Our national pride - Canadian women's soccer team wins gold-medal.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1) Ibram X Kendi was named one of Time Magazines 100 most influential people of 2020, because he is a leader of the woke, he is the director of the Center for Antiracist Research at Boston University, he is the face of the Anti-Racist movement, and the biggest influencer on defining what "Anti-Racism" actually is,  he literally wrote the book on "How to be an Anti-Racist"

2) Robin DiAngelo is considered America's most visible expert on anti-bias training, and she has been in that field for 20 years, her academic field of expertise is whiteness studies and critical discourse analysis, and no I didn't make up the term whiteness studies to mock the woke, they literally call it that unironically 

3) if you are worried about illiberalism on all sides of the political spectrum and the potential threat they pose to the liberal institutions you hold so dear, then the woke are biggest threat to liberalism in western civilization, so you should probably look into them if you are so worried about illiberal groups

4) seeing your focus on illiberal groups on the right, clearly it is something you claim to care about, so focus a little more on the illiberal groups on the left, because the woke are in your blindspot

5) despite being a far bigger threat than the illiberal groups you are focused on, somehow that didn't alert you to the threat they pose

1) 2) ok, I accept this
3) yep, that's why I am talking to you.  I am worried, but I also think it's hard to quantify "biggest threat".   
4) yep, that's why I am talking to you.  I am more interested in publics and objective observations on new media than finger pointing.  Of course I am biased though, so I hope you will forgive me if I don't agree with you 100% as I will forgive you.
5) Well, I am looking (in Canada) at violence, disunity and cost to GDP on both sides.  I would like to hear how you can assess a bigger threat.  If it's a 'gut feeling' then I am down with that, and you don't have to back it up any more than my gut feeling that it's vice-versa

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) 2) ok, I accept this
3) yep, that's why I am talking to you.  I am worried, but I also think it's hard to quantify "biggest threat".   
4) yep, that's why I am talking to you.  I am more interested in publics and objective observations on new media than finger pointing.  Of course I am biased though, so I hope you will forgive me if I don't agree with you 100% as I will forgive you.
5) Well, I am looking (in Canada) at violence, disunity and cost to GDP on both sides.  I would like to hear how you can assess a bigger threat.  If it's a 'gut feeling' then I am down with that, and you don't have to back it up any more than my gut feeling that it's vice-versa

I assess the biggest threat based on how much damage the ideology can and does do if implemented

how many people hold that ideology or don't openly oppose it

and how many people in power are influenced by that ideology or are true believers of that ideology

basically how dangerous is it and how likely is to gain and maintain influence on the culture and society

on those metrics, the woke ideology is very dangerous and batshit crazy, while making people feel righteous for tearing down western civilization itself

more people hold this extremist illiberal ideology than any other extremist illiberal ideology by several orders of magnitude, it is already in the seats of power

the ideology has major influence in politics, media, corporations, academia, education, technology, etc

anyone who goes against the woke craziness is cancelled to silence all dissent under the rubric that disagreeing with the woke is dangerous hate speech

this woke shit is super pervasive, particularly in Canada, which is quite thoroughly woke in every institution that has any power to help shape the culture whatsoever

and the trend is that they are only growing, not shrinking

if they aren't by far the most dangerous illiberal ideology present in the west today

then what is?

it's a crazy cult that is totally ascendant, unlike other dangerous illiberal ideologies

there is barely any pushback to it in Canada whatsoever

and now Canada is easily one of the wokest nations on the planet

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Galloway]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't think that I said that.  I don't believe it.  Someone else said it, and I'm waiting to read how that can be justified.

You are correct, I am getting confused between you and another poster.   I will edit my post immediately.

 

EDIT:  Done.  My apologies, I will be more careful in the future.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Galloway

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. I assess the biggest threat based on how much damage the ideology can and does do if implemented, how many people hold that ideology or don't openly oppose it, and how many people in power are influenced by that ideology or are true believers of that ideology

2. basically how dangerous is it and how likely is to gain and maintain influence on the culture and society, on those metrics, the woke ideology is very dangerous and batshit crazy, while making people feel righteous for tearing down western civilization itself

 

1. 2.  Sorry ... I am not disputing the pervasiveness of ... some of what you are describing.  But you also can't say that anything that would be suggested would be agreed to by the majority.  And how are you quantifying the damage ?

