Heart and cancer surgeries are being cancelled because beds are filled with those who chose not to be vaccinated. Unacceptable.

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

In spite of virus mutations and vaccine waned most recent data from Washington State Department of Health shows highly effective vaccine results especially in vulnerable 65+ age.

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

 

Looks like old data to me. They are still claiming unvaxxed are catching it way more than vaxxed which is clearly not the case in any areas that Omicron has hit. Maybe Washington State hasn’t had Omicron yet?

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

Looks like old data to me. They are still claiming unvaxxed are catching it way more than vaxxed which is clearly not the case in any areas that Omicron has hit. Maybe Washington State hasn’t had Omicron yet?

So  no Omicron in Washington state!!!!!!

Most recent study in England showing effectiveness of vaccines against Delta variant but also effectiveness of booster mRNA vaccines against Omicron infection

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/monitoring-reports-of-the-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccination

.

Edited January 9, 2022 by CITIZEN_2015

[Accountability Now]

31 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So  no Omicron in Washington state!!!!!!

I wasn’t stating it, I was asking. Hence the question mark after the words. 
 

Any other place I’ve seen with Omicron has a large amount of vaccinated people getting infected. I guess Washington State is the one anomaly in the world?

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

I wasn’t stating it, I was asking. Hence the question mark after the words. 
 

Any other place I’ve seen with Omicron has a large amount of vaccinated people getting infected. I guess Washington State is the one anomaly in the world?

Yes study after study indicate that two dose vaccine has little efficacy on preventing infection but rather effective to reduce (not prevent) serious illness. Statistics show reducing ICU by a factor of 7 and reducing hospitalization by a factor of 3.4. Since we got fully vaccinated people 7 times the number of unvaccinated hence ICU numbers are almost equal. 

The good news and latest research on booster shot however shows that they appear to be even effective against infection by Omicron (I believe about 70%) up to one month after and at this time they don't know for how long this high efficacy will last.

[Accountability Now]

22 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yes study after study indicate that two dose vaccine has little efficacy on preventing infection but rather effective to reduce (not prevent) serious illness.

For how long though does this protection against serious illness last? 

17 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Since we got fully vaccinated people 7 times the number of unvaccinated hence ICU numbers are almost equal. 

LOL. A few months ago everyone was talking about the cases being the issue such that the unvaxxed had a significantly higher percentage. Then they moved on to hospitalizations as the numbers were still there to support that. Now, the only category left to parrot is the ICU which like you said are almost equal. However, like the other two categories, you should be watching the rates of change and not necessarily the numbers themselves. For example, in Ontario a month or two back the ICU percentages were roughly 10% fully vaxxed and 90% unvaxxed.  Today its almost equal. What do you think tomorrow will bring?

[Winston]

 

38 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The good news and latest research on booster shot however shows that they appear to be even effective against infection by Omicron (I believe about 70%) up to one month after and at this time they don't know for how long this high efficacy will last.

From my understanding effectiveness of the original vaccine against Omicron is quite low, do you have the latest research cite?

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

For how long though does this protection against serious illness last? 

LOL. A few months ago everyone was talking about the cases being the issue such that the unvaxxed had a significantly higher percentage. Then they moved on to hospitalizations as the numbers were still there to support that. Now, the only category left to parrot is the ICU which like you said are almost equal. However, like the other two categories, you should be watching the rates of change and not necessarily the numbers themselves. For example, in Ontario a month or two back the ICU percentages were roughly 10% fully vaxxed and 90% unvaxxed.  Today its almost equal. What do you think tomorrow will bring?

This is the nature of virus. It mutes. We have to live based on present tense data Nobody know about tomorrow otherwise I buy the winning lottery and become a millionerd overnight. 

[Accountability Now]

40 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

We have to live based on present tense data

The present tense data is showing these vaccines do not stop infection. They’re very close to showing they don’t stop hospitalizations. I’m guessing in a few weeks we will see they don’t stop ICU infections either. 
 

I can agree that boosters will return some of that protection but I’ve heard it only lasts 10 weeks. Then what? Another booster? And another?  

[Aristides]

46 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

The present tense data is showing these vaccines do not stop infection. They’re very close to showing they don’t stop hospitalizations. I’m guessing in a few weeks we will see they don’t stop ICU infections either. 
 

I can agree that boosters will return some of that protection but I’ve heard it only lasts 10 weeks. Then what? Another booster? And another?  

Guess we will have to wait and see. Someone more suspicious might think you don't want them to work at all.

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

The present tense data is showing these vaccines do not stop infection. They’re very close to showing they don’t stop hospitalizations. I’m guessing in a few weeks we will see they don’t stop ICU infections either. 
 

I can agree that boosters will return some of that protection but I’ve heard it only lasts 10 weeks. Then what? Another booster? And another?  

