Make it Known, Canadians Will Start Boycotting Vaccines

[ironstone]

27 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Actually, a few childish truckers and their idiot helpers are holding a whole country ransom. What's it like in your alternate universe, it must be very scary.

I don't agree with all the tactics used by the truckers, blocking roads, blaring horns well into the night, closing borders. I'm not entirely without sympathy to the truckers either. 

If it were another group doing these same actions, Trudeau might react in a polar opposite way. BLM has used much worse tactics in the US for example and they will not hesitate to use violence as a means to an end, but Trudeau loves BLM.

Xi Jinping has got to be smiling now watching all the worldwide civil unrest thanks to unleashing this virus on us. He's the real culprit.

[ironstone]

As bad as Trudeau may be, and he is bad, things could always get worse for Canadians.

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, TrudeauSucks said:

1. It's the right of every indivual to decide what goes in there body.
2. The government can't force anyone to take a vaccine they don't want.
3. If you take away those checks and balances,
4. we're on the path to totalitarianism.
5. I don't want the government forcing me to take any vaccine I don't want during future pandemics.

1. No that is not true.
2. I don't know if that's true or not but it hasn't been tested in exactly this way.  For sure there was a case where a judge forced a blood transfusion on someone (I belive)
3. What "checks and balances" ?  You haven't mentioned any.
4. We're not.  We heard this with security surveillance too and it didn't come to pass.
5. They don't force you.  You can opt out but if you work for them, or in a regulated environment you have to follow the rules.
 

[Aristides]

21 minutes ago, TrudeauSucks said:

When will liberals get it in their F@cking heads. "Freedom - Not Authoritarianism" If you're worried about getting sick or catching the cold, than you should be the one hiding in your own basement, while the rest of us get on with our lives.

What is keeping you from getting on with your life? Be specific.

[Aristides]

29 minutes ago, TrudeauSucks said:

Do you want to convince each trucker one by one to leave?

 

He will probably have to walk when he does leave.

[West]

16 minutes ago, ironstone said:

As bad as Trudeau may be, and he is bad, things could always get worse for Canadians.

At least with Jughead we know he's a terrorist sympathizer. Trudeau tends to mask that. 

[Moonbox]

34 minutes ago, West said:

So force someone to do something against their will which will have statistically no impact on Covid. Makes sense.

That's faulty logic and you could make the same argument for every individual in the country.  "Why do I have to get the vaccine?  It would have statistically no impact on COVID."

You don't provide exceptions to the truckers just because they're a small portion of the population, just like you don't provide individual exceptions without good reason.  The truckers don't have a good reason and their economic argument is balogna, so they really don't have a case besides freeeeedom.  
 

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, TrudeauSucks said:

Michael the conspiracy is in broad day light. What is it going to take you to wake up? Trudeau is acting like vaccinating 16000 trucks is going to end the pandemic. If 85% of the Canadian population are vaccinated, getting an extra 16000 vaccinated only pushes that number up to 85.05%.

Since the vaccine barely works against Omicron, what difference does it makes? The Omicron wave is on decline, yet Trudeau wants to push Canada to the brink of Civil war over 0.05% of the Canadian population. If that doesn't seem like a conspiracy to you, I don't know what does.

Actually boosters have shown to be very effective against Omicron. Sorry about that but I guess you want to turn the clock back to when there  were no vaccines and we were all quarantining. Canada is not on the brink of civil war, these blockades do not have popular support and the more people who lose their jobs because of them, the less popular they will be.  Blaming Trudeau and claiming the devil made me do it will not justify their actions.

[West]

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

That's faulty logic and you could make the same argument for every individual in the country.  "Why do I have to get the vaccine?  It would have statistically no impact on COVID."

You don't provide exceptions to the truckers just because they're a small portion of the population, just like you don't provide individual exceptions without good reason.  The truckers don't have a good reason and their economic argument is balogna, so they really don't have a case besides freeeeedom.  
 

In most cases they'd be right ?. Again the vast majority of severe covid cases are already extremely I'll to begin with. 80% of covid deaths are long term care which 60% of those in long term care pass away within a year. 

