Vaccine passports

[Shady]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Quebec is being pro-active on this. 

Unlike Ontario, who is going to wait until things get dire, like they did in the Spring regarding vaccine distribution. 

I'm hopeful that 2/3 full vaccination rate is enough to keep hospitalization low, but if now, we'll have to curb freedoms again. 

But why should people that did their duty and got vaccinated be treated the same as an Anti-Vaxxer in this scenario? We're not going to be able to shut down business and tell people to stay at home again. 

Vaccine verification is the only solution. BTW it's not a new thing. 

Vaccine passports won’t do anything to prevent unvaccinated people from becoming infected.  And since the vast majority of infections come from private gatherings, vaccine passports will have little effect.  I think we’ve been over this before.  I remember calking out your misinformation already.  And your blaming the spring in Ontario on the provincial government’s vaccine distribution?  That’s as dishonest as it gets.  Ontario had to ration vaccines throughout the winter and early spring because the federal government completely dropped the ball on acquiring enough doses sooner.  Enough with your bull crap already.  It’s tiring.

[myata]

As said, democracy, freedom that we like so much to boast about is not a given - it's a choice. Whatever is "inconvenience" the question that a citizens asks is why, what grounds, explanation, justification and argumentation. Without that question the point is moot - democracy is no longer distinguishable from a dictatorship, in idea first, followed at some point by the reality. For me at least, without an explanation why am I required to do something, even if "minor" (whoever decides) "inconvenience" democracy does not exist. Period.

Now here's another point. I'm not a conspiracy theorist of any kind but I like when what I hear makes sense in the reality. And here's what the reality's saying:

August 10, 2020: 115 cases, 11th: 33 cases, 7-day average under 90 cases. Remember something, about August 2020 last year? Right, no vaccines. 0% coverage, first and second doses.

Now look at the chart, above. No it's not statistically significant at this point. I would expect someone to look at it honestly and objectively and understand what it means and tell us clearly and honestly instead of drumming the song of the day. But clearly it's too much of an expectation, on the second year. So thank you and excuse me, not jumping on the bandwagon. Something seems to be fishy here. Something does not seem to line up.

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Vaccine passports won’t do anything to prevent unvaccinated people from becoming infected.  And since the vast majority of infections come from private gatherings, vaccine passports will have little effect.  I

No it will do a lot for me and many other vaccinated people. It will give us more protection in public places like bars and restaurants so that is great. All we have to do is avoid private parties to avoid unvaccinated people, And I also don't agree most of infections in future will be from private gatherings. This was the case we we had lockdowns and only gatherings were private gathering not so anymore.

 

By the way i get the damn message DO YOU HOLD GOLD IN YOUR PORTFOLI.

what the hell is this?? It is really stressing me out blocking my read. Damn.

[myata]

August 11, 2020: 33 new Covid-19 cases

Travel from Wuhan, not a problem!

Shut, shut, shut!

Mask, mask, mask, mask!

Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine!

When is the time to observe and think, for reason and intelligence? Will there be?

Edited August 11, 2021 by myata

[Shady]

Vaccine passports are just another step closer to authoritarianism.  You must inject a substance into your body or the government will restrict your rights.  And our society has swayed so far from the understanding of history and the understanding of human rights that most of these lemmings completely support it.

[Shady]

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No it will do a lot for me and many other vaccinated people. It will give us more protection in public places like bars and restaurants so that is great. All we have to do is avoid private parties to avoid unvaccinated people, And I also don't agree most of infections in future will be from private gatherings. This was the case we we had lockdowns and only gatherings were private gathering not so anymore.

 

By the way i get the damn message DO YOU HOLD GOLD IN YOUR PORTFOLI.

what the hell is this?? It is really stressing me out blocking my read. Damn.

Trading freedom for security has always been foolish.

[myata]

Just now, Shady said:

Trading freedom for security has always been foolish.

Isn't that standard, default cause of dictators of all kinds? Like there's anything new, I'd like to hear it.

[Boges]

15 minutes ago, Shady said:

Vaccine passports won’t do anything to prevent unvaccinated people from becoming infected.  And since the vast majority of infections come from private gatherings, vaccine passports will have little effect.  I think we’ve been over this before.

