Joe Biden vs Justin Trudeau

[Michael Hardner]

14 hours ago, August1991 said:

Foreigners buy places in Canada and America.

Why? Because their property rights are respected.

That's correct.  

[Nationalist]

On 5/2/2023 at 8:24 PM, August1991 said:

Foreigners buy places in Canada and America.

Why? Because their property rights are respected.

Well...sort of respected. They can take it if they want it.

There is no reason other than insanity, for people in Canada to be homeless. We have a welfare system that will put a roof over every head and a hot meal in every belly. Should someone refuse to take advantage of that at a low point in their life...they are not all there and should be picked up and placed in an institution.

[CdnFox]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:15 AM, Nationalist said:

Well...sort of respected. They can take it if they want it.

And kind of do already. remember during covid a lot of provinces decided that people who owned property coudn't evict those living in it even if they didn't pay the rent. The bc gov't just decided that strata's, where the owners collectively own the building and individually own their units and where you make your own little community to your tastes,  would be FORCED to allow rentals even if all the owners didn't want it.

And they've capped how much you can charge for rent at below inflation,

They already take control over people's property a lot.

On 5/4/2023 at 7:15 AM, Nationalist said:

There is no reason other than insanity, for people in Canada to be homeless. We have a welfare system that will put a roof over every head and a hot meal in every belly. Should someone refuse to take advantage of that at a low point in their life...they are not all there and should be picked up and placed in an institution.

Well...  mental health IS an issue but most of the provinces did away with their institutions - so there's no where to 'place' them at all.

And with the price of rental our welfare isn't putting much of a roof over anyone's head.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And kind of do already. remember during covid a lot of provinces decided that people who owned property coudn't evict those living in it even if they didn't pay the rent. The bc gov't just decided that strata's, where the owners collectively own the building and individually own their units and where you make your own little community to your tastes,  would be FORCED to allow rentals even if all the owners didn't want it.

And they've capped how much you can charge for rent at below inflation,

They already take control over people's property a lot.

Hmmm...what happens to the mind on that western coast? Is it the salt in the air that makes them nutty?

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well...  mental health IS an issue but most of the provinces did away with their institutions - so there's no where to 'place' them at all.

And with the price of rental our welfare isn't putting much of a roof over anyone's head.

Ya...they did. And it was conservatives who did it here in Ontario. Bad move. However...I'm sure they can be rebuilt.

This...homeless thing is nonsense. And I've been on welfare. It is hardly enough to put a roof over your head and food in your belly. But I made it. So can they.

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Hmmm...what happens to the mind on that western coast? Is it the salt in the air that makes them nutty?

wasn't just a west coast thing.

41 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Ya...they did. And it was conservatives who did it here in Ontario. Bad move. However...I'm sure they can be rebuilt.

Anything can be done - if you have enough time and money.  But - there's a lack of both.

41 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

This...homeless thing is nonsense. And I've been on welfare. It is hardly enough to put a roof over your head and food in your belly. But I made it. So can they.

What was rent in those days?  I bet it's gone up a bit

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

wasn't just a west coast thing.

BC isn't west coast?

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

The bc gov't just decided that strata's, where the owners collectively own the building and individually own their units and where you make your own little community to your tastes,  would be FORCED to allow rentals even if all the owners didn't want it.

BTW...just a side-note but, while that eviction freeze was on, I was able to evict a guy. The police helped a lot.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Anything can be done - if you have enough time and money.  But - there's a lack of both.

Oh please...the Ontario government and the feds can muster the cash to house and even treat these unfortunate souls. Same with the BC government and every other province. Its simply a matter of priorities. For instance, quit holding back farming and mining and I'd bet you just found the funds to build a bunch of new institutions and hire staff as well.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

What was rent in those days?  I bet it's gone up a bit

Its all relative, isn't it. In those days I made a grand total of about $750 monthly on welfare. My rent was $400 for a single bedroom on Danforth. That's over half my welfare, but I had a roof and food. Not much else. Which was a huge motivation to do something the homeless seem unable to do...I got a friggin' job.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Nationalist

[August1991]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:15 AM, Nationalist said:

Well...sort of respected. They can take it if they want it.

