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UK scraps vaccine passport plans


myata

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"We shouldn't be doing things for the sake of it." said UK's health secretary Javid Singh (BBC).

Why? The recently published results on vaccine effects may suggest that passports limited to vaccinated may not be very effective in controlling the spread of the infection, because vaccination, though reducing, does not eliminate transmission of the infection. And if a clear public health benefit cannot be demonstrated, in the countries with functional independent judiciary such measures may not stand to legal challenges.

"The Night Time Industries Association warned the plans could have crippled the industry and seen nightclubs facing discrimination cases."

Morale: when one has to prove and defend their actions, one tends to think about them more seriously. Not all though. Maybe because not all of those who decide and manage have to think, explain, prove and defend their measures and policies?

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24 minutes ago, myata said:

"We shouldn't be doing things for the sake of it." said UK's health secretary Javid Singh (BBC).

Why? The recently published results on vaccine effects may suggest that passports limited to vaccinated may not be very effective in controlling the spread of the infection, because vaccination, though reducing, does not eliminate transmission of the infection. And if a clear public health benefit cannot be demonstrated, in the countries with functional independent judiciary such measures may not stand to legal challenges.

"The Night Time Industries Association warned the plans could have crippled the industry and seen nightclubs facing discrimination cases."

Morale: when one has to prove and defend their actions, one tends to think about them more seriously. Not all though. Maybe because not all of those who decide and manage have to think, explain, prove and defend their measures and policies?

Right so there should be an immediate class action in Canada. Sue the government. Also employers who mandated the psudeo-vaccine for their workers. They must be sued, and the mandate challenged in court.

This shows the problem, when government leaders listen to the insane mob during an emergency, rather than experts. Unions and other non- expert groups have had their way. But not common sense.

It is here at this point where democracy as we know it fails. It is our undoing. Hope you people get that.

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52 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Right so there should be an immediate class action in Canada. Sue the government. Also employers who mandated the psudeo-vaccine for their workers. They must be sued, and the mandate challenged in court.

This shows the problem, when government leaders listen to the insane mob during an emergency, rather than experts. Unions and other non- expert groups have had their way. But not common sense.

It is here at this point where democracy as we know it fails. It is our undoing. Hope you people get that.

You’re right but I don’t think enough people understand the extent to which they continue to be violated.  We live in a time when even the freest countries have enacted tight controls over their populations for questionable reasons.  The fact that this situation persists speaks to people’s unquestioning compliance.

I think that we now have an intractable problem of people feeling so powerless, vulnerable to fear, and weakened psychologically by the restrictions of the past 18 months, that they are unable to muster the energy and hope to rally against the dictates.  They have delegated too much authority to governments and don’t know where to begin. It’s sad.  People who question the dictates are vilified in the media and made examples of in viral videos.

There’s no perspective on the current level of risk of death from Covid-19.  It no longer matters that our death levels are low and comparable to many other causes of death.  We’re in an era of public health Puritanism.  People have started fleeing to freer jurisdictions, which is why there’s an exodus from places like California and New York to Texas and Florida.  People are voting with their feet. 

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11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re right but I don’t think enough people understand the extent to which they continue to be violated.  We live in a time when even the freest countries have enacted tight controls over their populations for questionable reasons.  The fact that this situation persists speaks to people’s unquestioning compliance.

I think that we now have an intractable problem of people feeling so powerless, vulnerable to fear, and weakened psychologically by the restrictions of the past 18 months, that they are unable to muster the energy and hope to rally against the dictates.  They have delegated too much authority to governments and don’t know where to begin. It’s sad.  People who question the dictates are vilified in the media and made examples of in viral videos.

There’s no perspective on the current level of risk of death from Covid-19.  It no longer matters that our death levels are low and comparable to many other causes of death.  We’re in an era of public health Puritanism.  People have started fleeing to freer jurisdictions, which is why there’s an exodus from places like California and New York to Texas and Florida.  People are voting with their feet. 

I believe there are more people who oppose thus than government is leading on. Many were forced to vax by their employers. Evidence that there is avaccine shortage in some areas due to sudden surge in demand. This exacerbates the problem for some vaccine resisters, cant get a vaccine if there is none.

Further evidence authorities are not preparing properly for the consequences if their decision making.

Decisions made on the fly, daily. Countermanding previous decision made yesterday.

Many who had to be vaxxed by force disagree with it, and would come forward if there was a voice or platform.

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2 hours ago, myata said:

"We shouldn't be doing things for the sake of it." said UK's health secretary Javid Singh (BBC).

Why? The recently published results on vaccine effects may suggest that passports limited to vaccinated may not be very effective in controlling the spread of the infection, because vaccination, though reducing, does not eliminate transmission of the infection. And if a clear public health benefit cannot be demonstrated, in the countries with functional independent judiciary such measures may not stand to legal challenges.

