takes Europe and China, develops nukes and all of a sudden it all looks very different. In a snap, bang. Memory is such a funny thing. Lying is such a funny thing too. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Lying is such a funny thing too You must know some about it. And to who would you be trying to explain it, look I'm here in a faraway nothing minding my own business, not meaning anything to anyone? To Hitler? To Putin? Xi? With two tanks that can be started, maybe and the States mining their own business as instructed? Let's see how that works out, wanna try? Edited April 2, 2023 by myata Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 53 minutes ago, myata said: You must know some about it. And to who would you be trying to explain it, look I'm here in a faraway nothing minding my own business, not meaning anything to anyone? To Hitler? To Putin? Xi? With two tanks that can be started, maybe and the States mining their own business as instructed? Let's see how that works out, wanna try? Yes. I've been saying all along, this is none of our business. We need to stay the hell out of it. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 2, 2023 Report Posted April 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: I've been saying all along, this is none of our business. Sure. To Hitlers, Putins and Xis you'll say just that. And then we'll see. Memory syndrome. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 3, 2023 Report Posted April 3, 2023 7 hours ago, myata said: Sure. To Hitlers, Putins and Xis you'll say just that. And then we'll see. Memory syndrome. LA LA Land. Try living in reality. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 3, 2023 Report Posted April 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: Try living in reality. Yes this is the reality that you folks forget. Easy. Yes there were people like you back then and they said the same things, probably literally, and here's the take: these several decades of relative calm and prosperity we in the West experienced, happened only because those people, like you did not prevail back then. It all could have been very different now. But the memory is short. Would you roll it again, let's see what happens! Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Nationalist Posted April 3, 2023 Report Posted April 3, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, myata said: Yes this is the reality that you folks forget. Easy. Yes there were people like you back then and they said the same things, probably literally, and here's the take: these several decades of relative calm and prosperity we in the West experienced, happened only because those people, like you did not prevail back then. It all could have been very different now. But the memory is short. Would you roll it again, let's see what happens! You sure work hard to candy coat crap. But it's just candy coated crap. Edited April 3, 2023 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
myata Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 18 hours ago, Nationalist said: But it's just candy coated crap. Of course it is. You just have run out of arguments. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 (edited) On 4/1/2023 at 2:47 PM, Nationalist said: NATO was never supposed to expand to Eastern Europe... actually, the the 1949 Washington Treaty clearly states a mandate to expand east as necessary NATO Article 10 ; The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to this Treaty. Any State so invited may become a Party to the Treaty by depositing its instrument of accession with the Government of the United States of America. The Government of the United States of America will inform each of the Parties of the deposit of each such instrument of accession. https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_17120.htm Edited April 4, 2023 by Dougie93 Quote
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 On 4/1/2023 at 2:47 PM, Nationalist said: . . . according to the Russians. Russian claims are completely ahistorical nonsense the Warsaw Pact then the Soviet Union itself : collapsed of its own accord NATO had nothing to do with it NATO was in fact caught completely off guard by it the Supreme Soviet met under the presiding General Secretary Gorbachev and that Soviet then voted itself out of existence nobody forced them to do that, they are the ones who voted to bring themselves down 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 14 minutes ago, Contrarian said: The 1949 Washington Treaty, which established NATO, does not contain any mandate to expand eastward. Its primary purpose was to provide collective defense against external threats to the member countries. Correct Here -> Article 10 of the Treaty outlines the process for other European countries to join NATO, but this requires unanimous agreement among the existing members and is based on the principles of the Treaty and the potential new member's ability to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area. While NATO has expanded its membership to include several Eastern European countries since the end of the Cold War, this was done through the process outlined in Article 10 and with the unanimous agreement of existing members. It was not a result of any mandate to expand eastward in the original Treaty. the Cold War was waged to liberate Eastern Europe from the Soviets the Soviets were the evil empire, we were out to destroy that empire and liberate the Warsaw Pact members nobody ever promised the Soviets nor the Russians that we would not expand into their "buffer zone" quite the opposite, that was the whole point of the war, that was the mission Quote
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, Contrarian said: My position is that the expansion of NATO was not imposed on any country, then you are debating with a strawman because I never said that any country was forced to join NATO I simply pointed out that Article 10 was a mandate to expand NATO to any European country deemed worthy since the vast majority of those countries were to the east of the Inner German Border that was an inherent mandate written into the 1949 treaty, to expand east as that expansion became viable Quote
Nationalist Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 4 hours ago, myata said: Of course it is. You just have run out of arguments. On the contrary. I have the same argument as always. I don't have to make shit up that way. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 Just now, Contrarian said: I understand your point about Article 10 being a mandate for NATO expansion you'll note that Article 10 also states that NATO can ally itself with any non NATO member it chooses to without that country having to join NATO so the mandate to defend Ukraine is also within the mandate of Article 10 Quote
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 21 minutes ago, Contrarian said: nobody wants to live under the KGB, even if in 2023, they wear Armani suits. we are the good guys, the KGB are the bad guys, as it always was I don't why you think that I am on the side of Mister Ivan I served in the Cold War with NATO against the Soviets I was an ideological soldier, I joined specifically to defend the free world from Soviet Bolshevism invited to do by President Reagan & Prime Minister Thatcher Quote
Dougie93 Posted April 4, 2023 Report Posted April 4, 2023 1 minute ago, Contrarian said: Correct, in the case of Ukraine, while NATO could theoretically ally itself with Ukraine to defend against Russian aggression, such a move could escalate the conflict and potentially lead to a nuclear disaster. Therefore, while NATO is committed to the defence of its members and the promotion of stability and security in Europe, it must also exercise caution and restraint in order to prevent further escalation of conflict. It's all a big chess game. NATO is showing too much caution & restraint NATO is allowing itself to be leveraged by Russian nuclear blackmail that is actually the path to a nuclear disaster the safer path would be Peace Through Strength Quote
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