Another Mass Shooting

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Bullshit, You cherry pick one year when Norway had a single shooting that killed 67.

nope you picked the data

you cherry picked it

take the 67 away and Norway still has more mass shooting deaths relative to population

same with France

clearly your more guns and less gun control are the main drivers of mass shootings narrative is false

based on your own cherry picked data

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[ExFlyer]

23 minutes ago, Zijlstra said:

And it was Joe Biden who introduced that legislation and got all those schoolkids murdered.

Huh???

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

nope you picked the data

you cherry picked it

take the 67 away and Norway still has more mass shooting deaths relative to population

same with France

clearly your more guns and less gun control are the main drivers of mass shootings narrative is false

based on your own cherry picked data

No I didn't, you picked one year 2011.  How many mass shootings has the US had in the last 11 years?  How many in the last year, or for that matter, this year?

[OftenWrong]

57 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So are you going to shoot it out with some gang bangers if you happen to get caught in one of their gang related shootouts?

I just don't go to those places. But given the situation, would I prefer to have a gun, or not? Answer should be obvious.

[Yzermandius19]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

No I didn't, you picked one year 2011.  How many mass shootings has the US had in the last 11 years?  How many in the last year, or for that matter, this year?

your data is from 2022

it doesn't include 2011

and if you average the rate over multiple years

it still holds

Norway has more mass shootings relative to it's population than America and you have no data that suggests otherwise

also explain France

if mass shootings are all about gun control and number of guns, why are France's numbers also higher than America's?

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I just don't go to those places. But given the situation, would I prefer to have a gun, or not? Answer should be obvious.

Good plan but what good would your gun do other than make you an intentional target of these people. You think that if you pulled a gun they aren't going to aim at you as well. Instead of being a bystander caught in a crossfire, you become an actual target. That should also be obvious.

[Aristides]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

your data is from 2022

it doesn't include 2011

and if you average the rate over multiple years

it still holds

Norway has more mass shootings per 100k than America and you have no data that suggests otherwise

Data that only covered a period ending in 2015, heavily Influenced by one shooting in 2011   I'll ask again, how many has the US had in the last 11 years, in the last year, even in this year?

Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Data that only covered a period ending in 2015, heavily Influenced by one shooting in 2011   I'll ask again, how many has the US had in the last 11 years, in the last year, even in this year?

your talking point is outdated by 11 years

one shooting is not skewing the data that much

the sample size is too large to claim that now

but you'll keep repeating this discredited talking point until you die, no doubt

you'll never let data interfere with your narrative

even your own data

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Aristides]

4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

your talking point is outdated by 11 years

one shooting is not skewing the data that much

the sample size is too large to claim that now

but you'll keep repeating this discredited talking point until you die, no doubt

you'll never let data interfere with your narrative

even your own data

Your talking point is out of date by 11 years and your so called data ended 7 years ago.

[OftenWrong]

14 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Good plan but what good would your gun do other than make you an intentional target of these people. You think that if you pulled a gun they aren't going to aim at you as well. Instead of being a bystander caught in a crossfire, you become an actual target. That should also be obvious.

Since I never go to big cities, I never need to think of these things. Must be tough to live there.

Obviously I don't give a hootin who does what to whom, I would just duck and hide. But if some slimeball were to enter the room where I'm in and start gunning people down, I would prefer to have a gun at that moment and I would at some point take the chance and try to blow the perpetrator away.

While others cowering under the table may assuredly kiss their own arses good bye.

That should be obvious...

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

You said "Section 7 of the Charter gun rights exist in Canada too" and

"guns certainly qualify as part of personal security

 

I never said anything of the sort. You are quoting the wrong person.

Quote

Section 7 has nothing to do with guns, let alone indicating you can have or carry or use them.

Yes, we agree. 

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Since I never go to big cities, I never need to think of these things. Must be tough to live there.

Obviously I don't give a hootin who does what to whom, I would just duck and hide. But if some slimeball were to enter the room where I'm in and start gunning people down, I would prefer to have a gun at that moment and I would at some point take the chance and try to blow the perpetrator away.

While others cowering under the table may assuredly kiss their own arses good bye.

That should be obvious...

Most of Canada's mass shootings have happened in rural areas or smaller cities. At least three of them have actually targeted police.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Aristides

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Your talking point is out of date by 11 years and your so called data ended 7 years ago.

the data did not end 7 years ago

if you don't think there is any mass shootings data after 2015

you're even dumber than I thought

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Most of Canada's mass shootings have happened in rural areas or smaller cities. At least three of them have actually targeted police.

Yeah but that statistic is misleading. There really hasn't been a lot to draw much of a conclusion. But in terms of general gun violence in cities it's a very different picture.