I have yet to hear a valid reason why the average person who's healthy person should be mandated to vaccinate. Seems strange. Likely driven by profit of some sort I'd imagine. 

If you care to take a stab at answering that, go ahead. Seems most will dance around the point 

[West]

10 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Actually boosters have shown to be very effective against Omicron. Sorry about that but I guess you want to turn the clock back to when there  were no vaccines and we were all quarantining. Canada is not on the brink of civil war, these blockades do not have popular support and the more people who lose their jobs because of them, the less popular they will be.  Blaming Trudeau and claiming the devil made me do it will not justify their actions.

I took two shots second being in June. By November they told me to take a third. 

A booster every three months would suggest the vaccines are in fact NOT working. Then you have many tripple vaxxed coming down with Covid. MOre like the manufacturer trying to cover up the ineffectiveness of their product than anything. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[Moonbox]

7 minutes ago, West said:

In most cases they'd be right ?. Again the vast majority of severe covid cases are already extremely I'll to begin with. 80% of covid deaths are long term care which 60% of those in long term care pass away within a year. 

I have yet to hear a valid reason why the average person who's healthy person should be mandated to vaccinate. Seems strange. Likely driven by profit of some sort I'd imagine. 

If you care to take a stab at answering that, go ahead. Seems most will dance around the point 

You've had the reasons explained too many times to count.  The reason is that unvaccinated people are taking up a disproportionately high share of hospital space, which is expensive and causes problems across the health care system.  If the 10% of unvaccinated people were only 10% of the ICU cases, you'd have an argument, but that's not the case.  Instead, the rate that they're taking up expensive hospital space is something between 15-25x the vaccinated population.  That's all the reason you need, but the fact that they transmit the virus more easily makes it even more obvious. 

The fact that you don't like this information or you just deny it outright doesn't really mean anything.  

[West]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You've had the reasons explained too many times to count.  The reason is that unvaccinated people are taking up a disproportionately high share of hospital space, which is expensive and causes problems across the health care system.  If the 10% of unvaccinated people were only 10% of the ICU cases, you'd have an argument, but that's not the case.  Instead, the rate that they're taking up expensive hospital space is something between 15-25x the vaccinated population.  That's all the reason you need, but the fact that they transmit the virus more easily makes it even more obvious. 

The fact that you don't like this information or you just deny it outright doesn't really mean anything.  

But your explanations are flat outvfalse and you've already been shown that. 

The vaccinated are still filling roughly 80% of covid related hospital beds. 

And... not every unvaccinated person is equal. The vast majority will be able to ride it out at home for a week or so.. which you also fail to acknowledge

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[West]

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You've had the reasons explained too many times to count.  The reason is that unvaccinated people are taking up a disproportionately high share of hospital space, which is expensive and causes problems across the health care system.  If the 10% of unvaccinated people were only 10% of the ICU cases, you'd have an argument, but that's not the case.  Instead, the rate that they're taking up expensive hospital space is something between 15-25x the vaccinated population.  That's all the reason you need, but the fact that they transmit the virus more easily makes it even more obvious. 

The fact that you don't like this information or you just deny it outright doesn't really mean anything.  

You also aren't recognizing the discriminatory testing that's been taking place to get a desired narrative.

[Moonbox]

9 minutes ago, West said:

But your explanations are flat outvfalse and you've already been shown that. 

The vaccinated are still filling roughly 80% of covid related hospital beds. 

Show me.  Where are you sources?  Literally everything I've read has shown the exact opposite.  

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-4-183-patients-in-hospital-with-covid-19-at-least-580-in-the-icu-1.5744353

"In the ICU, 196 patients are fully vaccinated, 195 patients are unvaccinated, and 17 patients are partially vaccinated."

If your response is to rail against CTV news or whatever, don't bother.  I'm just going to roll my eyes.  

9 minutes ago, West said:

And... not every unvaccinated person is equal. The vast majority will be able to ride it out at home for a week or so.. which you also fail to acknowledge

Don't care.  Too bad.  Live with it for a few weeks.  Those people can deal with the consequences of their choices like everyone else has to.  They have cost the rest of us a lot of money in health care costs, taxes and a prolonged COVID pain so sympathy for them is pretty low across the country.  

