The Coronavirus

[OftenWrong]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

If we hadn't stopped people going to malls, stadiums, churches, beaches, movie theatres, restaurants etc. Imagine the death toll then.

Of course, but you are not listening to the argument. A solution that is arguably as bad or worse than allowing the disease to run rampant is what we have now. And no one is saying let it go rampant, either.

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Of course, but you are not listening to the argument. A solution that is arguably as bad or worse than allowing the disease to run rampant is what we have now. And no one is saying let it go rampant, either.

Exactly.  For some reason some people can't grasp the concept of re-opening the economy, but at the same time having a policy of mitigation and social distancing in place.  It's either lockdown or completely open like before the pandemic started.  I'm not sure if they're just really dumb, or purposely being obtuse.

[Boges]

People are looking to open the economy. But infections rates are still rising in certain places. So a smart plan needs to be taken. 

In Ontario, for example, we're still seeing 500 cases and 30 deaths a day. It's somewhat plateaued, but allowing people to go back to the mall is a great way to get it to skyrocket. 

These Social Distancing measures will be around for awhile. And letting more people go shopping won't change that. I can see people being frustrated and staying home if they have to wait inline to go to a mall. I already don't really want to go to Costco if I have to wait outside for 30 minutes because they're only letting X amount of people in at a time. 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Boges

[Boges]

Also, why are people trying to put the cart before the horse. 

Testing capabilities still are only reserved for people with symptoms. For us to go back to some realm of normal, people need to get tested onDemand.

Like when I thought I had Strep throat and got a swab by a walk-in clinic doctor and she came back 10 minutes later and told me the result. 

How exactly do you get a Haircut while practicing Social Distancing? How do you go to Gym while practicing Social Distancing? How do you go to school while practicing Social Distancing? 

We're still a long way off on a lot of these thing. 

Right now I'd just like to be able to see family and friends in their/my own homes. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Boges

[New World Disorder]

I don't think many parts of the economy will ever open because of this virus. You have already witnessed the destruction of the hospitality industries (travel, hotels, restaurants, specialty shops). Independant mom n pop stores will disappear. 

The demand for oil tanked, mind you, those sectors were already hurting before this pandemic.

Basically, we can expect to get into something called 'The Greatest Depression'. 

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, New World Disorder said:

I don't think many parts of the economy will ever open because of this virus. You have already witnessed the destruction of the hospitality industries (travel, hotels, restaurants, specialty shops). Independant mom n pop stores will disappear. 

The demand for oil tanked, mind you, those sectors were already hurting before this pandemic.

Basically, we can expect to get into something called 'The Greatest Depression'. 

It may force a lot of changes that were long overdue in those industries. 

My concern would be for places in the world that depend on tourism for their livelihood. 

I don't see the Cruiseship industry ever recovering. But that industry was such an awful and toxic business model anyway. Good riddance perhaps. 

[New World Disorder]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

It may force a lot of changes that were long overdue in those industries. 

My concern would be for places in the world that depend on tourism for their livelihood. 

I don't see the Cruiseship industry ever recovering. But that industry was such an awful and toxic business model anyway. Good riddance perhaps. 

The auto industries will be next. Since there is no demand for oil, there is no demand for cars and such. Plants will close, but the reason will be someone got the virus! Cargill in Canada and Tyson in the US have already closed a major meat processing and packing plant. So there is another issue, food supply.

The bigger problem, is that is not just local. Every nation is feeling the effects of the virus resulting in financial chaos!

[Shady]

Just now, New World Disorder said:

The auto industries will be next. Since there is no demand for oil, there is no demand for cars and such. Plants will close, but the reason will be someone got the virus! Cargill in Canada and Tyson in the US have already closed a major meat processing and packing plant. So there is another issue, food supply.

The bigger problem, is that is not just local. Every nation is feeling the effects of the virus resulting in financial chaos!

Complete nonsense.  Every industry will bounce back once this worst of the pandemic is over.  Some will take weeks, some months.  Some will need to wait until the vaccine is widely available, which would probably be 12 - 14 months.

[Shady]

The economic chaos is mostly self inflicted.  Countries would rather do that than suffer the 1.5% fatality rate.

[Iceni warrior]

7 minutes ago, Boges said:

It may force a lot of changes that were long overdue in those industries. 

My concern would be for places in the world that depend on tourism for their livelihood. 

I don't see the Cruiseship industry ever recovering. But that industry was such an awful and toxic business model anyway. Good riddance perhaps. 

Some tourist industries are extremely damaging to their environment too.

If this crisis results in a few airlines putting up their prices to survive and fewer people fly in future it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, New World Disorder said:

The auto industries will be next. Since there is no demand for oil, there is no demand for cars and such.

You'd think they'd finally realize that EVs and PHEVs are the way to go. 

The demand for EVs is in direct relation to the supply. If you can't realistically buy one you wont. 

If it's true that forcing Oil producers to stop production means they may never start back up, perhaps it's a good thing moving forward. 

 

Quote

Plants will close, but the reason will be someone got the virus! Cargill in Canada and Tyson in the US have already closed a major meat processing and packing plant. So there is another issue, food supply.

This speaks to the consolidation we've seen with our food. Hopefully we move back to a model where we don't get all our food from a handful of companies. 

 

Quote

The bigger problem, is that is not just local. Every nation is feeling the effects of the virus resulting in financial chaos!

Like with any crisis, it's the poor that feel every issue the worst. 