I think the push should be on better treatments for this damn virus. I hear that Pfizer's pills are about 90% effective if taken early enough.  Patents should be removed for mass production of vaccines and treatments.

Do you have a better solution please present it. But rejecting all available means does not solve any problem. 

[Accountability Now]

57 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Guess we will have to wait and see. Someone more suspicious might think you don't want them to work at all.

Actually that’s not true at all. I hoped the vaccines worked like true vaccines and prevented infection. I was truly hoping that by September  we’d be past this thing however the one thing that worries me about the vaccine from the start actually came true. It only works for a while and then you’re back to square 1. I told my friends that if everyone in the world could take their shots all at once then I’d get it. That of course wasn’t possible so we now see it circulate. 

[Accountability Now]

38 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Do you have a better solution please present it. But rejecting all available means does not solve any problem. 

Yes. Acknowledge the weaknesses of the vaccine for what they are. Also acknowledge who’s truly at risk and focus on them. The rest is all done in vain

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

It only works for a while and then you’re back to square 1.

Like influenza every year except COVID is still too novel to say it's the same as a flu.

14 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Yes. Acknowledge the weaknesses of the vaccine for what they are. Also acknowledge who’s truly at risk and focus on them. The rest is all done in vain

This could work I suppose if we have 2-3 times as many hospitals and medical workers.  Otherwise and until the novelty wears off or a lot of people will likely get sick and die. I have no problem getting a shot annually or even bi-annually.  What we're really hoping for most is that the novelty and severity of illness wears off so we can start behaving more like its just the flu.   

[Nationalist]

18 hours ago, Aristides said:

Ya, the medical profession knows nothing about disease, how many are in hospitals, what they are suffering from or what treatments work, we need more experts like you to tell us. You're hilarious. When you are on an aircraft do you also tell the pilot he doesn't know what he is doing and you should be flying?

And you're obviously a blank slate.

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And you're obviously a blank slate.

No, but I know when I need to defer to the professionals who specialize in their fields. I don't just assume they are lying just because I don't understand how they come to their conclusions. 

[Aristides]

13 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

Actually that’s not true at all. I hoped the vaccines worked like true vaccines and prevented infection. I was truly hoping that by September  we’d be past this thing however the one thing that worries me about the vaccine from the start actually came true. It only works for a while and then you’re back to square 1. I told my friends that if everyone in the world could take their shots all at once then I’d get it. That of course wasn’t possible so we now see it circulate. 

Instead we have vaccines that while not preventing infections from some variants are still very good at preventing severe illness and hospitalization. What a bitch. We also now know that infection with a previous variant won't keep you from getting Omricon but will it protect you from severe illness or hospitalization? It looks like it may not so getting vaccinated is still important. Rather than being thankful for what we have you want a perfection we aren't going to get. Measurable antibodies do decline with time that doesn't take into account B and T cell immunity because they only produce antibodies when they actually detect the virus. The beauty of mRNA vaccines is they can be tailored for new variants in a very short time compared to conventional vaccines and new variants come from places with low vaccination rates.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Aristides

[Nationalist]

36 minutes ago, Aristides said:

No, but I know when I need to defer to the professionals who specialize in their fields. I don't just assume they are lying just because I don't understand how they come to their conclusions. 

Remdesivir, momoclonal antibodies, Dexamethasone, Convalescent plasma, Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, hell even Asprin.

There's a whole host of treatments that the medical profession have made impossible for doctors to prescribe. Why? Why are all the eggs in the vax basket? So now...finally...the FDA approves Remdesivir. They still insist on completely ignoring natural immunity.

So no...I do not trust nor believe the medical profession anymore. You would think with these treatments available, that they'd be pushing them in order to counteract the "evil unvaxxed". But that's not happening either.

You can go on with your blind faith in the medical profession and the media. That is your right. It is not your right to make life impossible for those who do not believe the medial profession or the media. That's called fascism, and will not be tolerated.

[Boges]

16 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

The present tense data is showing these vaccines do not stop infection. They’re very close to showing they don’t stop hospitalizations. I’m guessing in a few weeks we will see they don’t stop ICU infections either. 
 

I can agree that boosters will return some of that protection but I’ve heard it only lasts 10 weeks. Then what? Another booster? And another?  

Numbers don't indicate that it doesn't stop hospitalization or ICU occupancy. 

If the unvaxxed had severe illness at the same rate as the vaxxed then you'd see way more vaxxed people in the hospital. As 3/4 of the population is at least double vaxxed around around 1/4 are boosted. 

I would suggest many of the vaxxed hospitalizations would be due to these "In because" vs "In with" patients that are making gauging the severity of this wave difficult to evaluate. 

It, however, is unquestionable that Omicron can evade the initial defences a vaccine would provide. 

I'm unsure what level of protection against infection being boosted provides. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Boges

[Aristides]

46 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Remdesivir, momoclonal antibodies, Dexamethasone, Convalescent plasma, Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, hell even Asprin.

