The Coronavirus

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

US deaths - 55,879 

Can Deaths - 2,560 

US is 8.73 times Canada's population

US deaths are 21.82 times Canada

Your statement makes no sense.

We have nothing to compare to NYC. The population of BC rides their subway system every day, and BC has our 3rd largest city, and it has the 3rd largest population of any province. Our 3rd largest city rides their subway every day, along with all of the other largest cities in BC. 

You're taking a misleading stat and making it the central focus of your defence of Trudeau. That makes you a propagandist.

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We have nothing to compare to NYC.

Well, we do, sort of. Half our cases are in Quebec, with over 1500 deaths there. out of about 2500. About two thirds of those deaths are in Montreal.

But even if you remove NYC from the equation you still get a US death rate that is 15.34 times Canada where their population is only 8 times Canada.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Argus

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

We have nothing to compare to NYC. The population of BC rides their subway system every day, and BC has our 3rd largest city, and it has the 3rd largest population of any province. Our 3rd largest city rides their subway every day, along with all of the other largest cities in BC. 

You're taking a misleading stat and making it the central focus of your defence of Trudeau. That makes you a propagandist.

Like two weeks ago, I did the math. And even if you take New York and New Jersey out of the equation, the US death toll is still higher than Canada's per capita. 

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Boges said:

Talking about Lying. 

You assume that New York's population density means that Canada's relatively low are statistically misleading. 

11M people in 800 sq km.

40M people in 10,000,000 sq km.

What is bigger? 800 sq km of 10 million sq km?

What would happen if you took 3,000 infected people and spread them out across Canada? How long would it take to infect 1,000,000 people? 

What would happen if you took 12 infected people and put them on the NYC subway? How long would it take to infect 1,000,000 people? 

Probably about the same amount of time. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Like two weeks ago, I did the math. And even if you take New York and New Jersey out of the equation, the US death toll is still higher than Canada's per capita. 

 

True, but California (similar population) is doing better than Canada.   Various factors determine infection and mortality rates between countries and even within countries.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

11M people in 800 sq km.

40M people in 10,000,000 sq km.

What is bigger? 800 sq km of 10 million sq km?

What would happen if you took 3,000 infected people and spread them out across Canada? How long would it take to infect 1,000,000 people? 

What would happen if you took 12 infected people and put them on the NYC subway? How long would it take to infect 1,000,000 people? 

Probably about the same amount of time. 

That's conjecture. 

Also, you assume Canada doesn't have cities. 

We've been over this. Your logic doesn't extend to Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania and other states that have way more cases and deaths per capita than comparable places in Canada. 

[WestCanMan]

@Boges, Argus

One country has big cities, several massive airports, several massive transit systems.

One country has small cities, 1 large-ish airport, and a couple massive transit systems.

FYI YVR is the 25th busiest airport in NA. Pearson is 10th. Mtl is 35th. 

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

True, but California (similar population) is doing better than Canada.   Various factors determine infection and mortality rates between countries and even within countries.

First time ever you want to brag about California, I'd reckon. 

I'm astonished people in California are putting up with Social Distancing considering their relatively low numbers. They've done a great job. But, as I noted before, their testing per capita is actually quite low. 

But then again BC has really low numbers after being the first hot spot. 

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

@Boges, Argus

One country has big cities, several massive airports, several massive transit systems.

One country has small cities, 1 large-ish airport, and a couple massive transit systems.

FYI YVR is the 25th busiest airport in NA. Pearson is 10th. Mtl is 35th. 

Do you ever leave BC? 

What's your definition of a small city? 

There are only 3 cities in the US bigger than Toronto. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

First time ever you want to brag about California, I'd reckon. 

 

???   I lived in California for several years and have family there.   Has pluses and minuses, like many places.

California has the fifth largest economy in the world.

 

Quote

I'm astonished people in California are putting up with Social Distancing considering their relatively low numbers. They've done a great job. But, as I noted before, their testing per capita is actually quite low. 

But then again BC has really low numbers after being the first hot spot. 

