QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: 1. I don't say that impoverished people are parasites 24 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: and they have no sympathy whatsoever for scammers on welfare nor anything like UBI they say all these leftist parasites are lazy good for nothings I know, I was referring your latter remark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: when you have runaway inflation by the government flooding the economy with dollars flooding more dollars into the economy by things like UBI, simply makes the inflation worse the poor will harmed by it, as they drown in spiralling price increases across the board they are at the ceiling of handing out dollars right now it's diminishing returns already, next comes crisis There's already an unofficial threshold of living in Canada, unofficially, through government assistance that require a lot of bureaucracy. UBI would be simpler and would not create more money in the economy, it would simply mean that money spent in federal/provincial government employees would go directly to the ones needing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said: I know, I was referring your latter remark the people who say things like that are not Christians these are atheists but I don't preach to them, I'm no preacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said: UBI would be simpler and would not create more money in the economy, it would simply mean that money spent in federal/provincial government employees would go directly to the ones needing it. as of that would ever really happen get serious the nanny welfare state is an entrenched interest, the biggest entrenched interest of them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: as of that would ever really happen get serious the nanny welfare state is an entrenched interest, the biggest entrenched interest of them all You do realize that the UBI does unofficially exist, right? And it costs you every year a hefty sum of your paycheck coming tax season. Why not simplify it to its maximum? And the Nanny State has its limits, like you said, Jean Chrétien himself a Liberal was able to unclog it spectacularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, QuebecOverCanada said: You do realize that the UBI does unofficially exist, right? And it costs you every year a hefty sum of your paycheck coming tax season. Why not simplify it to its maximum? And the Nanny State has its limits, like you said, Jean Chrétien himself a Liberal was able to unclog it spectacularly. this is not that Canada anymore the government bureaucrats have been elevated to an aristocracy now literally everybody else will be out of work, except the bureaucrats the bureaucrats now can bypass the constitution to impose martial law under false pretense and seize property without court order they are like the KGB in Canada now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 Just now, Dougie93 said: this is not that Canada anymore the government bureaucrats have been elevated to an aristocracy now literally everybody else will be out of work, except the bureaucrats the bureaucrats now can bypass the constitution to impose martial law under false pretense and seize property without court order they are like the KGB in Canada now Canada in the 1970s, with the War Measures Act in Québec, was not the utopia you imagine it to be. It never was an utopia. It is imperfect and also I think it is reformable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 Just now, QuebecOverCanada said: I think it is reformable. I predict that will require a violent counterrevolution in the streets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: I predict that will require a violent counterrevolution in the streets You think it's that bad, compared to before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: Canada in the 1970s, with the War Measures Act in Québec, was not the utopia you imagine it to be. I grew up in the 70's, I never said it was an utopia but you've had a quiet revolution in government of late where the bureaucrats have seized total power for themselves I don't think they will be unseated without a revolt in the streets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: You think it's that bad, compared to before? yes because since 9-11 they've changed all the laws the amount of force the entrenched interests could employ to defend their rule is exponentially greater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: I grew up in the 70's, I never said it was an utopia but you've had a quiet revolution in government of late where the bureaucrats have seized total power for themselves I don't think they will be unseated without a revolt in the streets I think corruption exists in my province at higher and lesser degrees depending on which sectors. It is a real problem, but I don't think a violent revolution would bring your desired results, otherwise France would have become the most efficient State in the World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: yes because since 9-11 they've changed all the laws the amount of force the entrenched interests could employ to defend their rule is exponentially greater The people about us who control you and me already, do they want you to be content, and not threatening, and stay in their dominant position, or to make it as bad as possible for you so that you revolt? Are the people at the top interested in money, or are they sadistic sociopaths that want people's blood like vampires? I think some nuances in your reasoning should be brought, because the system is clearly broken in many ways, but I don't think being too dark or white helps thinking outside the box and finding concrete solutions to our issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 18, 2022 Report Share Posted September 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: The people about us who control you and me already, do they want you to be content, and not threatening, and stay in their dominant position, or to make it as bad as possible for you so that you revolt ? the situation will become very bad because of the economy the working & middle classes are going to become increasingly desperate as they start to agitate and protest, the entrenched interests will crack