It seems pretty subjective, still.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Galloway said:

 EDIT:  Done.  My apologies, I will be more careful in the future.

Apology noted.  Voodoo doll discarded.

[Yzermandius19]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2.  Sorry ... I am not disputing the pervasiveness of ... some of what you are describing.  But you also can't say that anything that would be suggested would be agreed to by the majority.  And how are you quantifying the damage ?

It seems pretty subjective, still.

of course it's subjective conclusion

but it's based on objective facts about the ideology

and how widely it has already spread

you can come to your own conclusions about the woke

if you want help being pointed in the right direction

because you haven't heard this kind of perspective on the woke before

James Lindsay is good starting point

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. how widely it has already spread

2. because you haven't heard this kind of perspective on the woke before

1. Agreed that aspects of this have spread, but that may be a demographic shift.
2. Well,, the people that you picked out - do you have anything particularly damning on them to start ?

[Yzermandius19]

41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Agreed that aspects of this have spread, but that may be a demographic shift.
2. Well,, the people that you picked out - do you have anything particularly damning on them to start ?

both openly admit to being racists, but that's okay, they say, because so is everyone else

Ibram X Kendi believes that discrimination that has equitable results is "anti-racist" and anti-discrimination that has inequitable results is racist

Robin DiAngelo believes that that MLK philosophy of judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, is the epitome of trying to conceal the racism of a white supremacist system, and how the only way not to be racist, is to judge people based on race

they say some of the craziest and stupid things you'll ever hear, yet they are fawned over by the woke

I literally had a woke friend delete me off of facebook for "being racist" because I sided with MLK over DiAngelo, after she went off and got brainwashed by the woke at university getting some bullshit environmental studies degree

when it comes to judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, color blindness is racism, the kind of racism that can only come from those with white privelege, she says

and not taking DiAngelo's word for it, because she got her PhD in multicultural education for a dissertation entitled "Whiteness in racial dialogue: a discourse analysis", just shows my ignorance of the subject

invoking an appeal to authority to justify these ridiculous views without having to explain how they make any sense whatsoever

these people are total nutjobs, it's a crazy cult, like I say

Edited August 9, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. both openly admit to being racists, but that's okay, they say, because so is everyone else. Ibram X Kendi believes that discrimination that has equitable results is "anti-racist" and anti-discrimination that has inequitable results is racist

2. Robin DiAngelo believes that that MLK philosophy of judging people by the content of their character and not the color of their skin, is the epitome of trying to conceal the racism of a white supremacist system, and how the only way not to be racist, is to judge people based on race

3. they say some of the craziest and stupid things you'll ever hear, yet they are fawned over by the woke

4. these people are total nutjobs, it's a crazy cult, like I say

1. This is an academic point that they have been making since affirmative action.  Is it 'racist' ?  It's discriminatory - I accept that.   I think that discrimination is part of life, but nobody has discussed how 'the' public should look at it.  We have women's clubs and the Scots society.  Is it so bad ?  I would say not.

2. 3. 4.  So are you going to give me a quote ?  I searched and just found ponderous academic-type stuff.

[Argus]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:14 PM, bcsapper said:

Yeah, I personally think we'd be a lot better off if we put the women in charge. 

Uhm, no. I personally think the problem is we've already done  that. Trudeau is in power because of women. Men wouldn't have chosen him. The majority of this woke nonsense is being driven by women.

[Argus]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:06 AM, Galloway said:

Trump's primary campaign strategy is always to use fear and hate to energize his base, no matter what the topic.    People standing against racism and bigotry is seen as a HUGE threat by most White Conservatives.

Only when that 'racism and bigotry' is invented, which it often is these days. People point to statistics as evidence but the statistics can be interpreted any number of ways and even if accurate have any number of causes unrelated to racism or bigotry.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Argus said:

Uhm, no. I personally think the problem is we've already done  that. Trudeau is in power because of women. Men wouldn't have chosen him. The majority of this woke nonsense is being driven by women.

Yeah, Trudeau is, actually, a man.

If you mean to imply that certain people of a certain gender are too dumb to make informed political decisions, I'll just refer you to Trump and leave it there.

[-TSS-]

Women's sport is nice to watch but the reality is that they would lose to 15-year old schoolboys, which happened with the US women's team.

The team whose leader demanded that women players should dd be paid as much as men. 

