Reflections of a Born Again

[betsy]

Though I have applauded the victory of Poilievre (more so because I see him as the one to end Trudeau's reign), the most recent thread by our friend Michael Hardner had me facing something I can't ignore.  It gnawed on me as I did my walk (and after reading Michael's post).  The picture is quite disturbing for me, as a born-again.

Had Poilievre just simply admit being pro-choice and pro-same-sex marriage, and had left it at that - it would've been different.....after all, he is entitled to his own free will.  If he'd appointed LGBTQs, I suppose that wouldn't have mattered either.

 

But to "celebrate" in them, as what that photo had struck in me, is quite another matter.  I speak from my Christian perspective. 

I suppose it's the same rationale why a baker wouldn't bake a cake for same-sex marriage. To do so, is to participate in the celebration or acceptance of what's not acceptable to our God.

 

This verse was what kept intruding during my walk.

 

Romans 1

³² and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

 

I cannot give my validation, let alone my approval.

Come Federal election, I'll just sit it out.  I cannot give my vote to any of them. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[Boges]

Way to be a bigot. 

Showing the love of Christ by condemning people for not isolating and persecuting people with a different sexual preference. 

Quite disgusting actually. 

[sharkman]

Yes, and if Betsy was to condemn and persecute as you just did in your post, Boges, you'd still be wrong.  You want to talk about Christ?  What did he say to the woman caught in sexual sin?  "Go and sin no more".  What tolerance did he show the money changers in the temple?  He showed them the tolerance of the whip.

What did Jesus say about adultery, sex outside of marriage?  " You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not commit adultery.  But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you, for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell."

Are you sure you want to talk about Christ as if you support His world view?  Because you'd be a hypocrite.

[DogOnPorch]

The photo is from Melissa's wedding back in 2018. It's not a CPC fundraiser.

Melissa is of course famous for 'siding with the truckers' and being called someone who 'stands with Nazis' by Herr Trudeau...ironically, I assume, seeing Justin's fascist leanings and Melissa being Jewish.

So what's the issue? That she found love outside a man? Is that worthy of death? What would Jesus do? Is he really a figure from the Old Testament?

I don't speak for the guy...but then neither does anybody. All we have is his parables.

 

[Boges]

29 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Yes, and if Betsy was to condemn and persecute as you just did in your post, Boges, you'd still be wrong.  You want to talk about Christ?  What did he say to the woman caught in sexual sin?  "Go and sin no more".  What tolerance did he show the money changers in the temple?  He showed them the tolerance of the whip.

What did Jesus say about adultery, sex outside of marriage?  " You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not commit adultery.  But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.  If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you, for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell."

Are you sure you want to talk about Christ as if you support His world view?  Because you'd be a hypocrite.

He also said that "all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". So for Chreeestians to cherry pick certain sins and one they cannot accept is hypocrisy. 

The Sermon on a the mount sets a moral standard that no one can hope to perfectly model. 

These are the same Chreestians who applaud Donald Trump even though he's a serial adulterer. 

 

[dialamah]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

These are the same Chreestians who applaud Donald Trump even though he's a serial adulterer. 

This bears repeating.  Christians who support Donald despite his philandering ways, while condemning everyone else for failing to follow Bible commands are hypocrites.

[betsy]

40 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

The photo is from Melissa's wedding back in 2018. It's not a CPC fundraiser.

OH!

That wasn't related to the appointment by Poilievre?  Oh, that Michael! ? 

And here I thought, that's the caucus celebrating the fact that 2 LGBTQ got appointed.  Thank you for calrifying that.

  Like I said, if Poilievre is pro-choice and pro-same-sex marriage - and had left it at that - I guess, it wasn't going to be a dilemma for me (considering the evil of Trudeau's heading towards socialism/communism which would be detrimental to religion). Poilievre has  his own free will like everyone else.  In the end, it will be between him and God.  I wouldn't care either if he appointed LGBTQ for the job - it's not for me to judge their merit.

 

Besides, I haven't heard Poilievre being loud about his pro-choice and same-sex stance  - he's simply acknowledging where he stands on the matter.  I don't think he's going to make big deal out of it like a big endorsement of the lifestyle.  I see his appointments as a political move.

 

It was the photo that really got me. I mistakenly thought that has something to do with the appointment.

 

With Poilievre, it would mean having the Freedom of belief and religious expression.  That means a lot to religion.

