Trump organization found guilty of tax fraud

[CrakHoBarbie]

Remember when Donald said his manipulations of the tax code were "smart"... I wonder how smart he feels now...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2022/12/06/trump-organization-found-guilty-of-tax-fraud-at-trial/

[Aristides]

Trump is supposed to be this smart business guy yet he seems to know nothing about what happens in the upper management of his companies. At least that's what he claims.

[CrakHoBarbie]

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Trump is supposed to be this smart business guy yet he seems to know nothing about what happens in the upper management of his companies. At least that's what he claims.

So many of his ventures have failed completely. That doesn't matter to the alt-right crowd. They love them some billionaires, whether faux or real.

[Michael Hardner]

Is it just me ?

What is the point of this so-called "scheme" ?

They still have to pay the benefit to the employee and it's still a tax expense.  The recipient has to declare it and pay taxes, which they did not. 

I can see that the recipient of the benefit should be charged but the organization didn't get any benefit that I can see.  If I buy my employee a golf club membership through my corp - the cost is that I have to pay for the membership.  I don't have to pay extra taxes on that ?  

Seems more like a costly mistake from Trump Corp.

Aaaaaaand....

Is this really IT ?  This is what years of investigation has turned up ?  I am guessing that overvaluing assets is a separate fraud investigation ?

This just doesn't seem like much, at least so far.

[Aristides]

48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is it just me ?

What is the point of this so-called "scheme" ?

They still have to pay the benefit to the employee and it's still a tax expense.  The recipient has to declare it and pay taxes, which they did not. 

I can see that the recipient of the benefit should be charged but the organization didn't get any benefit that I can see.  If I buy my employee a golf club membership through my corp - the cost is that I have to pay for the membership.  I don't have to pay extra taxes on that ?  

Seems more like a costly mistake from Trump Corp.

Aaaaaaand....

Is this really IT ?  This is what years of investigation has turned up ?  I am guessing that overvaluing assets is a separate fraud investigation ?

This just doesn't seem like much, at least so far.

I believe paying people under the table is illegal and they got caught. The only reason to do so is for someone to avoid tax. 

[TomT]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Trump is supposed to be this smart business guy yet he seems to know nothing about what happens in the upper management of his companies. At least that's what he claims.

Wow. This is Trump's core business, but he knows nothing about it???  Stay tuned.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is it just me ?

What is the point of this so-called "scheme" ?

They still have to pay the benefit to the employee and it's still a tax expense.  The recipient has to declare it and pay taxes, which they did not. 

I can see that the recipient of the benefit should be charged but the organization didn't get any benefit that I can see.  If I buy my employee a golf club membership through my corp - the cost is that I have to pay for the membership.  I don't have to pay extra taxes on that ?  

Seems more like a costly mistake from Trump Corp.

Aaaaaaand....

Is this really IT ?  This is what years of investigation has turned up ?  I am guessing that overvaluing assets is a separate fraud investigation ?

This just doesn't seem like much, at least so far.

It’s a start.  

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

I believe paying people under the table is illegal and they got caught. The only reason to do so is for someone to avoid tax. 

The recipient avoids tax.  How does the payer avoid tax?

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Is it just me ?

What is the point of this so-called "scheme" ?

They still have to pay the benefit to the employee and it's still a tax expense.  The recipient has to declare it and pay taxes, which they did not. 

I can see that the recipient of the benefit should be charged but the organization didn't get any benefit that I can see.  If I buy my employee a golf club membership through my corp - the cost is that I have to pay for the membership.  I don't have to pay extra taxes on that ?  

Seems more like a costly mistake from Trump Corp.

Aaaaaaand....

Is this really IT ?  This is what years of investigation has turned up ?  I am guessing that overvaluing assets is a separate fraud investigation ?

This just doesn't seem like much, at least so far.

IF the company fails to report the compensation, they aid the employee in evading taxes, and get a more satisfied employee at a cheaper rate. At least until he is busted.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

IF the company fails to report the compensation, they aid the employee in evading taxes, and get a more satisfied employee at a cheaper rate. At least until he is busted.

Ok, but it's usually the recipient who asks for that.  They get the biggest benefit.

[Aristides]

39 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The recipient avoids tax.  How does the payer avoid tax?