.....

Natiionalist, imagine that you own a Gulfstream jet that you can lend to rich people so they can fly around the world.

Where would you base this jet?

A country in Africa, Argentina or Brazil? -Someone will steal it.

Europe? Zillions of regulations.

Caribbean Island? No taxes but someone can steal it.

=====

The US and Canada have the rule of law.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

BC isn't west coast?

Wasn't just bc. Kinda thought it was obvious that's what i was saying

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

BTW...just a side-note but, while that eviction freeze was on, I was able to evict a guy. The police helped a lot.

There were exceptions.  But most landlords just got stuck with the tab.

And here's the thing. Landlords did NOT sign up to be an unoffical social safety net. Yet that's how the gov't is using them - "hey we've got this social problem.... YOU pay for it"

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Oh please...the Ontario government and the feds can muster the cash to house and even treat these unfortunate souls.

Not really. It costs a FORTUNE - and that's why all those centers tended to be closed down.

So seeing as there aren't any fortunes laying around they'll have to give something else up. Healthcare? Education? where do you take that money from?

There have been a number of reports saying this has to happen, and gov'ts have talked about working it out 'one of these days', but it's no simple thing.

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Its all relative, isn't it. In those days I made a grand total of about $750 monthly on welfare. My rent was $400 for a single bedroom on Danforth. That's over half my welfare, but I had a roof and food. Not much else. Which was a huge motivation to do something the homeless seem unable to do...I got a friggin' job.

Sure - but these days the rents for even the cheapest places are more than welfare. It's like 935 per month in bc. The most ramshackle place costs over 1000. The average is 2500.  It just hasn't kept up much.

[Nationalist]

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

Natiionalist, imagine that you own a Gulfstream jet that you can lend to rich people so they can fly around the world.

Where would you base this jet?

A country in Africa, Argentina or Brazil? -Someone will steal it.

Europe? Zillions of regulations.

Caribbean Island? No taxes but someone can steal it.

=====

The US and Canada have the rule of law.

Not sure what that has to do with property rights.

And our great rule of law is falling apart under the imposition of the new normal where the perpetrators are treated like the victims.

[Nationalist]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Wasn't just bc. Kinda thought it was obvious that's what i was saying

There were exceptions.  But most landlords just got stuck with the tab.

And here's the thing. Landlords did NOT sign up to be an unoffical social safety net. Yet that's how the gov't is using them - "hey we've got this social problem.... YOU pay for it"

Not really. It costs a FORTUNE - and that's why all those centers tended to be closed down.

So seeing as there aren't any fortunes laying around they'll have to give something else up. Healthcare? Education? where do you take that money from?

There have been a number of reports saying this has to happen, and gov'ts have talked about working it out 'one of these days', but it's no simple thing.

Sure - but these days the rents for even the cheapest places are more than welfare. It's like 935 per month in bc. The most ramshackle place costs over 1000. The average is 2500.  It just hasn't kept up much.

Sorry if I missed that it was more than bc. I was working and posting...

Where there's a will there's a way. If the governments really wanted to cleanup the homeless, they could.

I realize costs have gone up. But being that I am a landlord, I know that welfare will pay rent. I've had welfare tenants before.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Sorry if I missed that it was more than bc. I was working and posting...

No excuses!  Drop and give me 20.

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Where there's a will there's a way. If the governments really wanted to cleanup the homeless, they could.

Sure.  But the cost both in terms of actual dollars and political capital would be staggering.

And here's the real problem - 

cleaning up homless would inevitably mean making life better for the homeless, right? Better treatment, more money more shelter more resources to get them reestablished in society or to provide for their comfort and care for the mentally ill etc. Right? obviously.

Sooo - bc tried that.  And what happened is that alberta and ontario started convincing and paying for their homeless to come here. In droves.  Literally they cut their benefits and said "hey, if you're finding it tough getting by we will buy you a bus ticket to bc where they'll treat you much better.