There's a whole host of treatments that the medical profession have made impossible for doctors to prescribe. Why? Why are all the eggs in the vax basket? So now...finally...the FDA approves Remdesivir. They still insist on completely ignoring natural immunity.

So no...I do not trust nor believe the medical profession anymore. You would think with these treatments available, that they'd be pushing them in order to counteract the "evil unvaxxed". But that's not happening either.

You can go on with your blind faith in the medical profession and the media. That is your right. It is not your right to make life impossible for those who do not believe the medial profession or the media. That's called fascism, and will not be tolerated.

None of those are proven for Covid although they may help. Monoclonal antibody treatments and some of the others you list cost thousands of dollars. Dexamethasone prevents swelling of the brain and is used for cancer patients with brain tumours. It also has long term side effects and has to be used with other special meds or it will eat your stomach lining. Aspirin? Give me a friggin break. Why don't you hang out your shingle, call yourself a doctor and join the other quacks if you are such an expert.

[Accountability Now]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Instead we have vaccines that while not preventing infections from some variants are still very good at preventing severe illness and hospitalization. What a bitch. 

Again....the current numbers just don't support your claim. You can keep deflecting all you want but it doesn't make it true. 

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, Aristides said:

None of those are proven for Covid although they may help. Monoclonal antibody treatments and some of the others you list cost thousands of dollars. Dexamethasone prevents swelling of the brain and is used for cancer patients with brain tumours. It also has long term side effects and has to be used with other special meds or it will eat your stomach lining. Aspirin? Give me a friggin break. Why don't you hang out your shingle, call yourself a doctor and join the other quacks if you are such an expert.

Yes. Aspirin. Search the net. Try educating yourself instead of relying on others to think for you.

Then there's the Hydroxychloroquine. My mother takes it and has done for years. No infections. No issues. My mother is 83.

Hydroxychloroquine  and Aspirin. Just 2 of the cheap drugs that work well against The Rona. Gee...so why doesn't the vaunted medical profession tell us this? I mean...this is GOOD news...for the public.

Not so good for the pharmaceuticals though eh? I would surmise that's the answer...nobody makes billions off cheap yet useful drugs.

[Accountability Now]

32 minutes ago, Boges said:

Numbers don't indicate that it doesn't stop hospitalization or ICU occupancy. 

If numbers don't then why have pro-vaxxers been flouting numbers for months now? 

32 minutes ago, Boges said:

If the unvaxxed had severe illness at the same rate as the vaxxed then you'd see way more vaxxed people in the hospital. As 3/4 of the population is at least double vaxxed around around 1/4 are boosted. 

This makes zero sense.  75% of being are double vaxxed and 70% of people are in the hospital. This isn't complex. Its very similar to the argument you and I had on the cases about a month ago where you kept showing me the arcs on the graph. Those arcs have now flipped and the hospitalizations are close to be the same. 

32 minutes ago, Boges said:

I would suggest many of the vaxxed hospitalizations would be due to these "In because" vs "In with" patients that are making gauging the severity of this wave difficult to evaluate.

Have you seen this data yet? Ontario said they were going to break this out last week but I haven't seen it yet. I know when they broke this data out in the UK it reduced the numbers by 30% but both vaxxed and unvaxxed reduced by the same amount. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Accountability Now

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Have you seen this data yet? Ontario said they were going to break this out last week but I haven't seen it yet. I know when they broke this data out in the UK it reduced the numbers by 30% but both vaxxed and unvaxxed reduced by the same amount. 

No I have not. But it would explain the jump. 

You'd also have to consider the age of those vaxxed being hospitalized. I'm pretty sure it's amongst the older age group. 

[Accountability Now]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

No I have not. But it would explain the jump. 

Waning vaccines also explain the jump.

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

You'd also have to consider the age of those vaxxed being hospitalized. I'm pretty sure it's amongst the older age group. 

Are you suggesting there would be a difference in ages in those being hospitalized amongst those vaxxed versus unvaxxed? If there is data on that then I'd love to see it but it sounds like you are postulating a theory rather than stating a fact. 

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Waning vaccines also explain the jump.

Omicron kind of changes that game. If it hadn't supplanted Delta in much of the world, I suspect we would still be seeing good protection from double dose vaccines. 

Quote

Are you suggesting there would be a difference in ages in those being hospitalized amongst those vaxxed versus unvaxxed? If there is data on that then I'd love to see it but it sounds like you are postulating a theory rather than stating a fact. 

As you get older your immunity drops. We're now talking about fourth doses for the elderly. 

I believe I was optimistic about all this in early December because those under 20 made up a huge plurality of active cases. 

When you look at the population of unvaxxed, I would surmise that they are mostly younger people. But that's just a guess. 

That balance has shifted to those that are older. 

This chart is inaccurate however, because Ontario has stopped testing the general public.