Will Canadian Society be Transformed after Covid 19

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, Rue said:

Well then...rather than have them stress out, shoot them then. You save money and needless suffering. Actually bulletsxare expensive. Give them cyanide mixed with a sedative. 

What?  Get real.  Death is a lot worse than stress.  No one is advocating death.  We protect people as best we can.  What does that mean?  Make sure when you measure health outcomes that you do so in a comprehensive way, taking into account all the delayed surgeries, the impact of poverty and hunger on families, the impact on mental health of lack of socialization and physical outlets.  We also need to do a much better job of protecting the vulnerable than we have done, especially in seniors’ homes.  It means public spending which requires economic activity, the dignity of work, and building a sense of community.  Keeping everyone at home isn’t the answer, at least not in the long term.  Lifting all restrictions is reckless.  We will live with social distancing, frequent hand-washing, and requiring masks in certain situations for some time after we get back to work, but we can’t get back to work without these measures.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re the one advocating getting back to work as soon as possible. Which is it?  Getting back to work sooner means essential changes to enhance public safety.  I believe that we can do this at the same time that we rethink the meaning of work and change work to better suit humanity going forward.  We will need to be adaptable, light on our feet, and have our priorities straight.  Nature gives us no choice but to adapt.  No matter how you slice it there will be deaths.  We need to proceed wisely.  A crisis is a terrible opportunity to waste.  

No rethinking required, thanks to people like this.  Gosh but they're heroes!  The Blitz spirit personified.  Dunkirk, Waterloo and the playing fields of Eton all rolled into one.  I think I'm going to cry...

 

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bcsapper said:

No rethinking required, thanks to people like this.  Gosh but they're heroes!  The Blitz spirit personified.  Dunkirk, Waterloo and the playing fields of Eton all rolled into one.  I think I'm going to cry...

 

I actually think it’s important to respect these people’s right to associate.  They may think differently when no one associates with them.  They are older and risking their health, but I support their freedom.  Fuck the snitches.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I actually think it’s important to respect these people’s right to associate.  They may think differently when no one associates with them.  They are older and risking their health, but I support their freedom.  Fuck the snitches.

You can't have it both ways, unfortunately.  Either there is a new normal or there is not.  Either we take care not to infect the vulnerable or we don't.  Fuck the self absorbed looney bastards in the photo.

Edit>  Except the policeman of course.

2nd edit>  I want to make it clear I'm not denying their right to be self absorbed looney bastards.  Just stating that such is what they are.

Edited May 17, 2020 by bcsapper

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You can't have it both ways, unfortunately.  Either there is a new normal or there is not.  Either we take care not to infect the vulnerable or we don't.  Fuck the self absorbed looney bastards in the photo.

Edit>  Except the policeman of course.

They can continue to exercise their freedom and we can still have restrictions and guidelines that most people follow.  These people wouldn’t keep their jobs if they didn’t follow rules.  Stores will make them social distance.  People in parks won’t go near them. People will shake their heads and call them fools. Nevertheless, I prefer to live in a country that lets such people be.  

Edited May 17, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

They can continue to exercise their freedom and we can still have restrictions and guidelines that most people follow.  These people wouldn’t keep their jobs if they didn’t follow rules.  Stores will make them social distance.  People in parks won’t go near them. People will shake their heads and call them fools. Nevertheless, I prefer to live in a country that lets such people be.  

Yeah, I put the 2nd edit in there after you quoted me here.  They're like semi automatic rifle owners.  Should not have the rights taken away, but you never know when one of them is going to kill someone.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, I put the 2nd edit in there after you quoted me here.  They're like semi automatic rifle owners.  Should not have the rights taken away, but you never know when one of them is going to kill someone.

Except that they aren’t armed and people, including the vulnerable, can choose to stay away from them.  Government cannot and should not control everything.  We have choice.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Except that they aren’t armed and people, including the vulnerable, can choose to stay away from them.  Government cannot and should not control everything.  We have choice.

They're still selfish looneys.  I'd rather go shopping with a responsible gun owner than with one of those tossers.