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Melissa is of course famous for 'siding with the truckers' and being called someone who 'stands with Nazis' by Herr Trudeau...ironically, I assume, seeing Justin's fascist leanings and Melissa being Jewish.

So what's the issue? That she found love outside a man? Is that worthy of death? What would Jesus do? Is he really a figure from the Old Testament?

I don't speak for the guy...but then neither does anybody. All we have is his parables.

 

 

I'm struggling with this.  My issue is with the verse that talks of having been swayed by the unrighteous.  It would apply to me since I know about God's position on homosexuality.  Haven't I debated about it?

 

Romans 1

³² Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[betsy]

30 minutes ago, Boges said:

These are the same Chreestians who applaud Donald Trump even though he's a serial adulterer. 

 

 

Not the same argument! 

Donald Trump may have been an adulterer but I haven't known him personally.  All I know about him are from what I read from the media.  Even if he was an adulterer - you surely couldn't be serious to think Christians should all be sinless?? 

Do you know without any doubt that he was in an adulterous relationship while President of the US  Who gave you the info?  Did he tell you?  Do you know it for a fact - or, you simply base it on the media?

 

Look how this photo of Michael had been mistakenly  associated by me that it had something to do with the caucus and the appointment!  Good example that we cannot rely on what is being given in the media!

 

And, what do I know of his relationship with God?  That's between him and God!  As long as he's not promoting adultery,  flaunting it for us see - that's between him and God.

Donald Trump - though sinner that he is like me - had never fought to uphold the murder of innocents  - in fact, he aimed to remove it - nor did he try to make an issue of same-sex marriage in way of promoting and endorsing it.  The attitude was that it's already here. 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Not the same argument! 

Donald Trump may have been an adulterer but I haven't known him personally.  All I know about him are from what I read from the media.  Even if he was an adulterer - you surely couldn't be serious to think Christians should all be sinless??  And, what do I know of his relationship with God?  That's between him and God!  As long as he's not promoting adultery, of flaunting it for us see - that's between him and God.

Donald Trump - though sinner that he is like me - had never fought to uphold the murder of innocents  - in fact, he aimed to remove it - nor did he try to make an issue of same-sex marriage in way of promoting and endorsing it.  The attitude was that it's already here. 

 

See this is where you're cherrypicking sins. 

You can see a Homosexual person and say they are flaunting their sin. And that's somehow worse than someone who does it in private? 

If God sees all and knows all, it's clearly not. The passage about a log in the eye is clearly about judgement. Don't cast judgement on others, because none are without sin. 

But Christians seem to always need to judge the merits of other people's holiness. 

[DogOnPorch]

10 minutes ago, betsy said:

OH!

That wasn't related to the appointment by Poilievre?  Oh, that Michael! ? 

And here I thought, that's the caucus celebrating the fact that 2 LGBTQ got appointed.  Thank you for calrifying that.

 

 

December 16, 2017 was her wedding.

https://torontolife.com/life/real-weddings-inside-dance-filled-same-sex-wedding-four-seasons/

They had a dog of honour...

[betsy]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

See this is where you're cherrypicking sins. 

 

EH?  What are you on about?   Can't you understand what I said?  Perhaps you ought to put on your glasses.

I didn't say adultery isn't a sin!

 

 

 

Quote

 

You can see a Homosexual person and say they are flaunting their sin. And that's somehow worse than someone who does it in private? 

If God sees all and knows all, it's clearly not. The passage about a log in the eye is clearly about judgement. Don't cast judgement on others, because none are without sin. 

But Christians seem to always need to judge the merits of other people's holiness. 

 

 

 

Which part of this is hard to comprehend?

 

Quote

As long as he's not promoting adultery,  flaunting it for us see - that's between him and God.

 

I'm concerned about THE LEADER I would vote for - NOT THE HOMOSEXUAL person!   I don't care if Polievre is pro-choice/pro-same sex marriage.  Didn't I say I knew he was a progressive?  He even admitted that in his victory speech! 

It was the photo that struck me.  To me, it's one thing to believe differently - after all we'll all give our account to God, one on one - therefore, that would be between him and God.  My concern is about a leader who PROMOTE AND ENDORSE sinful acts like the way Trudeau had done!

 

Btw, did anyone actually heard Trudeau even mention God on his own?

 

Anyway - clearly youve got  serious comprehension issues.  You're popping your veins for nothing.

