Does B.C. 2020 look like Orwell's 1984?

[Cannucklehead]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 It's conjecture, not supported by real world evidence. You cannot prove by what didn't happen. I can show you what did happen.

But with the strong lockdown measures instituted in March, Health Canada predicted the death range was likely to fall between 11,000 and 22,000 deaths. It then developed models based on between 2.5 per cent and 10 per cent of the population contracting the virus over the course of the pandemic.

 

Thats pretty darn close imo.  Of course its all conjecture, but that's the whole point.  

 

You cannot honestly believe that if we just went about as we were last year we'd still be at 9000 deaths, can you?   

[OftenWrong]

58 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

You cannot honestly believe that if we just went about as we were last year we'd still be at 9000 deaths, can you? 

No, that is not the argument being made. Does B.C. 2020 look like Orwell's 1984.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Cannucklehead]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No, that is not the argument being made. Does B.C. 2020 look like Orwell's 1984.

 

OK then let's examine that claim.  

First, what is an orwellian society?  

"Orwellian" is an adjective describing a situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free and open society.

So the basic idea i gather is that these rules and restrictions are making b.c. an orwellian society.   

But what happens when they are not?

I don't know about  everyone else here but my idea of a free and open society does not involve a tube shoved down my throat.....

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Cannucklehead

[Shady]

Flattening the curve somehow morphed into nobody ever dying from COVID again.  That was never the point.  It shouldn’t be.

[oops]

23 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

OK then let's examine that claim.  

First, what is an orwellian society?  

"Orwellian" is an adjective describing a situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free and open society.

So the basic idea i gather is that these rules and restrictions are making b.c. an orwellian society.   

But what happens when they are not?

I don't know about  everyone else here but my idea of a free and open society does not involve a tube shoved down my throat.....

 

 

Orwell told of a society where the government where big brother controlled the population,  where personal freedoms were discouraged, and unofficially outlawed, where people were encouraged to spy on others and report any unsanctioned behavior and the violators punished. The thought police told everyone what to think, and individual thought was not tolerated. We are not there yet, but we are drifting in that direction. Recently it was illegal to operate your own restaurant, or other small business, send you kids to school or gather with your friends. The excuse for all of this is that we need to spread infections over a longer time span so our health care system won't be overwhelmed. It isn't. The government is unable to stop medelling in peoples lives. You can't let your fear stop other people from living their lives.

[Cannucklehead]

43 minutes ago, oops said:

 

So if the people got sick can the government refuse to pay for their health care bills if they get sick?  Since they refuse to comply with everything and want to live in anarchy I don't see why they shouldn't.  

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

So if the people got sick can the government refuse to pay for their health care bills if they get sick?  Since they refuse to comply with everything and want to live in anarchy I don't see why they shouldn't.  

Only if there's a private health care option where I can pull my money out of government chivatto coffers.

[oops]

The government should be providing education for our children, not withholding it. The government should be fostering small business not crippling it. The government should be enabling people to live a  life freely associating with others, not making it a crime. The virus is under control, the government is not. 

[dialamah]

Per recent events and resultant studies, the virus can be transported around the world in fozen meats and its thought this has caused outbreaks in places where there'd been no cases for many weeks.

Surviving Covid also doesn't creste immunity, so "herd immunity" ain't ever gonna happen.

This virus isn't well understood, and it's certainly not "under control".  

 

[Cannucklehead]

1 hour ago, oops said:

The government should be providing education for our children, not withholding it. The government should be fostering small business not crippling it. The government should be enabling people to live a  life freely associating with others, not making it a crime. The virus is under control, the government is not. 

The government should also be responsible for our safety and well being.  The virus is " under control" because of all the lockdowns and precautions.  Sure it would be great if they could eradicate the virus completely, but until a vaccine is produced that is highly unlikely.  

 

The government is spending billions on subsidies for employers and workers.  Schools are reopening safely.  

So what's the problem?  I'm sure can live without some luxuries for a while.  