Here's a chart from the Record for a nice easy breakdown.  The numbers couldn't really be presented more clearly.  

Edited February 11, 2022 by Moonbox

[West]

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Show me.  Where are you sources?  Literally everything I've read has shown the exact opposite.  

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-reports-4-183-patients-in-hospital-with-covid-19-at-least-580-in-the-icu-1.5744353

"In the ICU, 196 patients are fully vaccinated, 195 patients are unvaccinated, and 17 patients are partially vaccinated."

If your response is to rail against CTV news or whatever, don't bother.  I'm just going to roll my eyes.  

Don't care.  Too bad.  Live with it for a few weeks.  Those people can deal with the consequences of their choices like everyone else has to.  They have cost the rest of us a lot of money in health care costs, taxes and a prolonged COVID pain so sympathy for them is pretty low across the country.  

Here's a chart from the Record for a nice easy breakdown.  The numbers couldn't really be presented more clearly.  

From your article: 

This is important

"Of the patients in hospital, 53.5 per cent were admitted due to a COVID-19-related illness and 46.5 per cent tested positive after they were admitted for another reason."

No? 

The discrepancies in hospitalizations are probably due to: 

1. The time frame in which a unvaxxed vs a vaxxed has to isolate (10 days at that time for a vaxxed, 14 days for an unvaxxed) 

and 

2. The screening criteria for hospitalizations (likely more stringent for an unvaccinated person due to faulty assumptions)

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[Aristides]

32 minutes ago, West said:

I took two shots second being in June. By November they told me to take a third. 

A booster every three months would suggest the vaccines are in fact NOT working. Then you have many tripple vaxxed coming down with Covid. MOre like the manufacturer trying to cover up the ineffectiveness of their product than anything. 

They are getting infected but not getting sick. They are working. So what if you need periodic boosters, would you turn them down if it was the bubonic plague. Anyway, if you get sick that's your problem unless you end up in hospital, then you are everyone's problem.

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, West said:

From your article: 

This is important

"Of the patients in hospital, 53.5 per cent were admitted due to a COVID-19-related illness and 46.5 per cent tested positive after they were admitted for another reason."

No? 

The discrepancies in hospitalizations are probably due to: 

1. The time frame in which a unvaxxed vs a vaxxed has to isolate (10 days at that time for a vaxxed, 14 days for an unvaxxed) 

and 

2. The screening criteria for hospitalizations (likely more stringent for an unvaccinated person due to faulty assumptions)

Screening criteria is the same for all patients in our hospital, vaccinated or not. PCR test when you are admitted and every time you are moved to a different ward within the hospital. Been that way for at least a year that I know of.

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Somehow this ex-drama teacher has managed to become a dictator with a minority government and no gangs of brown shirted thugs beating people up, or secret police making people disappear.

He has managed to do something no modern dictator has ever done. 

It was easy for Trudeau . . . . . we're a population of 'Michaels'.

[West]

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Screening criteria is the same for all patients in our hospital, vaccinated or not. PCR test when you are admitted and every time you are moved to a different ward within the hospital. Been that way for at least a year that I know of.

OK but you are potentially still considered "covid positive" for an additional four days in the hospital. 

You don't think that's relevant?

Seems to me it might account for that 16% difference in cases between vaxxed and unvaxxed

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[Moonbox]

7 minutes ago, West said:

From your article: 

This is important

"Of the patients in hospital, 53.5 per cent were admitted due to a COVID-19-related illness and 46.5 per cent tested positive after they were admitted for another reason."

No? 

No.  It also says:

"In the ICU, 82.1 per cent of the patients were admitted for COVID-19 while 17.9 per cent tested positive after the fact."

So it's less than 20% of the serious cases are getting sick with COVID after entering, which would have little impact over the numbers.  What that actually tells us is that though infection rates and spread are high at the hospitals (which is predictable given the concentration of COVID patients), the overwhelming majority of the serious cases are coming from outside and, as was already posted, they're disproportionately coming from the unvaccinated population.  