Government should not control everything, no.  We do elect them to control some stuff, though.  That said, I don't think mandatory poisoning was ever discussed in parliament.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

You people really are a bunch of idyllic dreamers, aren't you. You are foolish to think that the world will be a better place after "the virus". Once we get the green light, this stuff will be cranked up to 1000. There's a ton of backlogged work to be done. You'll have to put in your full day at the office and work from home on evening and weekends to catch up. Don't forget, now you owe them big time, government and employer sustained you for months and they will be calling for their pound of flesh, plus interest on their losses so make it a pound and a half.

Don't like it? Buh bye. There's 10M desperate dipsticks waiting in line waiting for your spot. You should be thankful you have a job at all. On your knees, punk.

And you guys are unrepentant doomsters. Climate alarmism is nothing compared to economic alarmism.  The only reason for the desperation will be if we eschew 21st century socialism for 19th century capitalism.

I can see how some people in a few of the petris-dish States to the south of us will submit to your vision but I suspect the rest of us will figure out how to share the work and get by on a little less and learn to be happier for it.  A lot of bosses and governments will just have to get used to it or leave.  We've sustained them plenty enough the old way now it's time for something new and improved, from our point of view not theirs.  They should be thankful we haven't sicced a cultural revolution on them and thrown them all into a gulag.

It should be clear that the economy will simply need to be gentler and even compassionate towards everything us and the planet.  This virus and the crisis it's precipitated has certainly done that in terms of our environment by dialling back the pace of the economy, and I fail to see why we can't adapt ourselves to that slower pace without coming unhinged as a society or blowing up the economy.  I suspect the spectre of returning to the Before Times via some brutal sociopathic period of foreclosures and depression will give many pause to consider.   We're in that pause right now so what we make of it is up to us.  We have choices.

Edited May 17, 2020 by eyeball

[Independent1986]

46 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I suspect the rest of us will figure out how to share the work and get by on a little less and learn to be happier for it. 

I am curious to find out how are you going to enforce this idea to be happier with less ? What if one person in that group works harder and has better ideas than someone that is lazy or is just a follower ? Tell us, Mr. Red General how are you going to make sure you keep people in line ?  

[OftenWrong]

54 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It should be clear that the economy will simply need to be gentler and even compassionate towards everything us and the planet.

Tell that to the Banks, who did little to help out. Well they were nice enough to give out lots of loans with interest. And no penalty if you don't make your mortgage, but the interest continues on the delayed portion of the loan. Not just what you owe them to pay back, but they're making money on the fact people cannot pay. Is that necessary?

Hell no. But it is a "clear" example of their attitude. "Compassionate towards everything us and the planet" is in your dreams alone. Simply not part of this reality.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re the one advocating getting back to work as soon as possible. Which is it?  Getting back to work sooner means essential changes to enhance public safety.  I believe that we can do this at the same time that we rethink the meaning of work and change work to better suit humanity going forward.

I never said go back to the way it was before immediately. I wouldn't expect that. Yet we are going back to work, on Tuesday. Despite that the virus is still raging on, infection rate still high in our country and there is no PPE available. People will be allowed to go in to stores and not wear masks or gloves, but should maintain physical distance. That's it. Nt very different than before, is it.

I am advocating start up the health services immediately. On Tuesday you'll be able to go into pot stores and buy weed, into beer ad liquor stores to buy hooch (always could do that) and yet important medical services are still suspended. Are you kidding me?

[Queenmandy85]

On the bright side, after the Black Death, the economy of Europe surged. The Kansas Flu of 1918-1920 led into the roaring twenties. Nobody can predict what will happen after this pandemic.

[Queenmandy85]

9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Tell that to the Banks, who did little to help out. Well they were nice enough to give out lots of loans with interest. And no penalty if you don't make your mortgage, but the interest continues on the delayed portion of the loan. Not just what you owe them to pay back, but they're making money on the fact people cannot pay. Is that necessary?

You do realize they are lending you other people's money. The interest they charge has to be paid to the people they borrow from. Some of us (pensioners) depend on that interest to put bread on the table.

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

I am curious to find out how are you going to enforce this idea to be happier with less ? What if one person in that group works harder and has better ideas than someone that is lazy or is just a follower ? Tell us, Mr. Red General how are you going to make sure you keep people in line ?  

