Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, SkyHigh said: No I'm not You just admitted my point Faith is used when there is no proof of the claim you're making, therefore not a path to truth in any circumstance There's certainly no proof that the Earth and its inhabitants accidentally came into existence. Faith is very much a part of your ideas on how the earth came to be. Edited February 15, 2023 by Deluge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Deluge said: Nope. Faith and reasonable expectations coincide in this discussion. Is English not your first language? Reasonable uses reason and reason uses logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 Just now, SkyHigh said: Is English not your first language? Reasonable uses reason and reason uses logic lol. Show me your proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Deluge said: There's certainly no proof that the Earth and its inhabitants accidentally came into existence. Faith is very much a part of your ideas on how the earth came to be. Believe what you choose, just admit you have no evidence of any of it I gave evidence there was no exodus ( the only claim I've made) prove me wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Deluge said: lol. Show me your proof. My proof that reason uses logic? It's literally the definition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 Just now, SkyHigh said: Believe what you choose, just admit you have no evidence of any of it I gave evidence there was no exodus ( the only claim I've made) prove me wrong Right after you admit that you have zero evidence to the contrary. No Exodus as in no Exodus of the Old Testament? Explain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, SkyHigh said: My proof that reason uses logic? It's literally the definition Show me your proof about how the world came to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Deluge said: Right after you admit that you have zero evidence to the contrary. No Exodus as in no Exodus of the Old Testament? Explain Ok I'll repeat myself since you ignored it before Egypt kept very good historical records: no mention of millions of Hebrews escaping, not to mention anything about the plagues. It was also around the 13th century Modern archeology has done numerous digs and found zero evidence that millions of Israelis wondered the desert for decades, as well as examining the bottom of the red sea and again found zero evidence of hundreds of Egyptians being swallowed by the sea I could do the same for many bible stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, SkyHigh said: 15 minutes ago, Deluge said: lol. Show me your proof. My proof that reason uses logic? It's 13 minutes ago, SkyHigh said: My proof that reason uses logic? It's literally the definition Are you going to be honest about the fact that faith and reason aren't the same thing, or are you okay with not being truthful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, SkyHigh said: Ok I'll repeat myself since you ignored it before Egypt kept very good historical records: no mention of millions of Hebrews escaping, not to mention anything about the plagues. It was also around the 13th century Modern archeology has done numerous digs and found zero evidence that millions of Israelis wondered the desert for decades, as well as examining the bottom of the red sea and again found zero evidence of hundreds of Egyptians being swallowed by the sea I could do the same for many bible stories Sounds like the modern archeologists need to keep digging. You'll be sure to let me know when they find something, won't you. Edited February 15, 2023 by Deluge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 15, 2023 Report Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 hour ago, SkyHigh said: Are you going to be honest about the fact that faith and reason aren't the same thing, or are you okay with not being truthful Give me an example of a reasonable expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Contrarian said: I think old Aurelius triple split remains the most reasonable explanation that I found on the trip in life. Anyone that has an issue with this quote, is in a bubble in my opinion: All false religions in the world believe a similar thing. They believe one can get to heaven by living a good life as your post says. That is also part of classic Roman Catholicism but includes some other things such as believing in Roman Catholic dogma and various unbiblical doctrines they hold. The Bible makes it clear nobody can work their way into heaven. There are only two places to go, heaven or hell. "10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. " Romans 3:10-12 KJV " 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" Romans 3:20-25 KJV " 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. " Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV Edited February 16, 2023 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Contrarian said: False according to whom? You? The arrogance, I think you religious folks should keep writing. You are ensuring the next generation will not go near religious which such medieval messages. Not according to me. I just quoted a number of verses that say you cannot get to heaven by good works. But the bottom line is one can be saved only if God gives his grace and saves a person. Nobody can save themselves. Only God has the power to save a person. That is why we should not take an arrogant attitude toward the Bible or God because it is God's revelation to mankind and is the source of the knowledge of salvation. It is God who saves people by his grace alone. "14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? {repliest…: or, answerest again, or, disputest with God?