Regardless, the extra analysis you're providing is gobbledygook.  I'm not sure if it's intentional obfuscating or you're just struggling with the reality, but explanations like the following are silly:

7 minutes ago, West said:

 

The discrepancies in hospitalizations are probably due to: 

1. The time frame in which a unvaxxed vs a vaxxed has to isolate (10 days at that time for a vaxxed, 14 days for an unvaxxed) 

and 

2. The screening criteria for hospitalizations (likely more stringent for an unvaccinated person due to faulty assumptions)

The screening is irrelevant.  What we're talking about is who ends up seriously ill and taking up ICU beds.  Extra screening doesn't make your COVID more severe, nor does extra isolating.   

[West]

6 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No.  It also says:

"In the ICU, 82.1 per cent of the patients were admitted for COVID-19 while 17.9 per cent tested positive after the fact."

So it's less than 20% of the serious cases are getting sick with COVID after entering, which would have little impact over the numbers.  What that actually tells us is that though infection rates and spread are high at the hospitals (which is predictable given the concentration of COVID patients), the overwhelming majority of the serious cases are coming from outside and, as was already posted, they're disproportionately coming from the unvaccinated population.  

Regardless, the extra analysis you're providing is gobbledygook.  I'm not sure if it's intentional obfuscating or you're just struggling with the reality, but explanations like the following are silly:

The screening is irrelevant.  What we're talking about is who ends up seriously ill and taking up ICU beds.  Extra screening doesn't make your COVID more severe, nor does extra isolating.   

If you are considered positive for an additional 4 days while in hospital if you are unvaxxed, that is very relevant even if you don't understand it. Not really gobbledygook to examine what the statistics mean.

Again the vast majority of those who end up in an icu bed have multiple comorbidities. Also relevant to whether or not you should fire a healthy person over a vaccine

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[Moonbox]

4 minutes ago, West said:

If you are considered positive for an additional 4 days while in hospital if you are unvaxxed, that is very relevant even if you don't understand it. Not really gobbledygook to examine what the statistics mean.

Examine the statistics, by all means.  It's smart to do so.  The problem is that you haven't provided any relevant information that examines case severity and ICU admission by vaccination status.  How does this improve your argument regarding the disproportionate share of unvaccinated ICU admission?

4 minutes ago, West said:

Again the vast majority of those who end up in an icu bed have multiple comorbidities. Also relevant to whether or not you should fire a healthy person over a vaccine

Again, this is irrelevant noise.  Comorbidities would be more or less equal across vaccinated or unvaccinated population.  Once again, this provides no useful information towards explaining why the unvaccinated are disproportionately clogging the ICU (at something like 10-20x the rate of the vaccinated population.)  

It's a good thing that you're digging deeper into the numbers, but you have to synthesize that information into something that actually supports your argument, otherwise it's just extra noise and confusion - or gobbledygook.  

[West]

11 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Examine the statistics, by all means.  It's smart to do so.  The problem is that you haven't provided any relevant information that examines case severity and ICU admission by vaccination status.  How does this improve your argument regarding the disproportionate share of unvaccinated ICU admission?

Again, this is irrelevant noise.  Comorbidities would be more or less equal across vaccinated or unvaccinated population.  Once again, this provides no useful information towards explaining why the unvaccinated are disproportionately clogging the ICU (at something like 10-20x the rate of the vaccinated population.)  

It's a good thing that you're digging deeper into the numbers, but you have to synthesize that information into something that actually supports your argument, otherwise it's just extra noise and confusion - or gobbledygook.  

1. I have actually problem is you folks shift the goal posts repeatedly. Use the big scary "hospitalization" numbers when you want to appeal to fear. When I point out some of the discrepancies in hospitalizations between vaxxed and unvaxxed is because of government policy, you go on the attack right away. Not sure how you have a discussion with folks like that.

I'm not exactly sure what your point is about ICU admissions. The people who typically hit the ICU due to covid are those with significant preexisting conditions. I fail to see how this point is irrelevant. 

You folks go on and on about "the unvaccinated" clogging up beds. It shows how little you understand to be honest. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by West

[Aristides]

I find it hilarious (in a very sad way) that you guys want to go back over a year to when we had no vaccines. Just what do you think would happen if we did?

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

It was easy for Trudeau . . . . . we're a population of 'Michaels'.

Oh bullshit, we are a population that looks after each other, with some very noisy exceptions.