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AOC calls a parent's right to know what's being taught to their kids "fascism"


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3 hours ago, robosmith said:

Getting "impermissible gifts" does not even INVOLVE taxpayer money let alone waste it.

Okay, so investigations are free. My bad.

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

White people have created a lot of victims in this country; esp of your race.

Europeans have destroyed more of this planet than any other demographic, combined historically. Blaming white people (without being specific), is shortsighted and is done to shame and control.

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

There are REAL hardships based on race.

Yeah, including white people. What's your point?

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

Esp having their ancestors' estates stolen from them.

Not sure what this has to do with AOC, but okay.

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

White people are (mostly) the ones who enslaved your ancestors and invented Jim Crow.

Am I a slave now?

Can I go to school now?

Could I make a conscious choice, with my life?

So what's your point? Like what's your end game? That I deserve government money? I'm confused. Buying that I'm a victim, is me buying that I'm somehow inferior, and only government aid could help me stand. This is ridiculous. It doesn't help anyone in my community, and in fact, makes the communities worse.

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7 hours ago, bcsapper said:

RINOs, like Trump et al, or real Republicans, like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney?

I see Mikey gave you a laughing smiling for that so apparently even you two know how ridiculous it is then.

You forgot Mitch McConnel, Adam Kinzinger, Lindsey Graham et al though.

Over in the land of actual Republicans they're not even calling that group RINOs anymore. They call them the "Uniparty" now because there's no real difference between them and Democrats.

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5 hours ago, robosmith said:

They invented the way it's USED by the right, which is far afield from the original use. Just like CRT.

Not exactly. It was more an Emperor's New Clothes kind of thing.

They saw what it actually was and said look at that. That's what it is.

Kind of like when I call a Progressive a Prog or when others call them the "Regressive" left.

Know the tree by the fruit it bears. Like that.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Okay, so investigations are free. My bad.

Investigations like that are virtually free because it's not at all complex.

And they are the choice of partisans who want to "get" AOC.

Them: hey we heard you got free stuff.

AOC: Ok here's what it should have cost me. My bad.

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Europeans have destroyed more of this planet than any other demographic, combined historically. Blaming white people (without being specific), is shortsighted and is done to shame and control.

The vast majority of Europeans are white.

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Yeah, including white people. What's your point?

Not sure what this has to do with AOC, but okay.

Am I a slave now?

Can I go to school now?

Could I make a conscious choice, with my life?

So what's your point? Like what's your end game? That I deserve government money? I'm confused. Buying that I'm a victim, is me buying that I'm somehow inferior, and only government aid could help me stand. This is ridiculous. It doesn't help anyone in my community, and in fact, makes the communities worse.

You've have been deprived of assets that were STOLEN from your ancestors and OTHERWISE WOULD have accrued to YOU. Not to mention connections to very successful people like those who lived near and owned businesses in Black Wall Street (Oklahoma).

You deserve compensation for that which was stolen from your family.

AOC and Sanders would back restitution which your hero Republicans would NOT.

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Not exactly. It was more an Emperor's New Clothes kind of thing.

They saw what it actually was and said look at that. That's what it is.

Kind of like when I call a Progressive a Prog or when others call them the "Regressive" left.

Know the tree by the fruit it bears. Like that.

^Not AT ALL. They have MANGLED and WEAPONIZED the definition to use it as a PARTISAN CUDGEL.

Anything they don't like about racism has become "CRT," and anything they don't like about INCLUSION or EQUALITY is "wokism."

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16 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The vast majority of Europeans are white.

Should Jewish people be persecuted for things of the past, or were they just as victimized by it? Where would you put a white person, who is Jewish? Focusing on where America went wrong, ignoring its progress doesn't do anything for anyone. All it does, is create a culture war, where you just turn the tables, and white people are now being segregated against, bullied and shamed for existing. Again, what is the end game to this or purpose? I just don't see what good can come from this.

20 minutes ago, robosmith said:

You deserve compensation for that which was stolen from your family.

I'm assuming England will take the bill? Or are you going to have tax payers, who have nothing to do with that slavery, foot it? In the name of equality, right? What you're asking for makes absolutely no sense, and is rooted in zero logic.

Fix what is broken in black communities, and stop making people believe they're entitled to hand outs. I would vote out any politician pushing for this, vs allocating funds to where they are truly needed.

This victimhood of "you know they enslaved us, that's why I can't get a job" type of mindset just confuses me. I wouldn't support the movement, as my first question would be "how many resumes did you send out?"