[oops]

10 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

The government should also be responsible for our safety and well being.  The virus is " under control" because of all the lockdowns and precautions.  Sure it would be great if they could eradicate the virus completely, but until a vaccine is produced that is highly unlikely.  

 

The government is spending billions on subsidies for employers and workers.  Schools are reopening safely.  

So what's the problem?  I'm sure can live without some luxuries for a while.  

Our schools were closed from March to September. Our children missed over one third of the school year. Schools are scheduled to open at limited capacity in September.

 

Failing to provide the best education for our children isn’t a problem for you, say it aint so.

 

Before the closures, my mom had access to a seniors centre, she played bridge twice a week, went with her friends 2 or 3 times a week to local restaurants on their bus, saw plays, went to an over 90s club among other events.

 

Diminishing the quality of life of our seniors is not a problem for you, say it aint so.

 

Before the closures I used to attend sporting events, live music events, family birthdays and weddings among other things, with my family and friends.

 

Messing with our social fabric is not a problem for you, say it aint so.

 

Government has gone on a spending binge, while reducing it’s citizens, and business ability to contribute to the economy.

 

Saddling our future generations with an enormous debt which is beyond their ability to repay is not a problem for you. Say it aint so.

 

You can avoid the virus by becoming a hermit, and living in a cave. Don’t think that it is right to tell the rest of the world to follow suit.

[Cannucklehead]

My nephews were learning by distance the whole time, so I don't see how children could miss out on education. 

 

Seniors are the highest risk for covid.  Would you rather attend her funeral?  She could play bridge online i am sure, or invite three friends to her house(or one of them to theirs)

We went through all of this in the Spanish flu pandemic so I don't see any reason we cannot today.  There was no internet back then.  Many people did not have cars or electricity.  And they pulled through, after a world war no less.  

Why would you think I'd have to live like a hermit?  I can go out anytime I want, provided I wear a mask. 

 

So can you.  

[oops]

18 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

My nephews were learning by distance the whole time, so I don't see how children could miss out on education. 

 

Seniors are the highest risk for covid.  Would you rather attend her funeral?  She could play bridge online i am sure, or invite three friends to her house(or one of them to theirs)

We went through all of this in the Spanish flu pandemic so I don't see any reason we cannot today.  There was no internet back then.  Many people did not have cars or electricity.  And they pulled through, after a world war no less.  

Why would you think I'd have to live like a hermit?  I can go out anytime I want, provided I wear a mask. 

 

So can you.  

A US senator recently said something like this. I am amazed by the capacity of people to endure the pain and suffering of others. Glad your world is so peachy.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, oops said:

 I am amazed by the capacity of people to endure the pain and suffering of others. Glad your world is so peachy.

"Pain and suffering" from missing sporting events, (government) hosted card parties, eating out.

Perhaps you'd have been happier if your mom had contracted this virus while playing cards at the seniors center, or from a server at a restaurant.  

Perhaps you'd have been more satisfied to experience the virus ripping through the community at breakneck speed, overwhelming our hospitals and killing thousands more people - not just from the virus, but from the lack of medical facilities for heart attacks, strokes, car accidents etc., because the hospital was full of Covid patients.

We, as a country, worked well enough and fast enough that the virus didn't have a chance to get a good foothold, as it did in Italy and Spain.  We've done so well, in fact, that snowflakes such as yourself can whine about how you've had to miss sporting events and card games.

Good god, what would you people do if something serious happened - like a world war, where lights are shut off at night and everything from coal to butter is rationed?  You'd probably collapse into a sniveling tantrum about how your "quality of life" was impacted by bombs, and demand that the government surrender so you could go to a sports game.

[taxme]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:05 PM, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/6/19/1_4991365.html

The fact that Canada has only seen a fraction of the illnesses and deaths projected in early worst-case scenarios is testament to the success of preventative measures, says Zain Chagla, a physician at St. Joseph’s Hospital and Hamilton Health Sciences in Hamilton, Ont.