Plus no snow in Vancouver. Here's their welfare forms to fill out. Get on the bus and we'll submit this for you. Busloads and busloads arrived every week. We're talking 'mass immigration'.

That happened and it got so bad that bc started to implement a 3 month waiting period for arrivals from outside of bc before they'd give benefits, which the feds said was illegal and froze bc's transfer payments  and it became a long and vicious battle - eventually ending in the feds coughing up some extra cash as compensation so bc could afford all the homeless that had been shipped there and honestly it still didn't cover the cost. 

 

And bc backed off over the following years, scaled back and eventually shut down their mental health care facility, pared back welfare etc so as not to be 'too attractive'. Lesson learned .

 

So.. Unless ALL the provinces decide to do it. no one province can afford to. The other provinces just dump their homeless on your doorstep if you do.

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I realize costs have gone up. But being that I am a landlord, I know that welfare will pay rent. I've had welfare tenants before.

I'm sure that's the case historically - and in some areas perhaps. But inflation and the rising costs of homes given the lack of housing has changed that in recent years, and even with 2 or 3 sharing a small space it would be difficult.

Edited May 6, 2023 by CdnFox

[SpankyMcFarland]

Whatever about anything else, Trudeau wins on age and I say that as a decrepit geezer myself. Rishi Sunak is 42. That’s more like the right age for the job. There’s something very wrong with a system that can even consider a rematch of Biden and Trump.

Edited May 6, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Nationalist]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No excuses!  Drop and give me 20.

Sure.  But the cost both in terms of actual dollars and political capital would be staggering.

And here's the real problem - 

cleaning up homless would inevitably mean making life better for the homeless, right? Better treatment, more money more shelter more resources to get them reestablished in society or to provide for their comfort and care for the mentally ill etc. Right? obviously.

Sooo - bc tried that.  And what happened is that alberta and ontario started convincing and paying for their homeless to come here. In droves.  Literally they cut their benefits and said "hey, if you're finding it tough getting by we will buy you a bus ticket to bc where they'll treat you much better.

Plus no snow in Vancouver. Here's their welfare forms to fill out. Get on the bus and we'll submit this for you. Busloads and busloads arrived every week. We're talking 'mass immigration'.

That happened and it got so bad that bc started to implement a 3 month waiting period for arrivals from outside of bc before they'd give benefits, which the feds said was illegal and froze bc's transfer payments  and it became a long and vicious battle - eventually ending in the feds coughing up some extra cash as compensation so bc could afford all the homeless that had been shipped there and honestly it still didn't cover the cost. 

 

And bc backed off over the following years, scaled back and eventually shut down their mental health care facility, pared back welfare etc so as not to be 'too attractive'. Lesson learned .

 

So.. Unless ALL the provinces decide to do it. no one province can afford to. The other provinces just dump their homeless on your doorstep if you do.

I'm sure that's the case historically - and in some areas perhaps. But inflation and the rising costs of homes given the lack of housing has changed that in recent years, and even with 2 or 3 sharing a small space it would be difficult.

Maybe the feds should partner with each province to build provincial institutions?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Maybe the feds should partner with each province to build provincial institutions?

Harper mumbled along those lines but it got shut down.  He was actually a fairly big mental health advocate but its a little harder when your party's whole schtick is 'less federal gov't.  AND of course recession.  But even more - the feds DID do exactly that in the past for veterans, and the feds maintained veteran hospitals in each of the proinces for many many years, and they'd been turning them over to the provinces and stopping being involved because it was just too awkward and inefficient considering the provincial systems were independant. In fact harper himself turned the last one over.

So - can't really say 'this didn't work' with one hand while saying 'this'll work for sure' with the other   All the feds can do is increase funding to the provinces, and that gets tricky when you start to tie healthcare money to specific projects.  

They could perhaps do more and figure out a way i'm sure if it were a top priority but hell - we can't even get the current leader to meet with the provinces over REGULAR health care funding shortages. Not much chance of it for this.

