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Trump's Deal with the Taliban & the US Withdrawal From Afghanistan


August1991

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It's an odd ending.  Biden is getting too much blame, and Trump not enough credit.  But it's an ending, which is what everyone wanted.  I suspect even the Taliban want to avoid conflict now, so maybe Auguste is right.

We deal with many undemocratic states, this is another one.

It's telling, though, that everyone wants to get into Western countries.

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19 hours ago, August1991 said:

Should the US mobilise its war machine? The so-called "military-industrial complex"?

All for good reason.

====

US soldiers deaths in Korea (1950s): 30,000

US soldiers deaths in Vietnam (1960s): 60,000

China adopts the American method to organize society (c. 1980)

US victory in the Cold War and defeat of the Soviet Union (1991)

====

US soldiers deaths in Afghanistan (2000s): 3,000

IMHO, to describe this as a "Western Defense against Islam" is nonsense.

As I argue, radical Islam is not a threat to the West unless we let it threaten us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes , the US does mobilize it's military forces when it perceives a threat. Whether you agree on the reason why, does not matter. 

According to YOU , you think Islam is not a threat and you find it hard that most of the WEST considers most of the middle east and other Islamic countries a threat. 

According to the US , they invaded Afghanistan after the Taliban refused to give up bin ladin and his buddies, which where operating within it's military structure  9/11 was real, and the US was attacked by Islamic extremists, during this struggle Islamic extremist from all over the Islamic world were free to participate due to a jihad or Holy War being called...Other Islamic countries provided direct support be it funding or wpns, such as Pakistan, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar are the major investors to the Taliban, smaller amounts come form other Islamic Countries as well, along with hundreds of millions from wealthy individuals that are most Muslim.   

This is just one of many terrorist groups that receive funding from various ISLAMIC sources. In case you missed it the west is still at war with terrorists and countries that are involved with supporting them... with 90 % of terrorism coming out of the Islamic countries, they are a threat, and there for placed on the list...Like i said you don't have to like it but that does not mean it is not true. 

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On 8/18/2021 at 6:16 PM, August1991 said:

The Taliban/radical Islam are nothing like Hitler or Stalinism.

It's only because they don't have the means.  They certainly have the ambition.

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13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's an odd ending.  Biden is getting too much blame, and Trump not enough credit.  But it's an ending, which is what everyone wanted.  I suspect even the Taliban want to avoid conflict now, so maybe Auguste is right.

We deal with many undemocratic states, this is another one.

It's telling, though, that everyone wants to get into Western countries.

How is Biden getting too much blame?  He’s the president.  You don’t have to be Sun Tzu to know that you get your citizens out before you pull your troops out.  The troops are the last people to leave.  Interpreters, citizens, and then after they’re out, the troops leave.  That genius decided to do the exact opposite.  He deserves every bit of the blame that he’s getting.

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11 hours ago, Shady said:

How is Biden getting too much blame?  He’s the president.  You don’t have to be Sun Tzu to know that you get your citizens out before you pull your troops out.  The troops are the last people to leave.  Interpreters, citizens, and then after they’re out, the troops leave.  That genius decided to do the exact opposite.  He deserves every bit of the blame that he’s getting.

Others are saying the US actually knew this would happen and didnt give a heck.

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5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Others are saying the US actually knew this would happen and didnt give a heck.

Nobody makes that point better than Lara Logan. You can watch her do it at about the 17:30 mark of Tucker Carlson's show at the link below. Can't find it on YouTube.

https://vladtepesblog.com/2021/08/19/tucker-carlson-from-last-night-august-18-2021/

Tucker tries to make the point solo on a different show but he's not quite as good.

 

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On 8/19/2021 at 7:19 PM, Army Guy said:

Yes , the US does mobilize it's military forces when it perceives a threat. Whether you agree on the reason why, does not matter. 

...

America did this in Korea and Vietnam.

I am so tired of arguing with people (foreign/American) to explain that America won the Cold War. People in Russia, China - heck, Vietnam - are more free to choose. The Berlin Wall no longer exists.

Reagan was right.

IMV, the Vietnam War was rather a battle, like Dunkerque, in a larger Cold War that we in the West ultimately won.

 

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On 8/19/2021 at 7:19 PM, Army Guy said:

....

According to YOU , you think Islam is not a threat and you find it hard that most of the WEST considers most of the middle east and other Islamic countries a threat. 

According to the US , they invaded Afghanistan after the Taliban refused to give up bin ladin and his buddies, which where operating within it's military structure  9/11 was real, and the US was attacked by Islamic extremists, during this struggle Islamic extremist from all over the Islamic world were free to participate due to a jihad or Holy War being called...Other Islamic countries provided direct support be it funding or wpns, such as Pakistan, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar are the major investors to the Taliban, smaller amounts come form other Islamic Countries as well, along with hundreds of millions from wealthy individuals that are most Muslim.   

