Perspektiv Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 6 hours ago, CdnFox said: I'm still thinking it wasn't really a true 'coup' attempt. I don't think it was either. If it was, then he was hoping many in Russia would join his movement. If so, it would explain his rapid about face, when he saw Putin loyalists weren't willing to risk death, over this guy. Defying a well protected Putin, makes you a marked man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 Whether it was a real coup or not, I think the Russian people are tired of this stalemate and want it to end. Loss is not an option, so Russia needs to finish this decisively. Interestingly enough, I think Zelinsky and NATO see this and are now preparing to hold peace talks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 Yeah man, more dysfunction in the Russian military and political systems is totally convincing the Ukrainians that they’re in trouble. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: Yeah man, more dysfunction in the Russian military and political systems is totally convincing the Ukrainians that they’re in trouble. ? No...hundreds of thousands of Russian military personnel waiting to attack in earnest and finish this fiasco, is what's got Ukraine and NATO talking about terms for peace. Now they'll have to face Putin to see what he'll accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 Just now, Nationalist said: No...hundreds of thousands of Russian military personnel waiting to attack in earnest and finish this fiasco, is what's got Ukraine and NATO talking about terms for peace. Because those same hundreds of thousands weren't trying "in earnest" before that, I guess? They were just playing around, losing all their tanks and stuff, but not being serious. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Because those same hundreds of thousands weren't trying "in earnest" before that, I guess? They were just playing around, losing all their tanks and stuff, but not being serious. ? Why do you think that Prigozhin was pissed off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 8 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Why do you think that Prigozhin was pissed off? Many reasons, including: -His troops were being under-supplied and used as cannon-fodder -The MoD was utterly incompetent and that they were trying to cut Wagner out and shut him down -That Putin was lying to the Russian people (Prigozhin's words) and that the war was launched under false pretenses (which everyone but Tucker Carlson and mind-warped clowns like you already knew). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 58 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Many reasons, including: -His troops were being under-supplied and used as cannon-fodder Under supplied...yes I heard that one. Not too sure about the cannon fodder story though. 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: -The MoD was utterly incompetent and that they were trying to cut Wagner out and shut him down They may have been trying to cut Wagner out...that isn't clear. Not so sure about the incompetence bit though. 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: -That Putin was lying to the Russian people (Prigozhin's words) and that the war was launched under false pretenses (which everyone but Tucker Carlson and mind-warped clowns like you already knew). Care to show me these lies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Under supplied...yes I heard that one. Not too sure about the cannon fodder story though. Well he said 20,000 Wagner soldiers died fighting for Bakhmut... 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: They may have been trying to cut Wagner out...that isn't clear. Not so sure about the incompetence bit though. That's what he said. As for incompetence, we can see how poorly the campaign has gone for what was expected to be a quick slam-dunk for Russia. Now they're throwing 60 year old tanks into battle, because most of their newer stuff are scrap heaps. 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Care to show me these lies? Why don't you just list off the justifications for the war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 39 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Well he said 20,000 Wagner soldiers died fighting for Bakhmut... That's what he said. As for incompetence, we can see how poorly the campaign has gone for what was expected to be a quick slam-dunk for Russia. Now they're throwing 60 year old tanks into battle, because most of their newer stuff are scrap heaps. Why don't you just list off the justifications for the war? How many Ukes died in Bakhmut? What we see, is the Russia has control of almost all the regions that want to be Russian. LOL...so you can't show me any lies. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 17 minutes ago, Nationalist said: How many Ukes died in Bakhmut? 1/5th to 1/7th as many, according to estimates. Advantage goes to the defender in urban fighting, by a long shot. 17 minutes ago, Nationalist said: What we see, is the Russia has control of almost all the regions that want to be Russian. Well, the people who refuse Russian passports get deported, so we really don't know who wants to be what, or where. ? As far as what Russia wants to control, vs what it does control, we only have to look at what Putin's declared he's annexed vs what he controls. 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: LOL...so you can't show me any lies. OK. Sure can, but it's easier to list what Putin isn't lying about, than what he is. That you can take the guy seriously when 16 months in he's still calling it a "special military operation" is comical, but that's how your smooth brain works. Do you believe Ukraine was about to attack Russia? The mere suggestion is retarded, but that's what Putin says and that's the garbage you're promoting here. It's understandable that censored Russian dupes don't get this in their own country, but for someone here to buy everything the man is saying so whole-heartedly is hilariously dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 29, 2023 Report Share Posted June 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Moonbox said: 1/5th to 1/7th as many, according to estimates. Advantage goes to the defender in urban fighting, by a long shot. Well, the people who refuse Russian passports get deported, so we really don't know who wants to be what, or where. ? As far as what Russia wants to control, vs what it does control, we only have to look at what Putin's declared he's annexed vs what he controls. Sure can, but it's easier to list what Putin isn't lying about, than what he is. That you can take the guy seriously when 16 months in he's still calling it a "special military operation" is comical, but that's how your smooth brain works. Do you believe Ukraine was about to attack Russia? The mere suggestion is retarded, but