"The Night Time Industries Association warned the plans could have crippled the industry and seen nightclubs facing discrimination cases."

Morale: when one has to prove and defend their actions, one tends to think about them more seriously. Not all though. Maybe because not all of those who decide and manage have to think, explain, prove and defend their measures and policies?

Exactly.  Vaccine passports are mostly about virtue signalling, and demonstrating to your particular constituents that you’re doing everything to fight the pandemic.  Regardless of it’s actual effect.  Some people really like that stuff.  Symbolism over substance.

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11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

This shows the problem, when government leaders listen to the insane mob during an emergency, rather than experts. Unions and other non- expert groups have had their way. But not common sense.

I started following the UK numbers simply because Dr Hinshaw (here in Alberta) said about a year ago that what happens in the UK tends to happen in Canada a number of months later. This was the reason why Alberta announced their dropping of restrictions back in July as they had a good indication of data coming from the UK saying it wasn't that bad.

Hoping Alberta follows the UK on dropping any sort of vaccine passport too. 

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An interesting and telling piece: navigating vaccine-passport society, CBC illustrating vaxxer mentality spreading in Canada. The question is really simple (apologies, longer read):

1. We have very high, by factual and international standard, level of voluntary vaccination in the country, with all factors taken into account, likely above 90% and close to 95% with strong protection against the disease.

2. We certainly would like it higher, for the significant protection against complications it provides, and for some, though far from full, reduction in transmission.

3. How do we achieve that? Do we explain, convince and leave it to voluntary decision in the end? Or do we scare, entice and all else failing, mandate?

In a complex society, it's difficult to find simple solutions to complex matters as working solutions have to balance many diverse interests. In a totalitarian society, it's not a problem though, because the objective is not understanding the problem and how to balance many different interests, but how to march in a given direction, and it the direction is already given so there's no point in thinking, reflecting or discussing it. And yes, we here in a great democracy are clearly heading that way because the simple question: why? what benefits do extra marginal increase in immunization, 95 to 97 could and would produce to justify questionable incentives and mandates?

Not "vaccines save lives" in general like drang nach great future but what is the benefit in this case and situation and how it would justify this measure? A totalitarian society, and mind never asks this question because the answer is a foregone conclusion and no one is interested.

Says the psychologist: "they will not enjoy ... being second-class citizens, being shut out. My bet is ... they will quietly get vaccinated". But the fun does not stop there, with wishful betting.

"Jonh said he suffered for months from inflammation of the spinal cord, severe brain fog, intense migraines, muscle twitches and chest pains, among other symptoms...". After he explained his situation to Ottawa Public Health, it recommended he get the second shot anyway. John's employer also gave him an ultimatum: be fully vaccinated by Nov. 1 or lose his job. John says his mental health is suffering, and he's anxious about what bigger toll a vaccine passport society will take on him and his family's well-being.

We are a loving bunch here. We love to hug dogs and cry for hundred year ago dead children. But really, is this the kind of society we see ourselves in the mirror? Why, sorry for asking? What changed? And is it justified, with what, how? Are we even asking the questions?

The history tells us that a totalitarian crowd marching to its ideal, be it eternal glory or holy 99.9% is very unlikely to stop and reflect. What's left then? In the Great South, in that big and scary land, the courts singlehandedly stopped a massive assault on the outcome of a free election. Do we have it here? We may just find out, and again, how we would have known? Don't suffer alone silently John, take you case to the courts and make us all look in the honest mirror. There may be something new to find out.

 

 

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The UK has demonstrated that responsible government balances multiple interests.  They figured out that passports would unnecessarily add stress and bureaucracy to daily life and literally push some people into psychologically and sometimes medically destructive situations.  For what?  To increase vaccination levels a few percent?  If we consider our society free and liberal-democratic, such draconian policies have no place in Canada.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 9/12/2021 at 6:06 AM, myata said:

"We shouldn't be doing things for the sake of it." said UK's health secretary Javid Singh (BBC).

Why? The recently published results on vaccine effects may suggest that passports limited to vaccinated may not be very effective in controlling the spread of the infection, because vaccination, though reducing, does not eliminate transmission of the infection. And if a clear public health benefit cannot be demonstrated, in the countries with functional independent judiciary such measures may not stand to legal challenges.

"The Night Time Industries Association warned the plans could have crippled the industry and seen nightclubs facing discrimination cases."

Morale: when one has to prove and defend their actions, one tends to think about them more seriously. Not all though. Maybe because not all of those who decide and manage have to think, explain, prove and defend their measures and policies?