In your opinion. But if it's vaccinated people crowding into ICUs like we see in Florida, something has to be done. I'm hopeful we've already reached a vaccination level where that won't be an issue. But the unvaccinated need to feel the pressure. I think they are already. 

Quote

And your blaming the spring in Ontario on the provincial government’s vaccine distribution?  That’s as dishonest as it gets.  Ontario had to ration vaccines throughout the winter and early spring because the federal government completely dropped the ball on acquiring enough doses sooner.  Enough with your bull crap already.  It’s tiring.

Well I've cited that the surge was led by essential workers who couldn't self isolate. Older people, who were getting the vaccine, could isolate. 

You just want to blame the surge on JT, because you're a partisan hack. 

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

Vaccine passports are just another step closer to authoritarianism.  You must inject a substance into your body or the government will restrict your rights.  And our society has swayed so far from the understanding of history and the understanding of human rights that most of these lemmings completely support it.

What about mandates that students receive the MMR vaccine? This is not authoritarianism, you're crying Chicken Little because you're a partisan hack. 

If you think vaccine requirements have anything to do with Nazism you're perspective of history is so warped not to be taken seriously. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

Trading freedom for security has always been foolish.

What is the use of freedom if I am dead? 

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, myata said:

August 11, 2020: 33 new Covid-19 cases

I think a lot of the cases we're seeing now are part of screening. Anyone who has the sniffles has to get tested. 

That infrastructure wasn't in place last Summer. 

I hope we stop that soon as vaccination should deem that un-needed. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am not sure how good (or bad) you are with simple arithmetic but if you look at the data and previous collective data from all over the world you can easily see vaccines are very effective in preventing sickness, hospitalizations and death just not 100% or 96% effective.

That's just lies/propaganda. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500

Quote

WASHINGTON — At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News.

I'm sure that you haven't noticed this, but on the very same day that the alt-left politicians switched from doing everything that they possibly could to spread covid (Trudeau - no masks, gave away PPE, open flights from China with people free to stroll into any crowded place in the country until March 16th, DeBlasio "ride the subway and visit restaurants like normal", Pelosi - "hugging strangers in giant crowds is cool", Cuomo - care homes love C19, all leftists in unison - Banning travel from China is racist!" and then "rioting and looting can't possibly spread C19!"), every word they say points to people getting vaccines, and even speaking about any other course of action is strictly verboten.

You can go to FB jail for promoting HCQ, therapeutics, or speaking out against vaccines.

The amount of lying that leftists did about HCQ when it was being tested was out-of-this-world.

IE, every single action they took was geared towards everyone being forced to get the vaxx from one of their lobbyists at big pharma!  

1) They did everything that they could to spread covid, then 2) they fear-mongered the country into useful idiots, 3) then they vilified any other form of treatment aside from the vaxx, and now 4) anyone who doesn't get the vaxx is an outcast.

I'm sure that you felt like Trump was a covid villain back when he was the only politician in NA actually fighting covid, and that Trudeau and Pelosi did everything right, and you think that HCQ kills people and turns the blind, and that the vaxx is harmless and almost perfect, etc, but that's just from propaganda. Everything that you actually KNOW says I'm 100% correct, but you do you have it in you to think and speak for yourself?

[myata]

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

I think a lot of the cases we're seeing now are part of screening. Anyone who has the sniffles has to get tested.

Nope, doesn't sound plausible testing was ubiquitous of course, but falls very well into the pattern just say something and it'll figure itself out somehow. Like that "contact tracing" information high school exercise? parody? with 3 unknown and one irrelevant category out of 5 but sure, "they do it all the time".

Edited August 11, 2021 by myata

[Boges]

1 minute ago, myata said:

Nope, doesn't sound plausible testing was ubiquitous of course, but falls very well into the pattern just say something and it'll figure itself out somehow. Like that "contract tracing" information high school exercise? parody? with 3 unknown and one irrelevant category out of 5 but sure, "they do it all the time".

Many workplaces didn't have proper COVID-19 policies until last fall. 

 

[myata]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

Many workplaces didn't have proper COVID-19 policies until last fall. 