Again, there are currently no US laws holding back black people. None. Problems in black communities, are community based. Giving people in broken communities more money, doesn't fix the deep rooted issues in the community.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Should Jewish people be persecuted for things of the past, or were they just as victimized by it? Where would you put a white person, who is Jewish? Focusing on where America went wrong, ignoring its progress doesn't do anything for anyone. All it does, is create a culture war, where you just turn the tables, and white people are now being segregated against, bullied and shamed for existing. Again, what is the end game to this or purpose? I just don't see what good can come from this.

I'm assuming England will take the bill? Or are you going to have tax payers, who have nothing to do with that slavery, foot it? In the name of equality, right? What you're asking for makes absolutely no sense, and is rooted in zero logic.

Fix what is broken in black communities, and stop making people believe they're entitled to hand outs. I would vote out any politician pushing for this, vs allocating funds to where they are truly needed.

This victimhood of "you know they enslaved us, that's why I can't get a job" type of mindset just confuses me. I wouldn't support the movement, as my first question would be "how many resumes did you send out?"

Again, there are currently no US laws holding back black people. None. Problems in black communities, are community based. Giving people in broken communities more money, doesn't fix the deep rooted issues in the community.

There is A LOT that money can do to fix broken communities. And no, enslavement was FAR FROM the end of the story of persecution of blacks.

When men are treated brutally, they become brutes and many treat their family according to what they've experienced.

As of now, the "get over it" solution has been a miserable FAILURE.

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5 hours ago, robosmith said:

There is A LOT that money can do to fix broken communities.

Correct. Invest in schools. Invest in transportation. Being poor shouldn't mean poorly educated.

I have seen countless schools cut programs like shop courses, and entrepreneurial courses. You're essentially making kids job ready with these courses.

Invest in rehabilitation of felons who qualify. The current US prison system profits on crime. Committing a crime and paying your dues, shouldn't destin you to recidivism due to the Scarlett A you have branded yourself with, regarding a jail record. Rap artists teaching you crime and glorifying it, are essentially teaching you how to be a government slave through prison systems.

I don't understand how hand outs help. You fix the broken system. Provide opportunity for black families to provide for their families.

Handing out cash is like the lottery. Majority go bankrupt within 5 years. Do you know why?

Give a drug addict 1000$, what do you think most will do? 

Give an uneducated family 1 million, what do you think they will do? Wisely invest it? 

You're pushing for bandaid solutions, and masking them as permanent ones.

Ask Aboriginal families how tax breaks and hand outs have helped their communities.

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29 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Correct. Invest in schools. Invest in transportation. Being poor shouldn't mean poorly educated.

I have seen countless schools cut programs like shop courses, and entrepreneurial courses. You're essentially making kids job ready with these courses.

Invest in rehabilitation of felons who qualify. The current US prison system profits on crime. Committing a crime and paying your dues, shouldn't destin you to recidivism due to the Scarlett A you have branded yourself with, regarding a jail record. Rap artists teaching you crime and glorifying it, are essentially teaching you how to be a government slave through prison systems.

I don't understand how hand outs help. You fix the broken system. Provide opportunity for black families to provide for their families.

Handing out cash is like the lottery. Majority go bankrupt within 5 years. Do you know why?

Give a drug addict 1000$, what do you think most will do? 

Give an uneducated family 1 million, what do you think they will do? Wisely invest it? 

You're pushing for bandaid solutions, and masking them as permanent ones.

Ask Aboriginal families how tax breaks and hand outs have helped their communities.

BINGO!

IMO...we've created 2 generations of government dependants and stripped people of that which grounds kids. FAMILY. 

Hurray for The Great Society and the slow rot it introduced to society.

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42 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 I don't understand how hand outs help.  

Americans tend to think of any social program as a hand-out, even as their social infrastructure crumbles.  Purdue Pharma sure benefitted from hand-outs such as protection via the corporate veil.  

There are no inner-city horror shows like America anywhere else in the G7...

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5 hours ago, robosmith said:

As of now, the "get over it" solution has been a miserable FAILURE.

Am black. I grew up poor. 

I saw the issues in my community keeping it poor, and it had nothing to do with white people. 

Had nothing to do with the police. 

All I saw, just like myself, were fatherless children, being raised by young women unprepared to be mothers.

Men who often preferred treating women like objects, than teaching their sons that black women are queens.