 

There is no consistent standard for testing or and direct cause for deaths.   California locked down earlier than many other places, and may have been infected last year.

[WestCanMan]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's conjecture. 

Also, you assume Canada doesn't have cities. 

We've been over this. Your logic doesn't extend to Michigan, Georgia, Pennsylvania and other states that have way more cases and deaths per capita than comparable places in Canada. 

My "conjecture" is a combination of actual, pertinent data and your dysfunctional imagination.

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

Do you ever leave BC? 

What's your definition of a small city? 

There are only 3 cities in the US bigger than Toronto. 

That's why I listed the airports, not the "cities".

By your "stats", Vancouver only has 675K people. Edmonton has a population of 981K. Do you think Edm is really bigger than Vcr? 

The city size stat is misleading because you have some areas like the GTA and GVRD which are large groups of "small" cities and some "big cities" like Edm which don't have small cities attached to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_population_centres_in_Canada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas

The USA has 21 urban centers with over 2M people. Canada has..... 3. The USA has 10 with over 4.

Toronto basically ties for 4th, 5th and 6th in the USA as an urban center, but LA is twice as big as TO, NYC more than 3x as big (18M).

[dialamah]

31 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Trump grabbed a fire extinguisher and pointed it the base of the flames.

You are taking a single action, which was only a partial ban, and hanging all your praise on that. In addition, commercial airlines had already suspended flights, the result of an advisory by public health officials to avoid travel to China. It's only Trump and Trumpsters who claim he was way ahead of everyone, or that his half-assed travel ban was some kind of genius move. 

Trump’s order did not fully “close” the U.S. off to China, as he asserts. It temporarily barred entry by foreign nationals who had traveled in China within the previous 14 days, with exceptions for the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Americans returning from China were allowed back after screening at select ports of entry and for 14 days afterward.

38 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That makes you a propagandist.

Pointing out your illogical thought processes and fantasy notions isn't the same as defending Trudeau.  I've already said, more than once, he coulda done better, along with virtually every leader in the world, including Trump. 

You, on the other hand, cannot seem to admit even the slightest failing in Trump.  I couldn't even call you a propagandist; a zealot would be more accurate.  

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You are taking a single action, which was only a partial ban, and hanging all your praise on that. In addition, commercial airlines had already suspended flights, the result of an advisory by public health officials to avoid travel to China. It's only Trump and Trumpsters who claim he was way ahead of everyone, or that his half-assed travel ban was some kind of genius move. 

I didn't say that Trump lead the entire world, I said that Trump was ahead of the WHO and ahead of Trudeau (by 45 days). They both called THE MOST OBVIOUS DEFENCE AGAINST THE PANDEMIC racist.

By your own admission, lots of countries and companies came to the obvious decision 45 days OR MORE before our village idiot did.

 

And then you act like it was just a partial ban because Americans were allowed to come home. THAT'S DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. And STUPID. Do you think that the US can deny their citzens the right to come home? Can you imagine the reaction to that? And then if they get sick, that means that the US is basically FORCING the Chinese to treat them, or both countries will be complicit in their deaths. ONCE AGAIN YOU'RE SPREADING IDIOTIC PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote

Pointing out your illogical thought processes and fantasy notions isn't the same as defending Trudeau.  I've already said, more than once, he coulda done better, along with virtually every leader in the world, including Trump. 

You, on the other hand, cannot seem to admit even the slightest failing in Trump.  I couldn't even call you a propagandist; a zealot would be more accurate.  

Once again, you're 100% wrong about everything that you say. 100% wrong - as usual.

I never said that everything Trump said or did was perfect.

1) I said that he did better than the WHO's stated guidelines and that's a proven fact. 

2) I said that he did better than Trudeau, because Trudeau followed the WHO's guidelines to the letter, and that's a proven fact.