down ever more, as a reflex eventually it explodes into civil disorder the Truckers were just the canary in the coalmine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the Truckers were just the canary in the coalmine I find them to be actually the light at the end of the tunnel we were in back in early January of this year. Since their protest, the COVID movement has become irrelevant. No one wants to be brought back in lockdowns anymore and many of the laws that were voted for simply disappeared or are not arbitrarily applied like in the last 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: Are the people at the top interested in money, or are they sadistic sociopaths that want people's blood like vampires? it's not so much money they have evolved into an aristocracy a ruling elite they won't give that up willingly it's more about power than money and protecting their feathered nests, perks, privileges, & prerogatives most of all that they are above the law, not subject to the draconian laws that they impose on the rest of us although there are certainly some sadistic sociopaths, those tend to rise to the very top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 Just now, Dougie93 said: it's not so much money they have evolved into an aristocracy a ruling elite they won't give that up willingly it's more about power than money and protecting their feathered nests, perks, privileges, & prerogatives This is something that exists since when...? I don't know. But with your knowledge of History, I'm sure you know you're describing what we call Royalty. Aristocracy has been existing forever and in many forms. Many people in society will forever have privileges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: This is something that exists since when...? I don't know. But with your knowledge of History, I'm sure you know you're describing what we call Royalty. Aristocracy has been existing forever and in many forms. Many people in society will forever have privileges. you know the 1927 novel by Julien Benda : La Trahison des Clercs ? "In 1927, the French essayist Julien Benda published his famous attack on the intellectual corruption of the age, La Trahison des Clercs. [He used] “clerc” in “the medieval sense,” i.e., to mean “scribe,” someone we would now call a member of the intelligentsia. Academics and journalists, pundits, moralists, and pontificators of all varieties are in this sense clercs. The “treason” in question was the betrayal by the “clerks” of their vocation as intellectuals" that is Canada now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: you know the 1927 novel by Julien Benda : La Trahison des Clercs ? "In 1927, the French essayist Julien Benda published his famous attack on the intellectual corruption of the age, La Trahison des Clercs. [He used] “clerc” in “the medieval sense,” i.e., to mean “scribe,” someone we would now call a member of the intelligentsia. Academics and journalists, pundits, moralists, and pontificators of all varieties are in this sense clercs. The “treason” in question was the betrayal by the “clerks” of their vocation as intellectuals" that is Canada now Has it ever not been that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: Has it ever not been that way? no, it wasn't like this in Canada before the intellectuals class in Canada have been corrupted only since 2008 actually it's the Quantitative Easing money printing moral hazard the entirely debt based economy is inherently corrupting everybody is a crony, a sycophant, just to survive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said: Has it ever not been that way? the most glaring example is the press it's not a free press anymore they rely on the money printed and handed out by the government entrenched interests just to survive this is a very recent development the treason is that rather than holding the powerful accountable they are cheerleaders & lapdogs for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted September 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, herbie said: Not giving them more money, giving them the money they get anyway with one bureaucracy. And eliminating the need for any more emergency CERB like things in the future. Ans what all you Free Enterprisers forget is that the economy IS the amount of money changing hands. Not the amount that sits in one place. Like I pointed out before, the Welfare money gets spent. And YOU benefit from it too. I dont benefit from it. I'm paying much more now and haven't seen a wage increase... the wealthy are who benefit from it because they can charge more for goods and services now And money doesn't just "sit in one place". When you buy stocks that money is invested into creating new goods. Thats how the economy works ? Edited September 19, 2022 by West Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted September 19, 2022 Report Share Posted September 19, 2022 The economy is not the stock market. Where do you think that money your paying goes to, taxes? FFS recently the gas tax went up two cents and the price went up almost a whole dollar. Speculation and greed in a field most working people can't afford to dabble in themselves. Of course it's the wealthy that benefit most, and that's the system you're touting as a solution. Here you are more or less claiming that welfare drives up the cost to you, when if you were just a peon with a hot dog cart, welfare people could buy one of your hot dogs. Or buy one you stuffed for 40 hours a week in the factory or owned the whole damn factory. Something Henry Ford knew 100 years ago. Now admit it, a UBI is a far more efficient way to handle gov't payments and quit dancing around the point with distractions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 20, 2022 Report Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/19/2022 at 12:46 PM, herbie said: Now admit it, a UBI is a far more efficient way to handle gov't payments and quit dancing around the point with distractions. It would be a lot simpler if detractors of the UBI were honest about their real objection to it - free money for people. Ironically their dancing around the point is about the most inefficient way of getting to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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