He doesn't but that isn't the point, the payer is complicit in the recipient avoiding tax. There is no other reason to pay them under the table.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Aristides

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok, but it's usually the recipient who asks for that.  They get the biggest benefit.

Let’s say that you and I are both employers. 
An employee wants a net salary of $250,000.

I pay him legally, which means I pay around $340,000 to $370,000 a year. 
 

You pay him illegally — $250,000, which you don’t report to the IRS. 
 

Now multiply that by ten employees over ten years. Now, Trump’s lawyers are arguing, “Hey, they company did nothing wrong; this was the employees who failed to pay their taxes. WRONG, and they darn well know it.  As an employer, you are obligated to report compensation to the IRS and the state, and you are obligated to withhold the taxes. Trump Corp did neither, so that’s illegal and it’s conspiracy to defraud.  

[Aristides]

True, Canadian companies are required to list taxable benefits on employee T4 slips. I don't expect the US is any different.

Edited December 7, 2022 by Aristides

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, Rebound said:

 . Trump Corp did neither, so that’s illegal and it’s conspiracy to defraud.  

I get that, but the blame falls harder on the recipients IMO.

And anyway it's quite small potatoes, as evidenced by the size of the fine. I would say they didn't find very much on the Trump corporation at all here.

[Rebound]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I get that, but the blame falls harder on the recipients IMO.

And anyway it's quite small potatoes, as evidenced by the size of the fine. I would say they didn't find very much on the Trump corporation at all here.

In criminal prosecutions, they start with the charges most likely to stick/easiest to prosecute. All of these crimes are also Federal crimes and it would be hard for the IRS to ignore since they’re convictions. They should also harm Trump Corp’s ability to secure financing because they are a criminal enterprise now.  

[Aristides]

Ya, if they have evaded state income taxes, they will also have evaded federal taxes. Could get interesting.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I get that, but the blame falls harder on the recipients IMO.

And anyway it's quite small potatoes, as evidenced by the size of the fine. I would say they didn't find very much on the Trump corporation at all here.

Small potatoes?

Remind us what crime landed Al Capone in Alcatraz. 

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Small potatoes?

Remind us what crime landed Al Capone in Alcatraz. 

I think that the fine is just over $1M?

If this is it, then - yes - s.p.

[West]

Leftists are vile scum who spend more time on petty little political prosecutions than actually governing a country. The best they could do after several years of nonsensical investigations is get Trump on giving money to his employees to send their kids to college which apparently violates some obscure law that far leftists impose to steal from the average Joe and feed hunters cocaine addiction

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, West said:

Leftists are vile scum who spend more time on petty little political prosecutions than actually governing a country. The best they could do after several years of nonsensical investigations is get Trump on giving money to his employees to send their kids to college which apparently violates some obscure law that far leftists impose to steal from the average Joe and feed hunters cocaine addiction

Not declaring taxable benefits is not an obscure law and it is a federal crime as well as state. It's a crime in Canada as well. He is also facing charges of manipulating his property values to avoid tax. He is being investigated by a Georgia grand jury for election interference. The list is only going to get longer. But, but, Hunter Biden.  

[West]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not declaring taxable benefits is not an obscure law and it is a federal crime as well as state. It's a crime in Canada as well. He is also facing charges of manipulating his property values to avoid tax. He is being investigated by a Georgia grand jury for election interference. The list is only going to get longer. But, but, Hunter Biden.  

Thats what lefties do when you don't let them murder babies in the womb.. try to convict on a nonsensical crime

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, West said:

Thats what lefties do when you don't let them murder babies in the womb.. try to convict on a nonsensical crime

So no one should pay income tax? 

[West]

Just now, Aristides said:

So no one should pay income tax? 

You shouldn't be targeted because you vote the wrong way. Unless of course you want to live in Venezuela?

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, West said:

You shouldn't be targeted because you vote the wrong way. Unless of course you want to live in Venezuela?

They were guilty of tax evasion, and not just a little bit.

[West]

5 minutes ago, Aristides said:

They were guilty of tax evasion, and not just a little bit.

They were tried by far left lunatics whove proven over and over they have no problem abusing the justice system to advance a political agenda of baby killing. Don't put much weight on their decision