} 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: {fitted: or, made up} 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? " Romans 9:14-24 KJV We need to approach God with humility realizing we are mere mortals created out of the dust of the earth and depend on his mercy and grace to be redeemed. Edited February 16, 2023 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted February 16, 2023 Report Share Posted February 16, 2023 11 hours ago, blackbird said: We need to approach God with humility realizing we are mere mortals created out of the dust of the earth and depend on his mercy and grace to be redeemed. Are you comfortable putting your faith in a God that is shown to be more evil than Satan? Would you accept that vile and evil judges verdict? Why would you humble yourself to evil? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 6:53 PM, Deluge said: Sounds like the modern archeologists need to keep digging. You'll be sure to let me know when they find something, won't you. Although I'm no longer surprised, it still never ceases to amaze me how it's always those who claim to have the moral high ground that are always the ones to debate dishonestly But please don't stop spouting your ignorance and lies, people like you and blackbird do more to pull people out of their indoctrination and brainwashing than any scientist or atheist could ever, so thank you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyHigh Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 6:59 PM, Deluge said: Give me an example of a reasonable expectation. If you don't know what the words "reasonable" and "expectation" mean you are ill-equipped for these kind of conversations. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 17, 2023 Report Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, SkyHigh said: If you don't know what the words "reasonable" and "expectation" mean you are ill-equipped for these kind of conversations. Period. I want to know what you think a reasonable expectation is. Can you not do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, SkyHigh said: Although I'm no longer surprised, it still never ceases to amaze me how it's always those who claim to have the moral high ground that are always the ones to debate dishonestly But please don't stop spouting your ignorance and lies, people like you and blackbird do more to pull people out of their indoctrination and brainwashing than any scientist or atheist could ever, so thank you What do you want to hear? That since archeologists didn't find anything that I should abandon God? Talk about intellectual dishonesty. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Deluge said: What do you want to hear? That since archeologists didn't find anything that I should abandon God? Talk about intellectual dishonesty. lol Gods are nothing without faith. That's why all Gods are the same to me. As long as someone believes in them, to them, they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 14 hours ago, bcsapper said: Gods are nothing without faith. That's why all Gods are the same to me. As long as someone believes in them, to them, they exist. You don't know that God DOESN'T exist. All you can tell me is that you believe he isn't real, and what use is that to anyone except your own peace of mind? My question is, do you HAVE peace of mind? It sure doesn't look like it by the way you treat this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Deluge said: You don't know that God DOESN'T exist. All you can tell me is that you believe he isn't real, and what use is that to anyone except your own peace of mind? My question is, do you HAVE peace of mind? It sure doesn't look like it by the way you treat this topic. Well, we're both treating the topic the same way, aren't we? Arguing a case that we can't prove, or even know to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 1 minute ago, bcsapper said: Well, we're both treating the topic the same way, aren't we? Arguing a case that we can't prove, or even know to be true. You can know that God exists. You can't know that He doesn't exist. The way to know whether God exists is outlined in scripture; there is no way to know the God doesn't exist, except by complete avoidance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just now, Deluge said: You can know that God exists. You can't know that He doesn't exist. The way to know whether God exists is outlined in scripture; there is no way to know the God doesn't exist, except by complete avoidance. No, that's wrong. You can believe you know, but you can't know. That's what faith is. I support your right to your views though, if it gets you through the day. Anyway, if you get back to me with "Oh yes I can", I'll leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 16 hours ago, Deluge said: I want to know what you think a reasonable expectation is. Can you not do that? I do not know if anyone can answer your open question. Let me introduce a term that might help. Best possible moral and ethical end. That, it seems to me is the only applicable term. Note how, in the case of Jesus returning, a best end to that would be his curing all the ill, but Christians are wishing his return to be another genocide of the so called evil masses. The inquisition against the LGBTQ+ women never stopped. Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Patriot Posted February 18, 2023 Report Share Posted February 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, Deluge said: You can know that God exists. Only if he pops up to be judged. Do you know of some other way to confirm a God's existence? Regards DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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