[Nationalist]

20 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Harper mumbled along those lines but it got shut down.  He was actually a fairly big mental health advocate but its a little harder when your party's whole schtick is 'less federal gov't.  AND of course recession.  But even more - the feds DID do exactly that in the past for veterans, and the feds maintained veteran hospitals in each of the proinces for many many years, and they'd been turning them over to the provinces and stopping being involved because it was just too awkward and inefficient considering the provincial systems were independant. In fact harper himself turned the last one over.

So - can't really say 'this didn't work' with one hand while saying 'this'll work for sure' with the other   All the feds can do is increase funding to the provinces, and that gets tricky when you start to tie healthcare money to specific projects.  

They could perhaps do more and figure out a way i'm sure if it were a top priority but hell - we can't even get the current leader to meet with the provinces over REGULAR health care funding shortages. Not much chance of it for this.

So the various governments are inefficient...go figure.

The Canadian government has invested almost a trillion dollars in "green" projects. Some...like sewage upgrades and roads...are good investments. Some are not. For instance, that stupid LRT across Eglinton. What a lark. 

Couple this with the revenues lost by "green" policies, eh voila. More than enough to manage the needed institutions. 

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

So the various governments are inefficient...go figure.

The Canadian government has invested almost a trillion dollars in "green" projects. Some...like sewage upgrades and roads...are good investments. Some are not. For instance, that stupid LRT across Eglinton. What a lark. 

Couple this with the revenues lost by "green" policies, eh voila. More than enough to manage the needed institutions. 

If your argument is that 'if gov't wasn't so stupid then it would be less stupid", then yes

Edited May 8, 2023 by CdnFox

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If your argument is that 'if gov't wasn't so stupid then it would be less stupid", then yes

LOL...Ya I guess that about sums it up.

I think its obvious our politicians have been bought and paid for.

How can we find a "clean" leader if they're all "dirty"?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

LOL...Ya I guess that about sums it up.

I think its obvious our politicians have been bought and paid for.

How can we find a "clean" leader if they're all "dirty"?

I don't think that's possible. Without going into 1000 words, basically anyone who has the balls, the drive and the willingness to do what it takes to get to the top is going to be somewhat dirty. Good clean honest people go do something else.

So - instead i think the answer is to try to find someone who's dirty for positive reasons so to speak. Or at least reasons you can live with.

Harper was a good example - as cuthroat as they come but wanted to be pm for reasons we could live with. And he did a good job.  Layton would have been another example, even if you don't like the man's poltiics. There are others.

The problem is that the lib party has been around so long and has been so corrupt that in order to climb to the top in that party you HAVE to support corruption and being willing to accept it, too many of the party's mp's and officials are in on it.

The lib party really needs to get blown up completely like the old PC was and rebuilt from scratch.

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I don't think that's possible. Without going into 1000 words, basically anyone who has the balls, the drive and the willingness to do what it takes to get to the top is going to be somewhat dirty. Good clean honest people go do something else.

So - instead i think the answer is to try to find someone who's dirty for positive reasons so to speak. Or at least reasons you can live with.

Harper was a good example - as cuthroat as they come but wanted to be pm for reasons we could live with. And he did a good job.  Layton would have been another example, even if you don't like the man's poltiics. There are others.

The problem is that the lib party has been around so long and has been so corrupt that in order to climb to the top in that party you HAVE to support corruption and being willing to accept it, too many of the party's mp's and officials are in on it.

The lib party really needs to get blown up completely like the old PC was and rebuilt from scratch.

You've reminded me of the underlying truth. Thanks.

Through the mid nineties I was the IT dude at the Canadian embassy in Prague. That's where I learned, you play their games, or you're out.

We've made a self-serving compost heap out of our dreams of self rule.

Humans...

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You've reminded me of the underlying truth. Thanks.

Through the mid nineties I was the IT dude at the Canadian embassy in Prague. That's where I learned, you play their games, or you're out.

We've made a self-serving compost heap out of our dreams of self rule.

Humans...

I am reminded of that great quote from "Deadwood"....  I may be a sinner from hell beyond all hope of redemption. But at least i am not a politician.