.....

True, my opinion.

But I reckon that the Soviet Union was a far greater threat to American, western values. Heck, the Soviets had missiles and controlled half of Europe. And they believed that they were the future.

====

Islam? Afghanistan?

Who in the West wants to bend down to a stone in Arabia?

=====

On this point, I disagree with Steyn and his crazy population theories.  Islam is no threat to the modern West.

 

Edited by August1991
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11 hours ago, August1991 said:

True, my opinion.

But I reckon that the Soviet Union was a far greater threat to American, western values. Heck, the Soviets had missiles and controlled half of Europe. And they believed that they were the future.

====

Islam? Afghanistan?

Who in the West wants to bend down to a stone in Arabia?

=====

On this point, I disagree with Steyn and his crazy population theories.  Islam is no threat to the modern West.

 

Thats not what i am saying TODAY, Russia is not on the top of threat list, China is, with the middle east and other islamic countries coming in second...Russia places a distance 3 rd or 4 th

Forget about the cold war it is yesterdays news...

Like i stated this is not about what YOU think, this is about how the western powers view military threats to their countries in TODAYS world...me and you are not considered in making these lists, well me for sure anyways 

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On 8/22/2021 at 3:47 PM, Army Guy said:

Thats not what i am saying TODAY, Russia is not on the top of threat list, China is, with the middle east and other islamic countries coming in second...Russia places a distance 3 rd or 4 th

Forget about the cold war it is yesterdays news...

Like i stated this is not about what YOU think, this is about how the western powers view military threats to their countries in TODAYS world...me and you are not considered in making these lists, well me for sure anyways 

Army Guy,

Unlike the Soviet Union, I simply don't think that China (or Islam) are threats to the West.

====

Since Deng Xiao Peng, the Chinese have adopted the market system with prices. And anyway, the Chinese are not planning to attack Pearl Harbour.

Islam? Fanatics attacked NYC but Bush Jnr and Obama answered well.

====

Call me naive but I'm more a Pense/Biden American. For the next few decades, Americans will be living in a world of the people who died to create their world: the guys who died in Korea, Vietnam, Europe. Russians who defeated Nazis.

America won the Cold War.

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On 8/22/2021 at 3:47 PM, Army Guy said:

Like i stated this is not about what YOU think, this is about how the western powers view military threats to their countries in TODAYS world...me and you are not considered in making these lists, well me for sure anyways 

Agreed. The "western powers" may view things differently from the way that I do.

=====

I worked for several years in government as a bureaucrat. IMHO, politicians hate to be blinded-sided. Bureaucrats are remarkably adept.

===

I remember several meetings where senior bureaucrats discussed and decided X. And then a 25 year old special assistant said, "No. The Minister will not do X."

I said nothing but I thought to myself, "Many people in Canada would be happy/proud/surprised/amazed if they could see this happening."  

 

Edited by August1991
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12 hours ago, August1991 said:

Agreed. The "western powers" may view things differently from the way that I do.

=====

I worked for several years in government as a bureaucrat. IMHO, politicians hate to be blinded-sided. Bureaucrats are remarkably adept.

===

I remember several meetings where senior bureaucrats discussed and decided X. And then a 25 year old special assistant said, "No. The Minister will not do X."

I said nothing but I thought to myself, "Many people in Canada would be happy/proud/surprised/amazed if they could see this happening."  

 

It's not that they MAY view things different , It is that THEY do see things a lot different than you do....

Politicians are only interested in getting re elected period, not the issues at hand, while bureaucrats are the so call subject matter experts who have been doing the job for years now...

It's telling that the minister or even other senior staff members on his staff could not attend a meeting where decisions where being made, and instead they send a 25 year old kid, it's sad really that the ministers could not even give the time of day to the subject matter experts...thats what is wrong with our government... we rely on some politician to make decisions that effect millions without even hearing what his experts have to say and why they are saying it...Why even have them if your not going to use them or listen to them... to send a 25 year old in would be a slap in the face...it shows lack of respect for those senior bureaucrats among other things... 

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13 hours ago, August1991 said:

Army Guy,

Unlike the Soviet Union, I simply don't think that China (or Islam) are threats to the West.

====

Since Deng Xiao Peng, the Chinese have adopted the market system with prices. And anyway, the Chinese are not planning to attack Pearl Harbour.

Islam? Fanatics attacked NYC but Bush Jnr and Obama answered well.

====

Call me naive but I'm more a Pense/Biden American. For the next few decades, Americans will be living in a world of the people who died to create their world: the guys who died in Korea, Vietnam, Europe. Russians who defeated Nazis.

America won the Cold War.