3) I said that people who criticize Trump while acting like Trudeau did a better job of protecting Canadians are DEAD wrong, and when those people have had a chance to think things over and have been exposed to the pertinent facts but didn't manage to change ther opinions they're either STUPID OR PROPAGANDISTS. Fact. You're either an idiot or a propagandist/liar if you think that Trudeau did more to protect Canadians than Trump did to protect Americans. It's a proven fact and I don't give a rip if you concede that or not because you are a known liar/propagandist. I stated relevant facts, you posted spin and irrelevant details. 

4) I can actually admit failings of Trump no problem. At times he did downplay the effect of covid, exactly like Trudeau did. Trump did seem to comment about putting disinfectants directly into the body and it was ridiculous. Trump's bragging is too much. His name-calling is atrocious and hopefully it doesn't catch on or he will have single-handedly brought down the level of political discourse in the US, and lowering that bar seemed impossible until 4 years ago. He got a general to talk about the wall during a covid speech which was appalling - his covid speeches do blur the lines between information sessions and campaigning. His position on abortion isn't realistic, and if it was, it could be effective. 

You can make accurate criticisms against Trump all day, there are lots of them which are accurate, and I don't deny them. I JUST REFUTE THE IDIOTIC THINGS THAT YOU SAY, AND YOU SAY A LOT OF THEM. That doesn't make me a Trump zealot, it makes me honest and accurate. 

Trudeau was absolutely useless in the "fight" against covid. He did absolutely nothing to slow covid down before March 16th. FACT. He "fought" covid like he "fought" islamic state. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Trudeau got his marching orders from the US regarding our shutdown, because it came just 3 days after Trudeau spoke out against blocking travel. 

 

[dialamah]

14 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Trudeau got his marching orders from the US regarding our shutdown, because it came just 3 days after Trudeau spoke out against blocking travel. 

Certainly possible.  

As for the rest, the only time Trudeau has been mentioned is when you bring him up and you appear to be arguing against stuff I haven't said, so it's completely ignorable.  

[Boges]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

That's why I listed the airports, not the "cities".

By your "stats", Vancouver only has 675K people. Edmonton has a population of 981K. Do you think Edm is really bigger than Vcr? 

The city size stat is misleading because you have some areas like the GTA and GVRD which are large groups of "small" cities and some "big cities" like Edm which don't have small cities attached to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_population_centres_in_Canada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas

The USA has 21 urban centers with over 2M people. Canada has..... 3. The USA has 10 with over 4.

Toronto basically ties for 4th, 5th and 6th in the USA as an urban center, but LA is twice as big as TO, NYC more than 3x as big (18M).

That's why you use Per capita stats. If you factor in the population differential, the US still has more than twice the death rate. 

And, as mentioned to you multiple time, the US death rate is still higher if you exclude New York and New Jersey. I wonder what the figures look like if you exclude Quebec? 

 

 

[WestCanMan]

Just now, dialamah said:

the only time Trudeau has been mentioned is when you bring him up and you appear to be arguing against stuff I haven't said, so it's completely ignorable.  

Trump is getting lambasted as a covid-spreader by the media, and MLW sycophants, Trudeau is being treated like an anti-covid crusader, and it's the biggets farce ever concocted by the media.

What did Trudeau do before March 16th? Name one thing?

What did Trudeau do to help spread the virus before March 16th? I've named several things including leaving travel from China and other covid hotspots open - the most basic failure imaginable. Follwing the WHO's marching orders (ie - the recipe for a pandemic).  

[Rue]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

We have nothing to compare to NYC. The population of BC rides their subway system every day, and BC has our 3rd largest city, and it has the 3rd largest population of any province. Our 3rd largest city rides their subway every day, along with all of the other largest cities in BC. 

You're taking a misleading stat and making it the central focus of your defence of Trudeau. That makes you a propagandist.

The closest might be Singapore in the future..but no guarantee even then. New York has a large invisible  community of illegals, homeless, who do not exist in any census and die and disappear and no one knows. Just the people living in the sewer system alone consitute a large invisible no.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

That's why you use Per capita stats. If you factor in the population differential, the US still has more than twice the death rate. 