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[Boges]

Just now, betsy said:

EH?  What are you on about?   Can't you understand what I said?  Perhaps you ought to put on your glasses.

I didn't say adultery isn't a sin!

But you'll forgive it, and not contemplate choosing not to support someone politically for appointing someone who committed adultery? 

But appointing someone who's Gay to a senior position. . . Mortal Sin! 

[betsy]

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

But you'll forgive it, and not contemplate choosing not to support someone politically for appointing someone who committed adultery? 

WHAT AM I GOING TO FORGIVE?

Boy, Boges - you don't read well.  Go back and read my post again.  S L O W L Y.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

But appointing someone who's Gay to a senior position. . . Mortal Sin! 

 

NEVER SAID THAT!

What part of this is hard to understand?

 

 

Quote

Had Poilievre just simply admit being pro-choice and pro-same-sex marriage, and had left it at that - it would've been different.....after all, he is entitled to his own free will.  If he'd appointed LGBTQs, I suppose that wouldn't have mattered either.

 

BYE!

We won't see eye-to-eye unless you tackle your problem.

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[Boges]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

BYE!

We won't see eye-to-eye unless you tackle your problem.

So your only issue is that you saw a picture from a Gay Wedding and you thought that meant he was celebrating in their sin? That's pathetic. 

So it's OK to appoint a Gay person to a senior post, but celebrating a gay person's love. . . Mortal sin. 

[betsy]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

So your only issue is that you saw a picture from a Gay Wedding and you thought that meant he was celebrating in their sin? That's pathetic. 

So it's OK to appoint a Gay person to a senior post, but celebrating a gay person's love. . . Mortal sin. 

I said goodbye already.  You've proven that you're a waste of time.

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[Boges]

Just now, betsy said:

I said goodbye already. 

Awww muffin. 

[Boges]

Christians use Gay Marriage and Abortion as these third-rail sins that they cannot affirm in anyway.

Other sins, meh, we're forgiven right?  But those two issues are such an offence to them. There isn't even that much about Homosexuality in the Bible, just a few passages that could easily apply to all sexual sin. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Boges

[betsy]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

December 16, 2017 was her wedding.

https://torontolife.com/life/real-weddings-inside-dance-filled-same-sex-wedding-four-seasons/

They had a dog of honour...

 

Your clarification made a big difference.  Here's what I said in the other forum:

 

 

Quote

Anyway.....something just unfolded in the other forum!

That photo, I was told, had nothing to do with the appointment or the caucus.
That photo was taken at the wedding of the new appointee in 2018.

The poster who posted that with his OP had given a misleading photo.

So, there.


Now.....I'm going to have to re-think again!

I might........................................................ BACK-PEDAL!

Edited September 14, 2022 by betsy

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

 

Your clarification made a big difference.  Here's what I said in the other forum:

 

 

Melissa is super nice from my few run-ins with her online. A real fighter as I'm sure you already know.

[sharkman]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Awww muffin. 

You are repeatedly expressing feeling condemnation in your posts in this thread.  But no condemnation is being directed at you, or at all.  
You need to do something about your spiritual condition.

[betsy]

In my reflection - what a tremendous comfort this biblical fact gives to me.

 

 

The prophet Daniel didn't have any problems serving under a PAGAN king.   However, he boldly and determinedly drew the line on worship.

Edited September 15, 2022 by betsy

[TreeBeard]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

In my reflection - what a tremendous comfort this biblical fact gives to me.

 

 

The prophet Daniel didn't have any problems serving under a PAGAN king.   However, he boldly and determinedly drew the line on worship.

So Christians should be perfectly content with Trudeau then too, right?   

[betsy]

54 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

So Christians should be perfectly content with Trudeau then too, right?   

Why?  Daniel drew a line. 

You better go back and understand the rationale.  

Edited September 15, 2022 by betsy

[TreeBeard]

1 minute ago, betsy said:

Why?

You better go back and understand the rationale.  

The exact same reason that you will be content with serving under Poilievre, or that Daniel was content serving under a pagan king.  

Why wouldn’t the same reasoning apply?

[betsy]

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

The exact same reason that you will be content with serving under Poilievre, or that Daniel was content serving under a pagan king.  

Why wouldn’t the same reasoning apply?

Go and read. 

 

If you can't understand the simple explanation - the subject may not be for you.