Well, here in communist BC, I am now not allowed to have dinner with my family or friends in a restaurant anymore. All because I refused to get jabbed with an experimental gene therapy vaccine. Events like Concerts, casinos, sports events and other public venues are being denied to me. This is definitely discrimination. This smacks of communism. Not a member of the communist like covid vaccine club, well too f'n bad for you. You can eat your dinner on the street. This is truly a crime against humanity. But people like comrade Citizen member here seems to feel that, ya man, this is so cool, man. Deny those non vaccinated people their rights and freedoms. Screw them all and their rights to their freedoms. 

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms says that in Canada no one can be discriminated against. To discriminate is against the law. But ask pro globalist Bonnie the psychopath liar commie Henry if she gives a phuk. No doubt she must have plenty of stocks with big pharma alright just like Castro Trudeau supposedly has. Just saying. 

I am really starting to hate this communist country more and more every day. Who would have ever thought just two years ago that people would need to be vaccinated to be able to travel and enjoy life as they once did before this lie and covid hoax virus came along.

I wonder as to how much longer will it be before the Maple Leaf Canadian flag will be pulled down and then replaced with the Hammer and Sickle communist flag. We will surely find out if comrade Castro Trudeau gets reelected again. If you think that things are bad enough now, just wait until that buffoon gets elected. 

A recent poll was taken by CTV News asking people if they supported restrictions to be applied on the non vaccinated. So far, the poll shows that 81% of the respondents said that there should be no restrictions on the non vaccinated and 19% said yes there should be restrictions on the non vaccinated as of now. That 19% have to be communist supporters alright. They obviously do not believe in rights and freedoms and truly do believe that no one should have the right to deny being jabbed with any experimental vaccines. Sadly, Canada is full of these communist idiots. My opinion of course. 🙃

 

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On 9/13/2021 at 4:41 AM, myata said:

An interesting and telling piece: navigating vaccine-passport society, CBC illustrating vaxxer mentality spreading in Canada. The question is really simple (apologies, longer read):

1. We have very high, by factual and international standard, level of voluntary vaccination in the country, with all factors taken into account, likely above 90% and close to 95% with strong protection against the disease.

2. We certainly would like it higher, for the significant protection against complications it provides, and for some, though far from full, reduction in transmission.

3. How do we achieve that? Do we explain, convince and leave it to voluntary decision in the end? Or do we scare, entice and all else failing, mandate?

In a complex society, it's difficult to find simple solutions to complex matters as working solutions have to balance many diverse interests. In a totalitarian society, it's not a problem though, because the objective is not understanding the problem and how to balance many different interests, but how to march in a given direction, and it the direction is already given so there's no point in thinking, reflecting or discussing it. And yes, we here in a great democracy are clearly heading that way because the simple question: why? what benefits do extra marginal increase in immunization, 95 to 97 could and would produce to justify questionable incentives and mandates?

Not "vaccines save lives" in general like drang nach great future but what is the benefit in this case and situation and how it would justify this measure? A totalitarian society, and mind never asks this question because the answer is a foregone conclusion and no one is interested.

Says the psychologist: "they will not enjoy ... being second-class citizens, being shut out. My bet is ... they will quietly get vaccinated". But the fun does not stop there, with wishful betting.

"Jonh said he suffered for months from inflammation of the spinal cord, severe brain fog, intense migraines, muscle twitches and chest pains, among other symptoms...". After he explained his situation to Ottawa Public Health, it recommended he get the second shot anyway. John's employer also gave him an ultimatum: be fully vaccinated by Nov. 1 or lose his job. John says his mental health is suffering, and he's anxious about what bigger toll a vaccine passport society will take on him and his family's well-being.

We are a loving bunch here. We love to hug dogs and cry for hundred year ago dead children. But really, is this the kind of society we see ourselves in the mirror? Why, sorry for asking? What changed? And is it justified, with what, how? Are we even asking the questions?

The history tells us that a totalitarian crowd marching to its ideal, be it eternal glory or holy 99.9% is very unlikely to stop and reflect. What's left then? In the Great South, in that big and scary land, the courts singlehandedly stopped a massive assault on the outcome of a free election. Do we have it here? We may just find out, and again, how we would have known? Don't suffer alone silently John, take you case to the courts and make us all look in the honest mirror. There may be something new to find out.

 

 

It would appear as though the vaccinated people are now the ones who soon may be on their way to their deaths, especially if they start taking all of those booster shots coming their way. Where and when will all of these vaccinations jabs madness ever end? After people take about five or six of them will that be enough to finally get them to stop taking anymore vaccine jabs and wake the phuk up, if they are not dead already. 

These vaccinations shots are not doing a dam thing in stopping this covid virus. The vaccinated ones are still getting the covid virus and they are the ones that are filling up hospital beds. The vaccinated ones have to now be considered spreaders of this covid virus and dangerous to be around. Now I have to worry about being around and surrounded by the vaccinated and the non vaccinated. Holy horse shit, man. 🤣

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