What has happened to the Democratic Party?

[Nationalist]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:29 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

From Global Policy Forum:https://archive.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/170-sanctions/41952.html

"Albright has just published her memoirs, Madam Secretary, in which she clarifies her statement. Here's what she writes: 

I must have been crazy; I should have answered the question by reframing it and pointing out the inherent flaws in the premise behind it. Saddam Hussein could have prevented any child from suffering simply by meeting his obligations…. As soon as I had spoken, I wished for the power to freeze time and take back those words. My reply had been a terrible mistake, hasty, clumsy and wrong. Nothing matters more than the lives of innocent people. I had fallen into the trap and said something I simply did not mean. That was no one's fault but my own [page 275]."

The US has a history of being clumsy in foreign policy. That is what makes Secretary George Marshall so incredible. 

However, you cannot just blame one political party. Americans are just not good in the sport of politics.

It's not a "sport" and that perception is a big part of the problem.

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, Mako said:

When did you decide it was your life’s work to serve as a lame apologist for warmongers?

Congress can blame Bush, who can blame the Israelis, etc.

Let’s face it, they all deserve blame.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/12/05/israel-shares-blame-on-iraq-intelligence-report-says/fa34cc5e-8a18-4faa-9615-19a899f99fda/

Mako...robo-bot is never going to agree with you, or even touch truth with a 10 foot pole.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I sense that the responses you've been getting, is a big part of why you are disappointed with the Democrats?

One might figure those of us who desire real honest representation from elected leaders, is like pissing into a windstorm. And that may turn out to be true...in the end. But we do so in order to maintain a clean conscience. Not to maintain power and certainly not to win a game.

I salute you for the decision you've made. I made the same decision years ago. I would love to hear you input to my study of the current state of Librealism and Conservatism. See the Political Philosophy subject.

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

It's not a "sport" and that perception is a big part of the problem.

If is is not a sport, why is it so much fun? If it is not a sport, why do we have politics? It is important to treat it as a sport because it works best if the participants respect the rule that it doesn't matter if you win or lose, it is how you play the game. We all hope, the experience of a sore loser who refuses to lose with grace, is an anomaly or the cocept of a peaceful transition is in serious trouble. The same applies to winners. You never gloat over victory. It is bad form.

[CrakHoBarbie]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

 I sense  

I burst out onto laughter when I read the above.

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

 

One might figure those of us who desire real honest representation from elected leaders, is like pissing into a windstorm. 

So you've speculated that only you and your MAGA pals desire "honest representation"?. Well, then you deserve to smell like urine 

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

 I would love to hear you input to my study of the current state of Librealism and Conservatism. 

Freudian slip? We modern liberals are forced to deal with poorly educated overtly violent obstinate halfwits who believe their opinions are gospel. I'm not worried. The U.S. has dealt with your kind before, and will, most likely, do it again.

[Mako]

10 hours ago, robosmith said:

Congress was NOT SELLING the Iraq war, that was Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld.

Bush never tried to blame Israelis. The faulty intelligence came from Curveball. Question is, how much was he paid by Bush et al?

It was very clear that Bush & Cheney were looking for ANY and EVERY possible reason to invade Iraq, cause the core reason was recovering US petroleum investments in Iraq that were nationalized by Hussein.

You have no clue do you.

Then Senator Biden definitely worked to sell the war.

https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html

Faulty intelligence came from Israel and elsewhere.

One of the reasons we went to war was the Israel lobby.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mako

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If is is not a sport, why is it so much fun? If it is not a sport, why do we have politics? It is important to treat it as a sport because it works best if the participants respect the rule that it doesn't matter if you win or lose, it is how you play the game. We all hope, the experience of a sore loser who refuses to lose with grace, is an anomaly or the cocept of a peaceful transition is in serious trouble. The same applies to winners. You never gloat over victory. It is bad form.

Its a shame you believe that IMO. It produces...troubling results.

[Nationalist]

59 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

I burst out onto laughter when I read the above.

So you've speculated that only you and your MAGA pals desire "honest representation"?. Well, then you deserve to smell like urine 

Freudian slip? We modern liberals are forced to deal with poorly educated overtly violent obstinate halfwits who believe their opinions are gospel. I'm not worried. The U.S. has dealt with your kind before, and will, most likely, do it again.

Well then dear CrakHo...perhaps you'd like to participate in me study going on in Political Philosophy?

[CrakHoBarbie]

Just now, Nationalist said:

 me study 

What?

[Nationalist]

47 minutes ago, CrakHoBarbie said:

What?

my study...type-o...