[Aristides]

10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the data did not end 7 years ago

if you don't think there is any mass shootings data after 2015

you're even dumber than I thought

 

Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):

United States — 0.058

Albania — 0

Austria — 0

Belgium — 0

Czech Republic — 0

Finland — 0

France — 0

Germany — 0

Italy — 0

Macedonia — 0

Netherlands — 0

Norway — 0

Russia — 0

Serbia — 0

Slovakia — 0

Switzerland — 0

United Kingdom — 0

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 

Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):

United States — 0.058

Albania — 0

Austria — 0

Belgium — 0

Czech Republic — 0

Finland — 0

France — 0

Germany — 0

Italy — 0

Macedonia — 0

Netherlands — 0

Norway — 0

Russia — 0

Serbia — 0

Slovakia — 0

Switzerland — 0

United Kingdom — 0

you posted data from 2022 as well

those numbers paint a very different picture

and the above are clearly fake

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you posted data from 2022 as well

those numbers paint a very different picture

and the above are clearly fake

Whatever.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Whatever.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/mass-shootings-by-country

again you post numbers from 2022

that show both Norway and France with higher mass shootings per million than America

proving the data did not end in 2015

do you even look at what you're posting?

you are making a total and complete fool of yourself

Edited August 1, 2022 by Yzermandius19

[Aristides]

28 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yeah but that statistic is misleading. There really hasn't been a lot to draw much of a conclusion. But in terms of general gun violence in cities it's a very different picture.

Not really if you bother to check. Mass shootings among gang bangers aren't really a thing, with the notable exception of the Surrey Six, two of whom were not gang involved.

 

[Aristides]

12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

again you post numbers from 2022

that show both Norway and France with higher mass shootings per million than America

proving the data did not end in 2015

do you even look at what you're posting?

you are making a total and complete fool of yourself

No, the article used 2022 population figures, the homicide data was from the period 2009 to 2015. Read much?

[ExFlyer]

48 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I never said anything of the sort. You are quoting the wrong person.

Yes, we agree. 

You are correct. My mistake. (

It was meant for Yzermandius19.     

[Warlord369]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:14 PM, ExFlyer said:

I cannot understand or even come to grips with the American ethos that they are not completely enraged with te nass shootings in their country.

Another one after a NBA Game  https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/20-injured-in-milwaukee-shootings-after-bucks-playoff-game/ar-AAXgAKA?ocid=EMMX&cvid=e2c7d10e65934fe6a2407d50102ec027

 

Over 150 so far this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2022

What is wrong down there??

 

 

No one said it is not insane but taking guns is still bullshit. maybe lock the criminals up and keep them there instead of throwing out slaps on the wrist for anything people do?

 

[BeaverFever]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:52 AM, ExFlyer said:

Not sure what you are trying to convey. The link you provided indicates Switzerland is quite safe and has very good gun control measures.

Your link says "Switzerland still has one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe, and suicides account for most gun deaths in the country." but does not provide any statistics. Far form mass shooting and crimes involving guns.

It also says "In 2016, the country had 47 attempted homicides with firearms. The country's overall murder rate is near zero."

Two concepts:

1) rate of gun ownership: higher  rates leads to higher gun crime 

2) level  of gun control: higher rates lead to LOWER gun crime

Switzerland has higher ownership most than European counterparts (who also have strict gun control in addition to lower rates of ownership)  so has higher gun crime but it also has strict gun control so still far less than USA    
 

The false comparison that Yzer is trying to make is that Switzerland has high ownership therefore must not have much gun control which is false.   

 

[BeaverFever]

On 8/1/2022 at 3:36 AM, Yzermandius19 said:

like the violent crime rate

like the homicide rate

like the acceptability of using violence to resolve disputes

like the acceptability of using gun violence to resolve disputes

like socioeconomic conditions

like mental health differences

like the influence of the media

etc.

 

why would just assume gun control is the primary difference maker?

particularly to the point that you feel it necessary to make jokes about how little the impact of other factors is on gun crime?

 

Norway has more mass shootings per 100k than America

Norway has far more gun control than America and far less guns

if gun control was the primary difference maker in gun crime to the degree you suggest

and a wide variety of other factors could be hand waved away as you did in the above post

then how do you explain that?

Well it’s true that America is a cesspool riddled with mental health and socioeconomic problems but other countries have those problems too and their people don’t go on shooting sprees  Their homicidal maniacs run around with knives not AR-15s and the victims of their attacks  - if any - are counted in the low single digits not by the dozen  

 

The Norway claim is hilarious. You’re using Norway’s one mass shooting in 2011 by a RIGHT-WING extremist and it’s relatively small population to suggest it’s more violent than USA.  

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Well it’s true that America is a cesspool riddled with mental health and socioeconomic problems but other countries have those problems too and their people don’t go on shooting sprees  Their homicidal maniacs run around with knives not AR-15s and the victims of their attacks  - if any - are counted in the low single digits not by the dozen  

 

The Norway claim is hilarious. You’re using Norway’s one mass shooting in 2011 by a RIGHT-WING extremist and it’s relatively small population to suggest it’s more violent than USA.  

nope

take out the one shooting

and Norway still has more mass shootings per capita than America

mass shootings are a cultural thing

not a legal thing

it's the culture that drives them, not gun control

Edited August 4, 2022 by Yzermandius19