You don't have to take my word on it, goggle it, there is all kinds of stories that point to where in the world the top threats to the west are... China is number one on the hit list, The US and the west are very concerned over China influence in the south china sea, and its threat to Twain and surrounding areas. The creation of 5 eyes, the new pacific NATO, one does not set up entire organizations because there is no threat.. 

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Every day has been bad news for people in Afghanistan, for like the past 40 years. Recently things have gotten worse. Hopefully after some time things will settle down, they may have a chance to improve. 

Improve themselves, mind you. Not the intentions of the liberal western do-gooders, those who deem themselves the improvers of mankind. What you see today is a crime against humanity being allowed to happen through carelessness and neglect. White liberals have psychologically moved on, they want to put Afghanistan behind them. 

I’m not talking about hunting for Al Quaeda I’m talking about ideas like regime change. And not blaming any soldiers, more like pity them for the insult they’ve suffered. 

ETA: Mr. Trudeau screaming for sanctions. Havent we seen what that does? It amounts to plunging the people into deeper poverty. 

It will make China very happy.

Edited by OftenWrong
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On 8/24/2021 at 6:39 PM, Army Guy said:

....

It's telling that the minister or even other senior staff members on his staff could not attend a meeting where decisions where being made, and instead they send a 25 year old kid...

Such is government in this modern, Swedish, socialist democratic theoretic world. 

We collectively decide all, through democratic election.

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On 8/24/2021 at 6:48 PM, Army Guy said:

You don't have to take my word on it, goggle it, there is all kinds of stories that point to where in the world the top threats to the west are... China is number one on the hit list, The US and the west are very concerned over China influence in the south china sea, and its threat to Twain and surrounding areas. The creation of 5 eyes, the new pacific NATO, one does not set up entire organizations because there is no threat.. 

Steyn used to talk about radical Islam. Steyn used to talk about demography, birth rates. 

Now, Steyn talks about the Chinese - but no mention of demography.

====

IMHO, we in the West will prevail if we believe in our Enlightenment values.

 

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:13 AM, August1991 said:

Such is government in this modern, Swedish, socialist democratic theoretic world. 

We collectively decide all, through democratic election.

I think and this is my opinion only but this example is not a good one, it demonstrates that the minister does not take his job very seriously, and only sends in his young assistant to listen to the experts and to make decisions on his behalf... 

So your saying the 25 year old assistant was elected.... or was he appointed or hired to fill a job opening... which is my point , when the elected minister or his second in command, could not make the time to make a meeting it's telling...

And then he sends his assistant of 25 years old with zero experience and nor has he been elected and yet he is making decisions for the minister...Nice to know you have confidence in a 25 year old, i personally would not, personally i would have made that meeting as an elected official. 

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:20 AM, August1991 said:

Steyn used to talk about radical Islam. Steyn used to talk about demography, birth rates. 

Now, Steyn talks about the Chinese - but no mention of demography.

====

IMHO, we in the West will prevail if we believe in our Enlightenment values.

 

I was hoping you would goggle a organization rather than a individual , but hey atleast your using goggle...

The west or i should say the USA will prevail because they believe that superior fire power and have the will to use it...Thats  what will keep the bad man at bay...That and the American values , you know the ones Canadians hate... very few Canadians have the mind set or values to stand up for what is right...Canadians are more concerned with their own enlightened Values such as 70 plus genders, or getting CERB when not entitled to it.  

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On 8/29/2021 at 7:17 PM, Army Guy said:

I think and this is my opinion only but this example is not a good one, it demonstrates that the minister does not take his job very seriously, and only sends in his young assistant to listen to the experts and to make decisions on his behalf... 

So your saying the 25 year old assistant was elected.... or was he appointed or hired to fill a job opening... which is my point , when the elected minister or his second in command, could not make the time to make a meeting it's telling...

And then he sends his assistant of 25 years old with zero experience and nor has he been elected and yet he is making decisions for the minister...Nice to know you have confidence in a 25 year old, i personally would not, personally i would have made that meeting as an elected official. 

Let's be honest. No Minister can be at every meeting. Ministers send trusted assistants. And these "assistants" are young women/men who lose their job when the minister loses their job.

To follow up my post above, I recall another meeting where one of these "special assistants" simple said: "When I speak, the Minister speaks... "

=====

I think that it's a good system. Democracy in action.

  

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On 8/29/2021 at 7:28 PM, Army Guy said:

...

The west or i should say the USA will prevail because they believe that superior fire power and have the will to use it...

You mean drop the bomb?

----

I once had an argument with a rich, very smart friend in Barcelona - very anti-American - on this point. Losing the argument, I resorted to the point that "the West is stronger".

-----

Call me naive but I think that we in the West, America, will prevail because our Enlightenment values are the future.

The 1941-1945 war between Germany and Russia was one thing.

But the wars between 1914-1945 are something else. 

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