How to cripple a healthcare system

[oops]

33 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Denmark has a population density of 135 people per sq km. Sweden's death rate is over 3 times Denmark's.

South Korea has  population density of 527 people per square kilometer. It has had no lockdowns and has a per capita death rate that is one twelfth of Denmark's. 

[Aristides]

9 minutes ago, oops said:

South Korea has  population density of 527 people per square kilometer. It has had no lockdowns and has a per capita death rate that is one twelfth of Denmark's. 

Lockdown is a pretty broad term. South Korea certainly has restrictions. 

But maybe we should compare likes with likes. I'm comparing. Scandinavian countries with Scandinavian countries, not ones on the other side of the world.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Aristides

[oops]

28 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Lockdown is a pretty broad term. South Korea certainly has restrictions. 

But maybe we should compare likes with likes. I'm comparing. Scandinavian countries with Scandinavian countries, not ones on the other side of the world.

So you no longer believe it to be a pandemic?

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, oops said:

So you no longer believe it to be a pandemic?

Well let's compare Sweden with New Zealand then.

[oops]

9 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Well let's compare Sweden with New Zealand then.

How about Antarctica no lockdowns, and no deaths for the whole continent. 

[Aristides]

1 minute ago, oops said:

How about Antarctica no lockdowns, and no deaths for the whole continent. 

Now you are getting really stupid, Auckland is 50% larger than Stockholm.

[oops]

The topic is damage to our health care system, you are the one who started wandering the globe. You can think that makes you the smart one if you want to.

[Queenmandy85]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

But not us. We obsess on the death count that is 60% LTC holmes. The remaining 40% were elderly who live at home. People of advanced age. You get that?

That is a pretty cavalier view of other people's lives. This old lady in a care home was a physicist who contributed to the enhancement of your life style and that other woman parachuted into occupied France in the Second World War so that I could post stupid things on the internet. But they're old so who gives a damn if they get sick and die as long as I don't have to pay taxes to support the healthcare system and I can go get hammered in a crowded bar and spread covid-19 to others who will pass it on to someone who actually has contributed to the betterment of our society.

I'm 73 and I really need another 33 years to finish doing all I can, so don't screw that up. Stay home, wash your hands, wear a mask when you do go out, and have patience. Respect your elders.

[Queenmandy85]

It is not the governments that have screwed things up in this crisis. It is us, the pea-brains, who won't do what we are told because we are entitled.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is not the governments that have screwed things up in this crisis. It is us, the pea-brains, who won't do what we are told because we are entitled.

I beg to differ. You are not reading my information at all, but rather applying rabbit-morality.

Mine is not a cavalier attitude. The cavalier attitude is the government that is not doing what people like CARP having been calling to be done since this all began. What I said should be done since this all began. I posted their link in the DoFo thread.

To be clear, for about the dozenth time: I am not saying to let the old folks die. Our government is not saying it either, but they are doing it. Quietly, without any notice by rabbits who are snuggly in there safe warrens.

[Queenmandy85]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I beg to differ. You are not reading my information at all,

I apologize. While I never click on links, you did provide the info, but I missed it. I agree,  we need to put a lot more money into elder care. The response to the post-war baby boom has been late for the last 70 years. Not enough schools in the 1950's and 60's, not enough jobs in the 60's and 70's and no real planning for boomers in anticipation of the present. We have come to a point, thanks to Preston Manning, that no one can win an election without promising to lower taxes. Manning convinced the voters you could have everything without paying for it. Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die to get there. The core problem with our healthcare system is tax resistance. We have the rollsroyce of healthcare systems, but nobody wants to put fuel in the tank.

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I apologize.

No need! Your honesty is refreshing around here.

[Queenmandy85]

The successful policies with Covid-19 in a few other countries are, early, frequent, almost universal testing, contact tracing, strict restrictions on travel, and a greater ICU capacity. These are nations with populations acclimatized to compliance with authority.

[oops]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It is not the governments that have screwed things up in this crisis. It is us, the pea-brains, who won't do what we are told because we are entitled.

It is the government that screwed things up. The government closed the hospitals when people were promised treatments, necessary for their continued survival, it was the government that watched them die untreated. You might not care about that, but it is not okay, and the government is to blame.  You might think that closing the hospitals didn't make waiting lists longer and fill the hospitals, but it did.

It is the government that locked down battered  spouses with their  abusive partners, and closed the shelters that were their only refuge. You might not see this as a problem, but it is a problem, and the government is to blame.