The problems are mostly cultural. Using the past as a scapegoat, to avoid having to face the present problems that face their communities.

If people want change, when pointing fingers, realize three more point back at you.

I easily could have blamed my ex wife on my first divorce. She had serious mental health issues, that ultimately broke me as I wasn't strong enough to deal with them. 

What you're saying, is because of this, that am a victim (she was a violent binge drinker, and bipolar).

What am telling you, that using her for how I treat future partners, is an excuse. 

I saw a counselor as a result, and addressed the issues within me that had me pick a partner like this to begin with. Deep rooted childhood issues that had to be uncovered.

Am not trying to repeat my mistakes.

Its not your governments job to do this. This is your community. You as individuals play an equal part in how the community works.

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4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

This is your community. You as individuals play an equal part in how the community works.

The post you are replying to addresses that very opinion.

Was there a time when black people were doing great in America? If not then it doesn't seem like they fell behind.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Americans tend to think of any social program as a hand-out

I see them as reparations (only thing I see as hand outs). People feeling "owed cash" for past plight.

Welfare frauds who refuse to work, because they will never be a slave, but are okay to have their entire existence governed by what they can't afford via government dependency. 

Thats what I am eluding to. Am all for investment in social programs that give people skills. 

I don't give homeless people money very often. 

I would much rather buy a homeless person  a meal, or hand them socks, or a family tradition of ours, to bake a homeless shelter cupcakes for Christmas.

Better yet, would rather teach you skills to get you back onto your own feet. But you need to demonstrate that you want change. 

Some people just can't be helped. Throwing money at people doesn't work for a reason.

Throw as much money at a drug addict as you want. Until this person accepts they suffer from addiction and need help, you will simply amplify their addiction.

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27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. People feeling "owed cash" for past plight.

2. Welfare frauds who refuse to work, because they will never be a slave, but are okay to have their entire existence governed by what they can't afford via government dependency. 

Thats what I am eluding to. Am all for investment in social programs that give people skills. 

I don't give homeless people money very often. 

I would much rather buy a homeless person  a meal, or hand them socks, or a family tradition of ours, to bake a homeless shelter cupcakes for Christmas.

Better yet, would rather teach you skills to get you back onto your own feet. But you need to demonstrate that you want change. 

Some people just can't be helped. Throwing money at people doesn't work for a reason.

Throw as much money at a drug addict as you want. Until this person accepts they suffer from addiction and need help, you will simply amplify their addiction.

1. You are doing what many liberals do - forgetting about poor whites.

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21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Was there a time when black people were doing great in America?

No, but there was a time where being black and strong, was a good thing. Being a family man, was a good thing. This didn't make you white. I come home everyday to my wife. In my community this makes you weak to some. To me, that is loyalty and devotion. 

Where role models, were abundant. 

Our communities are broken, and we are being taught victimhood. These communities used to be galvanized.

I was taught to hate police. To hate white people as a youth. They were to blame for my poverty. These were lies.

But everywhere I looked, I saw people not looking for work. Demanding government help. Pointing to slavery. Urinating in elevators. No longer having any pride or caring for their surroundings or fellow citizens.

Choosing to get pregnant young. Dropping out of school. Men bragging about a woman being crazy, for getting her pregnant and bailing. This type of behavior was disgusting to me, so I couldn't relate to black people who were like this.

My mother was strong, so she kept me focused, but this effort and good grades, made me white to my peers. 

My love of books and knowledge, made me a joke. I related better to my white middle class friends. 

I had friends who were gang members and would try talking sense to them. Get them thinking business. How what they were doing is slavery. Being blinded by misplaced hate.

Eerily enough, my words resonated with a couple. One of which turned his life around, but I can see some I grew up with, who are now homeless. Some are still drug dealers and felons. One was shot to death. All choices they made. 

I just chose to bust my butt and earn a living, determined to move my mom out the hood. A familiar black story.

To blame anyone but ourselves for the state of our communities, is hypocritical in my opinion. 

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13 hours ago, robosmith said:

^Not AT ALL. They have MANGLED and WEAPONIZED the definition to use it as a PARTISAN CUDGEL.

Anything they don't like about racism has become "CRT," and anything they don't like about INCLUSION or EQUALITY is "wokism."

On the other hand, what is actually happening is you guys aren't happy with what happened to your "Woke" label - just like you weren't happy when people noticed it was actually your team pushing what you wanted to call "Fake News." Or "Climate Change" from "Global Warming" because it became too easy to notice the Global disasters that were supposed to happen from warming weren't happening. A few bad weather events we'd seen in the past but the existential disaster you promising wasn't coming.