 

Do you understand the problem or is it just automatic? Last August there were 33 cases in Ontario, with 80 weekly average... not 300 like these days, with vaccines and very smartened up PHO. Could it be the reason (one of them) that there doesn't seem to be an end to the mask mandates no matter what reality says?

[CITIZEN_2015]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's just lies/propaganda. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500

 

Do you read your own links? The link that YOU have provided proves beyond reasonable doubt that vaccines are very effective.

This is coming from your link:

 At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News.

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states found by NBC News represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people who have been fully vaccinated since January, or about one in every 1,300. The number of cases and deaths among the vaccinated is very small compared to the number among the unvaccinated. A former Biden adviser on Covid estimated that 98 to 99 percent of deaths are among the unvaccinated.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Do you read your own links? The link that YOU have provided proves beyond reasonable doubt that vaccines are very effective.

This is coming from your link:

 At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News.

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states found by NBC News represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people who have been fully vaccinated since January, or about one in every 1,300. The number of cases and deaths among the vaccinated is very small compared to the number among the unvaccinated. A former Biden adviser on Covid estimated that 98 to 99 percent of deaths are among the unvaccinated.

 

 

Did you even read the part that you quoted? 

Quote

A former Biden adviser on Covid estimated that 98 to 99 percent of deaths are among the unvaccinated.

Where are there any actual stats on that page which confirm their theory?

4M deaths out of 205M cases = 1.9% (worldometer)

1400 deaths out of 125K = 1.12% 

New treatments have also come out since covid first hit, so the 1.1% is even closer to the 1.9% than it appears. 

 

These are actual stats with large sample sizes.

These stats say that the vaccines are placebo-like.

Thoughts? (lol)

[WestCanMan]

30 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Do you read your own links? The link that YOU have provided proves beyond reasonable doubt that vaccines are very effective.

This is coming from your link:

 At least 125,000 fully vaccinated Americans have tested positive for Covid and 1,400 of those have died, according to data collected by NBC News.

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states found by NBC News represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people who have been fully vaccinated since January, or about one in every 1,300. The number of cases and deaths among the vaccinated is very small compared to the number among the unvaccinated. A former Biden adviser on Covid estimated that 98 to 99 percent of deaths are among the unvaccinated.

 

 

FYI, if 98 to 99% of covid deaths were from unvaxxed, that means that they'd be dying at 50-99x the rate of the vaxxed. 

Do you think that (1400 x 50) = 70,000 unvaxxed die out of 125,000 cases? If it's 99% then 1400 x 99 = 140,000 out of 125,000 unvaxxed die from covid. It would be the only disease in history to have more than a 100% mortality rate.

Biden's advisors are just as dumb as he is, and you're quoting them, thinking that their word is gospel lol.

[myata]

If someone still remembers, much of last summer was devoted to the mask, mask, mask publicity / propaganda? campaign then there two more waves with all time highs of cases and unfortunately deaths, with masks already. So did they help, as a universal blanket measure, outside of specific areas and conditions where their use was justified? We have no definite answer, however we can compare the numbers with the first wave, in which there were not widespread masks.

Are we hitting similar situation here with vaccines? I'm not going to prejudge but neither take it to blind faith on mandatory bandwagons until there's solid evidence one way or the other. We'll have to see. As of now, with close to 70% vaccination, new case counts are 3 - 10 times higher than same time last year, and without. Not lower as could have been expected logically based on the rate of vaccination. That is a worrying sign. We'll have to look, examine and see, not take to blind faith whatever new word falls from high above.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I have no idea what is the point you are trying to prove WestCanMan. Are you trying to prove vaccines are effective or not effective? I thought you are trying to prove vaccines are not effective to show that we don't need vaccination but your link proves vaccines are very effective. I am lost in your posts but again I am working from home and at the same time in between work i post here so it may be me.

Edited August 11, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Do you think that (1400 x 50) = 70,000 unvaxxed die out of 125,000 cases? I

The 125,000 are infections among fully vaccinated Americans only not all Americans infected during that period. The total number is millions more.