It is the government that closed the borders causing a worsening of the opiod crisis resulting in many deaths and hospitalizations. You might not think that this put more stress on the healthcare system, but it did. You might not see this as a problem, but it is a problem. You might not think that the government is to blame, but the government is to blame.

It was the government that closed down businesses and drove many into bankruptcy. You might not think that this is a problem, but it actually is a problem. you might think that the government is not to blame, but the government is to blame.

[oops]

59 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The successful policies with Covid-19 in a few other countries are, early, frequent, almost universal testing, contact tracing, strict restrictions on travel, and a greater ICU capacity. These are nations with populations acclimatized to compliance with authority.

This is the truth. This is what the government should have focused their resources on from the beginning.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, Aristides said:

Denmark has a population density of 135 people per sq km. Sweden's death rate is over 3 times Denmark's.

And anyway, that old cliche about Canada's population density is silly. We have huge empty lands but something like 90% of Canadians live in a narrow strip along the US border. So their population density is a hell of a lot higher.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The successful policies with Covid-19 in a few other countries are, early, frequent, almost universal testing, contact tracing, strict restrictions on travel, and a greater ICU capacity. These are nations with populations acclimatized to compliance with authority.

To a degree. I wouldn't put Australia into that category, though, and they've done a lot better than us.

[Queenmandy85]

36 minutes ago, oops said:

This is the truth. This is what the government should have focused their resources on from the beginning.

Hindsight is 20-20. 

What hospitals were closed? You have the advantage of me on that one. I agree, spousal abuse is a tragedy. I don't have an answer to that. The whole point is to get people to stay in their homes and only go outside for exercise. The governments should have prohibited travel totally, prohibited the consumption of beverage alcohol, and continued the CERB program. The difficulty is they did not know what they were dealing with until it was too late.  Even closing the US border was thought to be impossible. 

Businesses are going to die. That is a terrible thing but it pales to insignificance compared to people dying. As I said, if voters were not such greedy cheapskates, we could be funding healthcare and not closing hospitals.

I am a pensioner but my net worth is far greater than all the governments in Canada.

 

[oops]

36 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What hospitals were closed? You have the advantage of me on that one.

In April, the University Health Network in Ontario released a study suggesting that after just six weeks into a ten-week shutdown of what were said to be non-essential surgeries, as many as 35 cardiac-care patients might have died after their heart surgeries were cancelled to free up beds for the anticipated surge in COVID-19 patients (which never came). The Network reported that in April 2020, in addition to fewer cardiac surgeries, there were 38 per cent fewer cancer surgeries, 73 per cent fewer vascular surgeries, 81 per cent fewer transplant surgeries, 94 per cent fewer pediatric surgeries and 96 per cent fewer other adult surgeries compared with April 2019.

https://www.jccf.ca/government-data-shows-lockdowns-more-deadly-than-covid-19/

[oops]

54 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Businesses are going to die. That is a terrible thing but it pales to insignificance compared to people dying.

People dying is a tragedy. If a virus kills them, not our fault. If government actions kill them, that is our fault.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, oops said:

People dying is a tragedy. If a virus kills them, not our fault. If government actions kill them, that is our fault.

What if they die of the virus due to government inaction?

[Queenmandy85]

Am I correct in thinking you and I are on common ground that the healthcare system needs more money?

When all this is over, governments at all levels will have to raise taxes. Beware of the politician who tries to scam us by saying (s)he will not raise taxes. They have no choice. 

 

[Aristides]

56 minutes ago, oops said:

People dying is a tragedy. If a virus kills them, not our fault. If government actions kill them, that is our fault.

So if the virus kills them it's not our fault but if heart disease kills them it is our fault?

[OftenWrong]

Does it need more money... good question. Having work in it for a few decades, and my wife as well who is still there now, I say no. It needs less dunderheads. Since about 1990 MBA's have run these places, and as you see are doing a fine job. Yes, a very fine job.

PS El Mafioso and the Hell's Angels actually run the province of ON.

No, I am not mad...

[SpankyMcFarland]

19 hours ago, oops said:

Yes I do, It has the densest  population of all the Nordic countries, and is the most industrialized . It has more outside contacts and outside workers. Twist it how you want, Europe is Europe, population density is population density, and choosing the comparables to paint your  own picture is a sign of ignorance. 

You’re not comparing like with like there. The Nordic countries are a distinct group. That is where you should look for Sweden’s peers. Supporters of Sweden’s approach did that at first until it became untenable.