[Boges]

Just now, Shady said:

The economic chaos is mostly self inflicted.  Countries would rather do that than suffer the 1.5% fatality rate.

1.5% of 35 million is around 50,000 people. Again above and beyond deaths from traditional causes. 

It's amusing how cavalier you are about that in exchange for the ability to buy cheap clothes at the Gap. 

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Iceni warrior said:

Some tourist industries are extremely damaging to their environment too.

If this crisis results in a few airlines putting up their prices to survive and fewer people fly in future it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

Yeah that won't happen.  Once airlines are again competing with each other for travel, rates will depend on the market, just as they always have.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

1.5% of 35 million is around 50,000 people. Again above and beyond deaths from traditional causes. 

It's amusing how cavalier you are about that in exchange for the ability to buy cheap clothes at the Gap. 

Why don't we just kill the rich people and seize their assets to pay laid off workers ?  That would kill far fewer people ?

Of course I am playing devil's advocate.  I am far too much a Centrist to advocate revolution in 2020.  2021 is a different story of course....

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Some tourist industries are extremely damaging to their environment too.

If this crisis results in a few airlines putting up their prices to survive and fewer people fly in future it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

I agree, but people will only go to places that are naturally beautiful. It's the catch 22 of tourism. Tourism forces places to preserve their natural beauty and not abuse it. 

[New World Disorder]

Just now, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  Every industry will bounce back once this worst of the pandemic is over.  Some will take weeks, some months.  Some will need to wait until the vaccine is widely available, which would probably be 12 - 14 months.

Unemployment numbers are not looking good. That will continue, because nothing is open! No one's buying!  Over 1 million Canadians applied for the CERB in a single month. All while the government throws out billions and billions to support a failing economy to bail out failing business sectors like the airlines.

I wish I had your optimism! But reality is slapping me hard in the face. May have chipped a tooth, I should get it looked at, but my dentist is not seeing patients right now.

[Iceni warrior]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

 

This speaks to the consolidation we've seen with our food. Hopefully we move back to a model where we don't get all our food from a handful of companies. 

 

 

The fear of going into big supermarkets and their empty shelves has been a real positive for the smaller, local suppliers here. Let's hope that trend continues.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, New World Disorder said:

Unemployment numbers are not looking good. That will continue, because nothing is open! No one's buying!  Over 1 million Canadians applied for the CERB in a single month. All while the government throws out billions and billions to support a failing economy to bail out failing business sectors like the airlines.

I wish I had your optimism! But reality is slapping me hard in the face. May have chipped a tooth, I should get it looked at, but my dentist is not seeing patients right now.

The economy is not a switch. People aren't just going to go back if they don't see the risks of the virus diminished. 

[Shady]

1 minute ago, New World Disorder said:

Unemployment numbers are not looking good. That will continue, because nothing is open! No one's buying!  Over 1 million Canadians applied for the CERB in a single month. All while the government throws out billions and billions to support a failing economy to bail out failing business sectors like the airlines.

I wish I had your optimism! But reality is slapping me hard in the face. May have chipped a tooth, I should get it looked at, but my dentist is not seeing patients right now.

Of course unemployed numbers aren't looking good, we chose to shut down the economy.

[New World Disorder]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

You'd think they'd finally realize that EVs and PHEVs are the way to go. 

I like the idea of EVs, but even in a pandemic lockdown, where you going to drive your EV? My car has had a 1/4 tank for over 6 weeks. I must have saved 200-300 on fuel costs alone!

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

The demand for EVs is in direct relation to the supply. If you can't realistically buy one you wont. 

If it's true that forcing Oil producers to stop production means they may never start back up, perhaps it's a good thing moving forward. 

They have not stopped producing! Months ago the Saudis and Russians wanted the price of oil to increase, but now they are simply pumping out as much as they can. Baffles the mind.

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

This speaks to the consolidation we've seen with our food. Hopefully we move back to a model where we don't get all our food from a handful of companies. 

Yes this has been very dangerous.

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

Like with any crisis, it's the poor that feel every issue the worst. 

This is unfortunately the case. The poor are already squeezed by an unfair system, the middle class is going to feel that hurt now.

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why don't we just kill the rich people and seize their assets to pay laid off workers ?  That would kill far fewer people ?

Of course I am playing devil's advocate.  I am far too much a Centrist to advocate revolution in 2020.  2021 is a different story of course....

How is that the same?  Regardless, nobody is suggesting that the economy open up with no mitigation and no social distancing.  WHY IS THAT STILL SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO COMPREHEND????

[New World Disorder]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

Of course unemployed numbers aren't looking good, we chose to shut down the economy.

The government decided to shut down the economy, not the people.

[Iceni warrior]

3 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yeah that won't happen.  Once airlines are again competing with each other for travel, rates will depend on the market, just as they always have.

Perhaps not if they have to claw back the losses they have suffered or have to fly half empty planes due to a reluctancy of people to cram into small spaces while a potentially fatal virus is still doing the rounds.

There are likely to be fewer airlines too by the end of all this.

[Shady]

THE 1.5% FATALITY RATE IS IF WE DID NOTHING.  NOBODY IS SUGGESTING OPENING THE ECONOMY BACK UP DOING NOTHING!

[New World Disorder]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  For some reason some people can't grasp the concept of re-opening the economy, but at the same time having a policy of mitigation and social distancing in place.  It's either lockdown or completely open like before the pandemic started.  I'm not sure if they're just really dumb, or purposely being obtuse.

Maybe it's both!