I just wonder where does she think the money comes from that men are paid. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, Trudeau is, actually, a man.

If you mean to imply that certain people of a certain gender are too dumb to make informed political decisions, I'll just refer you to Trump and leave it there.

Point. But it isn't just Trudeau. It's every left wing social program and policy combined with a lack of worry about the money being borrowed to pay for them. Not to mention they're much of the driving force behind wokeness.

[Shady]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, Trudeau is, actually, a man.

If you mean to imply that certain people of a certain gender are too dumb to make informed political decisions, I'll just refer you to Trump and leave it there.

Just examine the gender gap when it comes to Trudeau.  A significant majority of women support Trudeau.  A significant majority of men don’t.  It’s just a fact.

[Guest]

Just now, Shady said:

Just examine the gender gap when it comes to Trudeau.  A significant majority of women support Trudeau.  A significant majority of men don’t.  It’s just a fact.

So what?  Trudeau's a man.  You obviously want a man in charge, so you got your wish!

[Shady]

28 minutes ago, Argus said:

Point. But it isn't just Trudeau. It's every left wing social program and policy combined with a lack of worry about the money being borrowed to pay for them. Not to mention they're much of the driving force behind wokeness.

I have to agree with Argus.  It reminds me of looking at federal budget data. Before and after women started voting in America.  After women started voting, federal government expenditures soared as did its deficit spending and accumulation of debt.  I’m not saying that some of it want necessary, but it’s still another statistical fact.

[Shady]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

So what?  Trudeau's a man.  You obviously want a man in charge, so you got your wish!

No, I don’t necessarily want a man in charge.  Why would you assume that?

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

Point. But it isn't just Trudeau. It's every left wing social program and policy combined with a lack of worry about the money being borrowed to pay for them. Not to mention they're much of the driving force behind wokeness.

Sure, and it's not like I want an MTG or an AOC in charge.  I'd just like to see a female equivalent of... erm, of....

Well, I can't think of a male politician who I think has done a bang up job since Churchill, and the job asked of him was somewhat unique.

So I can't see any down side.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

No, I don’t necessarily want a man in charge.  Why would you assume that?

I'm sorry, my mistake.  I too would like to see a woman in charge for a while.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

I have to agree with Argus.  It reminds me of looking at federal budget data. Before and after women started voting in America.  After women started voting, federal government expenditures soared as did its deficit spending and accumulation of debt.  I’m not saying that some of it want necessary, but it’s still another statistical fact.

Population increased a bit too, right?

[Shady]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I'm sorry, my mistake.  I too would like to see a woman in charge for a while.

Me too, but in particular a conservative woman.  Genitalia isn’t a qualification.  It’s about policy.

[Guest]

Just now, Shady said:

Me too, but in particular a conservative woman.  Genitalia isn’t a qualification.  It’s about policy.

I know.  That's why I don't care if the place isn't run by men.

[Argus]

54 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sure, and it's not like I want an MTG or an AOC in charge.  I'd just like to see a female equivalent of... erm, of....

Well, I can't think of a male politician who I think has done a bang up job since Churchill, and the job asked of him was somewhat unique.

So I can't see any down side.

My problem is I can't think of a female politician who has done a bang up job ever, except perhaps Thatcher. All of the female premiers Canada has had have been failures. And I can't think of a female cabinet minister or for that matter MP over the last ten years I've thought would make a good leader. The one most likely to take over from Trudeau is Freeland and she strikes me as a smarmy, prune faced drone doing nothing but what she's told.

"She knows how to take orders." is not a good recommendation for leader.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

On 8/9/2021 at 1:09 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. 2.  Sorry ... I am not disputing the pervasiveness of ... some of what you are describing.  But you also can't say that anything that would be suggested would be agreed to by the majority.  And how are you quantifying the damage ?

It seems pretty subjective, still.

As per an item I posted in my club last week the woke ideology seems confined to a new technocratic elite who largely control academia, media/entertainment and much of politics And given these are where the decision as to what constitutes acceptable views and beliefs are set, that makes them very important even if they're the minority overall.

And by the way, if you hold pro gun and pro life beliefs keep them quiet if you want to become a doctor.

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/manitoba-medical-student-expelled-over-pro-gun-and-pro-life-facebook-posts-wins-court-ruling?

Edited August 11, 2021 by Argus