 

So, says a physician that no doubt is on the Bill Gates to hell payroll. There is no proof that all the measures that were taken worked at all. You are only going by what those trained seal globalist politicians, the media, and those so called health experts tell you. What proof do you have anyway yourself? Have you done your own research to see if all the so called facts told to you are for real? Try looking at some alternative news websites for a change and try and get the other side of the story. The internet has plenty of websites for that. 

We are all now living in an Orwellian communist dream come true country. You have lost your freedom to pretty much be able to do anything that you once did freely and took for granted. You have appeared to have become one of those trained seals that will believe and have accepted anything that their politicians, the media or some health expert tells you. Can you tell me as to when it was the last time you heard a politician actually tell you the truth about anything? If you can, please show me. I await your reply. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by taxme

[Cannucklehead]

Not long ago, I could not go to a movie theater.

Not long ago, I could not go to a restaurant.

Not long ago, I could not go to a gym.  

Not long ago, etc....

Are you a teenage girl that cries about everything being the end of the world?  

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Good god, what would you people do if something serious happened - 

We would face the problem and try to deal with it, while you people run and hide in your cages. As evident 

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Cannucklehead said:

Not long ago, I could not go to a movie theater.

Not long ago, I could not go to a restaurant.

Not long ago, I could not go to a gym.  

Not long ago, etc....

Those issues are not terribly important on a given day. But to those who had jobs and made their living in those businesses, its a different story.

More to the point, not long ago a person could have group therapy. Not ling ago they could get drug snd alcohol counselling. Physio. 

The lineup for medical diagnostics and procedures is baclogged even more than it was backlogged. Thousands of people on cardiac and cancer diagnostic procedures waiting list. Anyone with common sense can figure out what these things mean.

Those who are not in that kind of situation should be more sympatjetic to these peoples plight. Their health has been put at risk.

[oops]

Are you a teenage girl that cries about everything being the end of the world?  

 

I know that you don’t care about the things that enrich the quality of life, so why should I be surprised to discover that you are a misogynist?

Here is a thought. Where will a government that is spending billions of dollars fighting covid, while at the same time crippling it’s revenue producers' get the money to operate our hospitals and schools. Won’t the hospitals be overwhelmed if there is no money to pay our care providers? What if you need a hospital and there is no one there?

 

[Cannucklehead]

23 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Ah yes and its the governments fault that hospitals were jammed with people dying of covid.  

 

They secretly plotted with china and unleashed the virus on us, gave us free money to stay at home while "everything" was closed so they could play the "cruel dictator" for a couple of months.   

[Cannucklehead]

20 minutes ago, oops said:

 

Head to your local hospital and see if they are shuttering their doors due to a lack of funding.  

The government does not run the way you are thinking.  Not even by a long shot.  

[OftenWrong]

24 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Ah yes and its the governments fault that hospitals were jammed with people dying of covid.  

Never happened in Canada. Most hospitals, esp those out in the boonies, barely used their covid wards at all. That certainly had to be the case in much of BC.

Nevertheless they shut er down like a concentration camp. And put deadpan Bonnie Biddie in front of a microphone, to portray the need for love for one another. Its a social commitment!

 

[oops]

They secretly plotted with china and unleashed the virus on us, gave us free money to stay at home while "everything" was closed so they could play the "cruel dictator" for a couple of months.   

Nice try, but this government is not that clever. I have to say though that you show more imagination than your average despot groupie.

[Cannucklehead]

 

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Well obviously in the boonies its easier to maintain a distance.....

And why would you go to a hospital for non necessary surgery in the middle of a pandemic?  That's the last place I would go unless I was dying.  Just increases the risk of me getting infected. 

[OftenWrong]

9 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

And why would you go to a hospital for non necessary surgery in the middle of a pandemic?  That's the last place I would go unless I was dying.  Just increases the risk of me getting infected. 

Of course, but they also cancelled diagnostic procedures for people who were being examined for serious diseases. There was no diagnostic radiology at all, for example, unless someone was dying, heart attack, car accident. Otherwise if you had cancer symptoms and needed an MRI or other tests, you were on hold.

Theyve only recently started these services again.

So the government chivattos decide who lives and dies. Another hallmark of socialism.

Edited August 27, 2020 by OftenWrong