And, as mentioned to you multiple time, the US death rate is still higher if you exclude New York and New Jersey. I wonder what the figures look like if you exclude Quebec? 

You're trying to use skewed stats against decisive actions taken. It's idiotic. 

We both know that Trump took direct action against covid. We both know that Trudeau did absolutely nothing to fight covid until after March 16th. You can not deny that, or you wouldn't be comparing the infection rates from Canada's 4 people per sq km to America's 33 people per sq km.

They have 8x our population density. HOW DO YOU THINK THEIR SITUATION COMPARES TO OURS?

 

I'll say this again and I'd love for you to try to refute any of this:

Quote

The WHO's "anti-covid checklist" reads the exact same as the "recipe for spreading a pandemic". Literally everything that they said (don't wear masks, don't block travel from the virus's epicentre because it's racist, there is no H2H transmission) and did was contrary to common sense, science, conventional wisdom, and common anti-viral medical practices. Trudeau and his Minister of Myopicity & Health copied and pasted the WHO's recipe for spreading a pandemic to a tee. 

 

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, Rue said:

The closest might be Singapore in the future..but no guarantee even then. New York has a large invisible  community of illegals, homeless, who do not exist in any census and die and disappear and no one knows. Just the people living in the sewer system alone consitute a large invisible no.

Those countries that spent decades and billions of dollars preparing for something like this are like the brickhouse pig.

Funny that the WHO wants to ignore and mute Taiwan, which turns out to be one of the very best places on earth at fighting a pandemic. Go figger.

If the WHO wants to restore any credibility whatsoever they should hire Taiwan's top public health official for Tedros's position and demote Tedros to mail-room assistant.

[Boges]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're trying to use skewed stats against decisive actions taken. It's idiotic. 

We both know that Trump took direct action against covid. We both know that Trudeau did absolutely nothing to fight covid until after March 16th. You can not deny that, or you wouldn't be comparing the infection rates from Canada's 4 people per sq km to America's 33 people per sq km.

They have 8x our population density. HOW DO YOU THINK THEIR SITUATION COMPARES TO OURS?

 

I'll say this again and I'd love for you to try to refute any of this:

 

North of 55,000 deaths to under 3,000 deaths? 

I think those number speak for themselves. 

As with Trump, the credit and/or blame really goes to the Provincial leaders. They're the ones doing the work on the ground. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

North of 55,000 deaths to under 3,000 deaths? 

I think those number speak for themselves. 

As with Trump, the credit and/or blame really goes to the Provincial leaders. They're the ones doing the work on the ground. 

 

Did you really expect the United States with a population of 340,000,000 to have less than 3,000 deaths ?

Nobody else did....

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Did you really expect the United States with a population of 340,000,000 to have less than 3,000 deaths ?

Nobody else did....

We were talking about Per Capital stats. 

So maybe 35,000 if considering Apples to Apples. At a 10:1 ratio. 

So, per capita, it's approaching double. 

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

We were talking about Per Capital stats.

 

Grrrrrrrreat !    I am sure all those dead Canadians and their families will be glad about that.

Edited April 27, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, Boges said:

North of 55,000 deaths to under 3,000 deaths? 

I think those number speak for themselves. 

As with Trump, the credit and/or blame really goes to the Provincial leaders. They're the ones doing the work on the ground. 

Like I said, you're ignoring the fact that NYC has 13,000x our population density. The US in general has 8x our population density.

California has a bigger population than we do and they have less Covid deaths. 

Here's one for ya Boges. GREENLAND ONLY HAS 11 CONFIRMED COVID CASES. ZERO CONFIRMED DEATHS!!!!!!!!!! Geenland's death rate is 0% of ours. By Boges' standards, that means that the leader of Greenland did absolutely everything perfectly from day 1. There's absolutely no other explanation possible. Either we should send our Public Health Minister and our virologists and epidemiologists to Greenland to find out how to handle a pandemic, or your capacity for logic & reasoning is severely lacking.

Honestly are you a paid propagandist, because if you're not, you should be. You gobble and regurgitate blatant propaganda like a robot.