I'm happy enough just ridiculing people who can't discuss the economy without weaponizing it with a bunch of moralistic hooey.  I think people who imagine bettering themselves involves adopting the attitude that everyone around them is a lazy follower have probably got other issues that will naturally hold them back.

[New World Disorder]

7 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You do realize they are lending you other people's money. The interest they charge has to be paid to the people they borrow from. Some of us (pensioners) depend on that interest to put bread on the table.

It's more of how our federal bank 'printed' billions of dollars and loaned that to the banks. This is devaluing the CND / CAD.  Your pensions have not been wisely invested by the banks and those savings are going to take a huge hit. Many sectors where your money has been invested, will fail.

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Tell that to the Banks, who did little to help out. Well they were nice enough to give out lots of loans with interest. And no penalty if you don't make your mortgage, but the interest continues on the delayed portion of the loan. Not just what you owe them to pay back, but they're making money on the fact people cannot pay. Is that necessary?

Hell no. But it is a "clear" example of their attitude. "Compassionate towards everything us and the planet" is in your dreams alone. Simply not part of this reality.

The Banks? You really like putting these things on a pedestal don't you? If The Banks insist on receiving their attitude adjustment the old-fashioned socialist way then so be it I guess.  You figure on getting in the way or something?

How about instead of a God-awful bloody cultural revolution we just tell the government to stop getting our money into our hands via The God Almighty Banks and just send it to us directly?  Other than the parasitic function of siphoning off the interest that should be coming to us they stick it to us even more by more profiting off our transactions like they were some government charging a GST.  Fuck em all and throw everyone of these lazy unproductive slackers out of work and transact everything thru our own bank with smartphones and QR codes.  Who even wants cash anymore when its likely covered in germs?  

[OftenWrong]

27 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You do realize they are lending you other people's money. The interest they charge has to be paid to the people they borrow from. Some of us (pensioners) depend on that interest to put bread on the table.

They'll be borrowing from China. But hey, whatever it takes to keep you in  good pension, right?

[Independent1986]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

everyone around them is a lazy follower have probably got other issues that will naturally hold them back.

When did I say "everyone" ? Don't use propaganda, is not nice.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

The Banks? You really like putting these things on a pedestal don't you? If The Banks insist on receiving their attitude adjustment the old-fashioned socialist way then so be it I guess.  You figure on getting in the way or something?

How about instead of a God-awful bloody cultural revolution we just tell the government to stop getting our money into our hands via The God Almighty Banks and just send it to us directly?  Other than the parasitic function of siphoning off the interest that should be coming to us they stick it to us even more by more profiting off our transactions like they were some government charging a GST.  Fuck em all and throw everyone of these lazy unproductive slackers out of work and transact everything thru our own bank with smartphones and QR codes.  Who even wants cash anymore when its likely covered in germs?  

Now we're talking. I guess your Grandkids aren't around to listen today, so let's have it.

[eyeball]

27 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You do realize they are lending you other people's money.

So why not lend people our own money from our own bank and profit from the interest ourselves?

What's the point of having a bank that just gives our opportunity to someone else?

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

When did I say "everyone" ? Don't use propaganda, is not nice.

Okay so take the word everyone out and insert someone . Same thing still applies. It certainly isn't nice to try and smear someone with your moral judgement and there's not much point unless you're trying to get everyone else to agree with you.

The simple fact is that the only way to really get society to swallow the hooey you guys are selling is to convince everyone that being a hard-assed sphincter is not just the only way forward but it's also the best way forward.  Good luck with that and even better luck trying to force people to accept it.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Now we're talking. I guess your Grandkids aren't around to listen today, so let's have it.

Have what?

Anyway it'll have to wait - my turn to cook dinner and I have to go hunt and gather it first.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Have what?

Anyway it'll have to wait - my turn to cook dinner and I have to go hunt and gather it first.

Hope the lineup at the grocery's not too long...

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Independent1986 said:

I am curious to find out how are you going to enforce this idea to be happier with less ? What if one person in that group works harder and has better ideas than someone that is lazy or is just a follower ? 

Followers are, ultimately, more important than leaders.  Without followers you're just a crackpot mumbling to yourself.