that's what Putin says and that's the garbage you're promoting here. It's understandable that censored Russian dupes don't get this in their own country, but for someone here to buy everything the man is saying so whole-heartedly is hilariously dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Well...for as dumb as you think reality is, the reality is Bakhmut was already taken by Russia in May. The Ukraine will probably try to take it back but...we will see. Reports have been that Ukraine is already hitting border towns in Russia. I believe what I see and what I find reasonable. You believe what you are told to believe. Meh...that's your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Nationalist said: i believe what I see and what I find reasonable. You believe what you are told to believe. Meh...that's your choice. You believe what you want to, and you warp your reality to fit your viewpoint. That’s why you think Trump won the election. That’s why you do whatever you can to rationalize Putin’s invasion, and that’s why you scrape the bottom of the internet for garbage like Redacted and Syrian/Iranian news outlets. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Moonbox said: You believe what you want to, and you warp your reality to fit your viewpoint. That’s why you think Trump won the election. That’s why you do whatever you can to rationalize Putin’s invasion, and that’s why you scrape the bottom of the internet for garbage like Redacted and Syrian/Iranian news outlets. ? Lol...truth really bothers you I see. Good! It should bother mindless twits who's heads would rattle if you shook them. It shows you have at least a little conscious. Edited June 30, 2023 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 Truth should bother me, says the deluded MAGA clown still convincing himself “TrUMp wON tHe ELectiOn” Thanks for the laughs again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Moonbox said: Truth should bother me, says the deluded MAGA clown still convincing himself “TrUMp wON tHe ELectiOn” Thanks for the laughs again! What a joke. Can't argue the point...so you derail the exchange. Oh well... Rattle rattle rattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 What do you figure I derailed here, exactly? You started talking about reality and truth, so that’s comical. I’m not the one dredging YouTube, Syrian, Iranian and Russian state media for anything I can find to support clownworld viewpoints. I’m not the one still convinced that trump won the election. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 53 minutes ago, Moonbox said: What do you figure I derailed here, exactly? You started talking about reality and truth, so that’s comical. I’m not the one dredging YouTube, Syrian, Iranian and Russian state media for anything I can find to support clownworld viewpoints. I’m not the one still convinced that trump won the election. ? Well...your clown fetish is notable. As for my choice of news, independent news is far more believable that the dumb drivel the Ukraine propaganda machine spoon feeds you. Here...this will turn you on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted June 30, 2023 Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 That you talk about where you prefer to get your "news" and then link Tucker Carlson is about as dumb a response as you could have possibly provided. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted September 5, 2023 Report Share Posted September 5, 2023 Another Napoleon? That’s such an absurd analogy on any level. For starters, he’s an utter neophyte, let’s say, on the battlefield and has done precisely zero to reform Russia or its legal system in a way that will be remembered fondly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 On 9/5/2023 at 1:25 AM, SpankyMcFarland said: Another Napoleon? That’s such an absurd analogy on any level. For starters, he’s an utter neophyte, let’s say, on the battlefield and has done precisely zero to reform Russia or its legal system in a way that will be remembered fondly. It has always astonished me that the French regard Napoleon in a positive way. He was a psychopath. The Germans properly understand Hitler and what happened. ===== If Europeans have any hope, it is that Russians remember that they defeated both of these tyrants. And the British remember that they always chose the minority side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted December 13, 2023 Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 Did you sleep for over two centuries of history? We have the international law now; rules-based order (had). One cannot just "go", invade and conquer other people's land. We were supposed to be past that. Supposed, that was the word. Or maybe, they can. It's the facts, the reality that matters not the words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted December 14, 2023 Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 19 hours ago, August1991 said: Napoleon in a positive way. He was a psychopath. That's some serious psychiatry going here. Let's see: Napoleon (nineteenth century; the age of empires), "a psychopath". Putin: 21st century, post WWII the age of rules-based international law, is not. Only a czar, whatever. Same level of casualties, by the way. And counting, daily. Now: who is a p- no let's spell it, psychopath-leaning here? Just give us your honest, objective opinion. The medical facts are on the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted December 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 12/14/2023 at 12:48 AM, myata said: That's some serious psychiatry going here. Let's see: .... Churchill rightly spoke of the wars of religion and the wars of nations. To him, 1618-1648 were the wars of religions. ==== To me, Putin is a typical Russian Tsar - he is no Lenin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) On 12/13/2023 at 10:10 AM, August1991 said: It has always astonished me that the French regard Napoleon in a positive way. He was a psychopath. The Germans properly understand Hitler and what happened. ===== If Europeans have any hope, it is that Russians remember that they defeated both of these tyrants. And the British remember that they always chose the minority side. Yes, Napoleon was authoritarian but he offered the ordinary people of Europe a far better chance in life, an escape from the old way of doing things into modern meritocracy. He was an extraordinary reformer who sought to unleash Europe’s potential. If you seek comparisons, think of both Hitler and Woodrow Wilson. That’s why the British hated and feared him. They conspired with the tyrants of Europe to keep those dreadful empires going until 1918. After WWI, from Ireland to Estonia, captive nations threw off their yoke but a hundred years had been lost. Edited December 15, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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