[Zeitgeist]

I’m not understanding.  The data posted here is showing that less than 1 % of those diagnosed with the virus are fully vaccinated (.08)and that just over 1 % of that 1 % die of Covid.  That’s less than one in a thousand people.  Cancer and cardiovascular disease, the leading causes of death in Canada, each account for about two people per 1000 or about double the death rate of Covid for vaccinated people.  How many of the fully vaccinated have underlying conditions such as cardiovascular disease?  

If you’re vaccinated you’re well protected.  Everyone who can get the vaccine should get it and the unvaccinated should continue to be careful, but the reality is that as of now, with over 60 percent of the population fully vaccinated (accounting for all people, eligible and ineligible), the death rate from Covid right now is lower than those other leading causes of death and we’re continuing to vaccinate people.  Soon under 12’s will be vaccinated, likely in fall.  Our projections in Ontario for currently eligible people is that we’ll get to about 85% fully vaccinated.  We’re fine.  Businesses will make decisions about screening.  Governments will require vaccination for some workers.  In any event, we’re well on our way to normalcy without vaccine passports, thankfully.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Soon under 12’s will be vaccinated, likely in fall.  Our projections in Ontario for currently eligible people is that we’ll get to about 85% fully vaccinated.  We’re fine.  Businesses will make decisions about screening.  Governments will require vaccination for some workers.  In any event, we’re well on our way to normalcy without vaccine passports, thankfully.

I'd like to think that way the problem is, it's not what I see. Mandatory masks and some other restrictions stay on without regards to the case dynamics. What does it tell us? Are they going to be with us for long, for how long or maybe forever i.e. word comes from high on?

And case dynamics seems to be wrong: we already have multiples of counts of last year's with no vaccines, and the borders come open, but masks stay on. So what if comes fall they head into thousands, which new restrictions the experts" would come up with? Without honest information, controls and accountability what's there to prevent it from developing into ongoing permanent symphony, year after year, year of masks, year of vaccines, year of turn around and clap etc always something added never anything goes away. I'd like to be over-pessimistic and wrong here but what is it we actually see?

[WestCanMan]

35 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The 125,000 are infections among fully vaccinated Americans only not all Americans infected during that period. The total number is millions more.

Nope. Not according to that article.

Quote

125,000 fully vaccinated Americans tested positive and 1400 of those died.

There's only 1 meaning for that in the English language. It means 1400 from that group. Period.

This is quite different from other sources which seem to claim that vaxxed people "only get mildly ill". 

 

In any event, we're definitely being lied to by the MSM, as usual.

 

Like I said earlier: Trudeau, DeBlasio, Pelosi and Cuomo were doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of fighting covid for over a month after Trump had started taking concrete action against it. Those guys even defended the WHO, and the WHO had one single job and they did far worse than just botch it. They did a mixture of covering up for China and aiding in the spread of the virus.

Back at the beginning, when there was a chance to slow the spread of covid, leftists and the WHO were actively contributing to its spread, and that's a 100% verifiable fact. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not understanding.  The data posted here is showing that less than 1 % of those diagnosed with the virus are fully vaccinated (.08)and that just over 1 % of that 1 % die of Covid.  That’s less than one in a thousand people.  Cancer and cardiovascular disease, the leading causes of death in Canada, each account for about two people per 1000 or about double the death rate of Covid for vaccinated people.  How many of the fully vaccinated have underlying conditions such as cardiovascular disease?  

If you’re vaccinated you’re well protected.  Everyone who can get the vaccine should get it and the unvaccinated should continue to be careful, but the reality is that as of now, with over 60 percent of the population fully vaccinated (accounting for all people, eligible and ineligible), the death rate from Covid right now is lower than those other leading causes of death and we’re continuing to vaccinate people.  Soon under 12’s will be vaccinated, likely in fall.  Our projections in Ontario for currently eligible people is that we’ll get to about 85% fully vaccinated.  We’re fine.  Businesses will make decisions about screening.  Governments will require vaccination for some workers.  In any event, we’re well on our way to normalcy without vaccine passports, thankfully.

Yes so I have no idea what those who are against vaccinations are talking about. Their own links point to the fact that vaccines are very effective so get it then!!!!