[CrakHoBarbie]

58 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

my study...type-o...

Link?

[robosmith]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Mako...robo-bot is never going to agree with you, or even touch truth with a 10 foot pole.

As usual your "predictions" are BUNK.

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I sense that the responses you've been getting, is a big part of why you are disappointed with the Democrats?

The responses are mostly correcting ERRORS OF FACT.

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

One might figure those of us who desire real honest representation from elected leaders, is like pissing into a windstorm. And that may turn out to be true...in the end. But we do so in order to maintain a clean conscience. Not to maintain power and certainly not to win a game.

I salute you for the decision you've made. I made the same decision years ago. I would love to hear you input to my study of the current state of Librealism and Conservatism. See the Political Philosophy subject.

Expecting to get what you want when your views are those of a small minority, are FAR FROM "Librealism"

 

[robosmith]

3 hours ago, Mako said:

You have no clue do you.

I was there. Were you?

3 hours ago, Mako said:

Then Senator Biden definitely worked to sell the war.

https://inthesetimes.com/features/joe-biden-iraq-war-vote-democratic-primary-2020.html

He WAS NOT on the NEWS promoting the war like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

3 hours ago, Mako said:

Faulty intelligence came from Israel and elsewhere.

One of the reasons we went to war was the Israel lobby.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby

Never HEARD Bush referencing Israeli intelligence.

But being a chief benefactor of ANY war against Arabs, they HAD NO CREDIBILIY.

 

[Nationalist]

45 minutes ago, robosmith said:

As usual your "predictions" are BUNK.

The responses are mostly correcting ERRORS OF FACT.

Expecting to get what you want when your views are those of a small minority, are FAR FROM "Librealism"

 

Robo-bot...I sure hope you take your hysteria to my study thread.

Here's the link.

do it...

 

[WestCanMan]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:45 AM, Mako said:

Why are the Democratic Party elites so repulsive & vile?

I was a Democrat and I would like to vote for Democrats again, but I’ll only vote for a party that supports peace and working folk.

The current party is the plaything of the super rich.

Some examples of the hypocrisy and brutality of the Democratic Party leadership:

• Madeleine Albright thought the mass murder of children was “worth it”.
• Hillary voted for the 2nd Iraq War.
• We now know that the War in Afghanistan was a sham that cost trillions. Our puppet government lasted about 15 minutes. Obama surged troops into the war.
• Obama and Hillary invaded Libya which led to the reenslavement of black Africans.
• Obama murdered children with drone strikes.
• The Biden Administration pushed for NATO expansion which led to another pointless war.
• Bernie Sanders is a fraud who denounces war and the 1% and then meekly endorses Democratic candidates who embrace war and the 1%.
• Zelensky is eager to start WW III.
• Bankman-Fried and other plutocrats have bought the party.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/01/politics/democratic-billionaire-donors/index.html

https://www.newsweek.com/volodymyr-zelensky-accused-trying-start-world-war-iii-over-poland-missile-strike-1760125

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/1997-06/arms-control-today/opposition-nato-expansion

Seems like a pretty weak list imo. And tbh, there are a lot of things in there that the GOP are equally to blame for. It's a "frying pan to the fire" move at best, based on your list. 

Forced vaccinations was a big deal. The weaponization of the FBI is a big deal. The sheer volume of serious lies that they tell is overwhelming, and that's a big deal. Their lies about covid and their dreadful advice were a big deal. Ignoring Gov Cuomo's covid crimes was a big deal. Supporting rioting and looting for years on end was a big deal. 

The Dems are basically the shittiest people in NA, even worse than our Libs, and our libs are vile. 

[reason10]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:24 PM, Boges said:

The GOP until being the Putin Puppet party has also been quite hawkish throughout its history. 

The Republicans have NEVER been the Putin Puppet party. That distinction goes to Hillary and the Binens.

The major wars (Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, VIetnam) were ALL started by Democrats and expanded by Democrats.

[Boges]

17 minutes ago, reason10 said:

The Republicans have NEVER been the Putin Puppet party. That distinction goes to Hillary and the Binens.

The major wars (Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, VIetnam) were ALL started by Democrats and expanded by Democrats.

They've been a Putin Puppet party since Trump. 

You have a faction of the GOP and Right that are rooting on Putin in Ukraine. 

[reason10]

19 hours ago, Boges said:

They've been a Putin Puppet party since Trump. 

You have a faction of the GOP and Right that are rooting on Putin in Ukraine. 

Nope. A few million tax dollars were wasted in that Robert Mueller witch hunt and NOTHING was found linking LEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT TRUMP to Putin.