So now you're pouting because those of us who refuse to ignore the obvious see what you wanted to call "Woke" actually is. So you want to change it to "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion" DEI. Not to worry that's garbage too and when we get the time we'll be by to point at that and offer our chuckling interpretation of "Look the Emperor has no clothes."

BTW did you know CRT actually spins out of something the original cultural Marxists were simply calling Critical Theory. All it means is if something exists in the culture which is working to hold it together it needs to be attacked.

So now they want to concentrate on race now. What was evolving out of the culture was becoming a successful construct. People were starting to learn how to get along with each other. Marxists couldn't have that so they started telling people "No, white people must always be victimizers no matter how hard they try to get along or how bad many of them have it themselves and blacks must always be victims until the end of time. I don't know...cause history or new interpretations of history or something.

And if you think it doesn't it exist my advice is shove it up your ass and stop pushing it.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. People feeling "owed cash" for past plight.

2. Welfare frauds who refuse to work, because they will never be a slave, but are okay to have their entire existence governed by what they can't afford via government dependency. 

3. Thats what I am eluding to. Am all for investment in social programs that give people skills. 

4. Some people just can't be helped. Throwing money at people doesn't work for a reason.  Throw as much money at a drug addict as you want. Until this person accepts they suffer from addiction and need help, you will simply amplify their addiction.

1. You are doing what many liberals do - forgetting about poor whites.
2. Well, that's a moral discussion, not really so much a policy concern currently right ?
3. Agreed.
4. Sure but you could still give them food and/or a place to live.

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. No, but there was a time where being black and strong, was a good thing. Being a family man, was a good thing. This didn't make you white. I come home everyday to my wife. In my community this makes you weak to some. To me, that is loyalty and devotion.  Where role models, were abundant. 

 

1. Your story is very moving and lyrical.  For the purposes of analysis, though, would you care to provide a year for us to look at ?

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10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Your story is very moving and lyrical.  For the purposes of analysis, though, would you care to provide a year for us to look at ?

Around the 1960's are when you started to see dramatic drops in stable families among the black community in the US. Poverty isn't the issue here. Thats like looking at a flat tire and the road vs what caused the flat.

You also saw expansions in the welfare state, creating a dependency. 

Many factors play a role, but the core one, is the loss of family stability. 

You can't expect positivity when over 70% of the people in your community live in single parent house holds. Thats almost 3/4 your future men, growing fatherless. In bad environments, no less.

Add to that a single mom, typically having to work to keep you fed, removing an additional and critical layer to a child's upbringing--IE maternal love.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. Sure but you could still give them food and/or a place to live.

The million dollar question. Who should be on the hook for it?

Where I oppose giving everyone free housing, especially someone who chooses to not work but can, is the fact I need to bust my butt to pay for my house. Nobody is helping me, yet my costs of living have skyrocketed along with many others. I feel zero sympathy for welfare frauds. 

"Government aid" is an oxymoron in my opinion. 

I believe nobody should be starving to death in a G7 country, however. 

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27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Around the 1960's are when you started to see dramatic drops in stable families among the black community in the US. Poverty isn't the issue here. Thats like looking at a flat tire and the road vs what caused the flat.

You also saw expansions in the welfare state, creating a dependency. 

Many factors play a role, but the core one, is the loss of family stability. 

You can't expect positivity when over 70% of the people in your community live in single parent house holds. Thats almost 3/4 your future men, growing fatherless. In bad environments, no less.

Add to that a single mom, typically having to work to keep you fed, removing an additional and critical layer to a child's upbringing--IE maternal love.

Can we look at data for this now, then ?

500px-Nonmarital_Birth_Rates_in_the_Unit

 

And you are right - black poverty isn't the issue as it's improving:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dec/cph-series/cph-l/cph-l-166.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure

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20 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

1. The million dollar question. Who should be on the hook for it?

2. Where I oppose giving everyone free housing, especially someone who chooses to not work but can, is the fact I need to bust my butt to pay for my house. Nobody is helping me, yet my costs of living have skyrocketed along with many others. I feel zero sympathy for welfare frauds.  "Government aid" is an oxymoron in my opinion.  I believe nobody should be starving to death in a G7 country, however. 

1. Social infrastructure is funded out ot general revenues, nothing new there.
2. Noted.

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