The only link to Putin is through the Democrats. Trump has made it clear that America is competing with the rest of the world and that he wouldn't put up with any shit from them. That's why for the first time in history there was PEACE in the Middle East and more American soldiers were brought home.

The Putin crap began with the stolen election.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Nope. A few million tax dollars were wasted in that Robert Mueller witch hunt and NOTHING was found linking LEGALLY ELECTED PRESIDENT TRUMP to Putin.

The only link to Putin is through the Democrats. Trump has made it clear that America is competing with the rest of the world and that he wouldn't put up with any shit from them. That's why for the first time in history there was PEACE in the Middle East and more American soldiers were brought home.

The Putin crap began with the stolen election.

The scope of the investigation was quite limited. AG Barr absolved Trump before the findings were even made public. 

Trump has praised Putin on multiple occasions. Talking heads like Tucker Carlson are basically propagandists for the Kremlin. 

It's quite the divide in the party actually as Senate leader McConnell has come out quite strongly on supporting the Defense of Ukraine. 

BTW it was actually Biden who brought the last troops home. 

[reason10]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

The scope of the investigation was quite limited. AG Barr absolved Trump before the findings were even made public. 

Trump has praised Putin on multiple occasions. Talking heads like Tucker Carlson are basically propagandists for the Kremlin. 

It's quite the divide in the party actually as Senate leader McConnell has come out quite strongly on supporting the Defense of Ukraine. 

BTW it was actually Biden who brought the last troops home. 

Biden armed the Taliban. And there is MORE war in the world, under his unelected incompetent watch.

Trump praised everybody. It was his style of negotiation. It was backed up by strength. That's why you didn't see Russian aggression under Trump.

Reagan was the same way. Very affable, but with strength to back it up.

Biden doesn't even know where he is. Russia could launch a major nuke strike, and Biden would probably have forgotten that he was holding the launch codes.

[Mako]

China will be the winner of Biden’s stupid war in the Ukraine.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/the-real-winner-of-russias-war-with-ukraine-could-be-chinas-military/#:~:text=We could see in the coming decade a,be the winner of the war in Ukraine.

[Mako]

Why is the Democratic Party, supposedly the party of working folk, controlled by billionaires?

[Hodad]

7 hours ago, Mako said:

Why is the Democratic Party, supposedly the party of working folk, controlled by billionaires?

Can't tell if this is trolling or a real question.

Regardless of party, billionaires (or the wealthy in general) will always have an outsized voice in politics. There's one party though that, as a matter of policy, is dedicated to serving the rich, and they managed to convince almost half of the peasantry that supply side economics was good for them. Cut taxes on the wealthy and some of it will trickle down to you! Sure it will. Just don't mind the smell.

[robosmith]

9 hours ago, Mako said:

China will be the winner of Biden’s stupid war in the Ukraine.

https://nypost.com/2022/03/08/the-real-winner-of-russias-war-with-ukraine-could-be-chinas-military/#:~:text=We could see in the coming decade a,be the winner of the war in Ukraine.

Helping Ukraine to DEFEAT PUTIN'S INVADERS, does not make the war in Ukraine Biden's.

ALL of the NATO countries are CONTRIBUTING WEAPONS.

As said BEFORE, CHECK YOUR FACTS. And take off your partisan BLINDERS.

[Mako]

9 hours ago, Hodad said:

Can't tell if this is trolling or a real question.

Regardless of party, billionaires (or the wealthy in general) will always have an outsized voice in politics. There's one party though that, as a matter of policy, is dedicated to serving the rich, and they managed to convince almost half of the peasantry that supply side economics was good for them. Cut taxes on the wealthy and some of it will trickle down to you! Sure it will. Just don't mind the smell.

You are out of touch with reality. Democrats avidly serve the plutocrats. Corporate control of Democrats is not inevitable.

https://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/bernie-sanders-gop-ally-opposing-export-import-bank-2125378

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/schumer-favorite-senator-of-wall-street-and-k-street-takes-over-senate-dems
 

 

[Mako]

8 hours ago, robosmith said:

Helping Ukraine to DEFEAT PUTIN'S INVADERS, does not make the war in Ukraine Biden's.

ALL of the NATO countries are CONTRIBUTING WEAPONS.

As said BEFORE, CHECK YOUR FACTS. And take off your partisan BLINDERS.

You are on the same side as Mitch McConnell and war profiteers.

You poor naive fool.

https://www.vox.com/world/2022/12/16/23507640/dc-party-invite-military-contractors-money-ukraine-russia-war-us