Should Don Cherry Have Been Fired?

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

8 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

All you have to do is watch one of those old games to see where hockey has come, it's like they move in slow motion.

What level of hockey did you play, because you don't seem to know much about the evolution of the game

You don't seem to know much about the evolution of the game with your pretending hockey is so much better today nonsense.

The goalies got much better, that's the biggest change. The fourth liners got better, there is more depth today, but your recency bias is showing. The average player is faster today, but that doesn't mean hockey has gotten so much better that no one who played back then is any good.

Bobby Orr would have been one of the fastest, if not the fastest player in the game, if you could pull him out the past with a time machine in his prime and put him into the NHL today, he would not be out of place at all. He'd still be the best defensemen in hockey.

Stop fetishizing the present.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

11 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The fourth liners got better

Hmmm, seems like you're saying skill level is increasing

12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The goalies got much better,

Right im sure that has nothing to do skill

You're arguing my point there brother

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

4 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Hmmm, seems like you're saying skill level is increasing

Right im sure that has nothing to do skill

You're arguing my point there brother

That has nothing to do with rules changes. Nothing to do with the No Hit League you champion. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater because the game got better in spite of shitty rule changes. Stop buying into the NHL propaganda about the rules changing making the game more skilled, it's complete horseshit that is being used to sell even more terrible rules to rubes. Nerfing hockey does not make the game more skilled, the skilled players can play in any era, they don't need dumb rules to make them good.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

That has nothing to do with rules changes. Nothing to do with the No Hit League you champion. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater because the game got better in spite of shitty rule changes.

Again, i have in no way argued for the abolition of hitting, but keep arguing with the straw man you created.

Still waiting on what level you played, must have been high since you're such an authority

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

28 minutes ago, Boges said:

You're right. Let's just go back to the old days when players didn't wear helmets.

He probably thinks Plante was a whimp to put on a mask

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

3 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Again, i have in no way argued for the abolition of hitting, but keep arguing with the straw man you created.

Still waiting on what level you played, must have been high since you're such an authority

Appeal to authority is not a good argument, it's a fallacy. People who didn't play at a high level can have perfectly valid opinions, people who played at a high level don't necessarily have good opinions.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

2 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

He probably thinks Plante was a whimp to put on a mask

Nah goalies having masks helped them play better. Goalie masks are just common sense, talk about arguing against a strawman. Pretending that everyone who disagrees with you wants to make the game unskilled is a strawman you've been peddling from the start, even using it against Don Cherry.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Appeal to authority is not an argument. People who didn't play at a high level can have perfectly valid opinions, people who played at a high level don't necessarily have good opinions.

Accusing me of a logical fallacy while building a straw is pretty funny, but i wasn't necessarily making an appel to authority.

My point was if you've never actually been in a full contact game with grown men, you shouldn't promulgate the idea that anyone that encourages skill advocates for a weaker "no hit league"

Simply nonsense

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Nah goalies having masks helped them play better. Goalie masks are just common sense, talk about arguing against a strawman. Pretending that everyone who disagrees with you wants to make the game unskilled is a strawman you've been peddling from the start, even using it against Don Cherry.

Help you play better? Ever wear a goalie mask? Makes them safer yes, but the limited vision actually makes it harder to see the puck.

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

Just now, SkyHigh said:

Accusing me of a logical fallacy while building a straw is pretty funny, but i wasn't necessarily making an appel to authority.

My point was if you've never actually been in a full contact game with grown men, you shouldn't promulgate the idea that anyone that encourages skill advocates for a weaker "no hit league"

Simply nonsense

I have, but your point is a logical fallacy. People who havent been in a full contact game with grown men have every right to promulgate the idea that the NHL is the "No Hit League". It clearly is the "No Hit League", that is obvious to anyone who isn't under the mistaken impression that rules changes are responsible for the increase in skill.

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

11 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Help you play better? Ever wear a goalie mask? Makes them safer yes, but the limited vision actually makes it harder to see the puck.

Yeah but they don't have to worry about getting hit in the head nearly as much, which allowed them to stop all being stand up goalies and allowed them started playing the butterfly without getting hit in head way more often being a much bigger downside, to point where there are no more stand up goalies in the NHL. Which vastly improved the quality of goaltending, this is obvious to anyone who knows anything about hockey history.

Without masks, no butterfly. Without masks, all goalies would still be playing stand up to protect themselves from getting blasted in the head with the puck as often, and they'd still suck.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I have, but your point is a logical fallacy. People who havent been in a full contact game with grown men have every right to promulgate the idea that the NHL is the "No Hit League". It clearly is the "No Hit League", that is obvious to anyone who isn't under the mistaken impression that rules changes are responsible for the increase in skill.

Dude read what i wrote, never said you couldn't say what you think, I said claiming I am advocating for a no hit league because i prefer skill to goons is most definitely a straw man

Authority though, does help distinguish between those that have knowledge and those that speak entirely from opinion. I get my medical advice from a doctor not from the cashier at Wal-Mart.

If you take your opinion based on what a talking head, 40 years removed from any actual role in the game, instead of first hand experience( which you obviously don't have or you would have answered my question) you'll never be able to understand the complexity of the game, or the nuance of what im saying, but please tell me again i want contact eliminated from hockey

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

23 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Yeah but they don't have to worry about getting hit in the head nearly as much, which allowed them to stop all being stand up goalies and allowed them started playing the butterfly without getting hit in head way more often being a much bigger downside, to point where there are no more stand up goalies in the NHL. Which vastly improved the quality of goaltending, this is obvious to anyone who knows anything about hockey history.

Without masks, no butterfly. Without masks, all goalies would still be playing stand up to protect themselves from getting blasted in the head with the puck as often, and they'd still suck.

Sorry brother but glen hall used the butterfly without a mask

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

11 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Sorry brother but glen hall used the butterfly without a mask

That merely proves my point. Glenn Hall was an outlier until goalies started wearing masks, then the butterfly became the standard thanks to Patrick Roy. There is a reason it wasn't popular until goalie masks came along. Like I said, it helped make goalies better, because it reduced the damage they took from pucks to head, and allowed them to stop worrying about survival over stopping the puck, Glenn Hall himself said he often prioritized survival over stopping the puck.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

That merely proves my point. Glen Hall was an outlier until goalies started wearing masks, then the butterfly became the standard thanks to Patrick Roy.

What? You wrote goalies can play better with a mask, and the mask is responsible for the butterfly. A goalie mask limits vision and the butterfly was used by players that didn't wear one.

The fact it took decades before it was used commonly futher disproves your silly unfounded asertation that they are connected

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

2 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

What? You wrote goalies can play better with a mask, and the mask is responsible for the butterfly. A goalie mask limits vision and the butterfly was used by players that didn't wear one.

The fact it took decades before it was used commonly futher disproves your silly unfounded asertation that they are connected

The mask is responsible for the butterfly becoming popular, it only became popular after the mask came along. Derp.

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

That merely proves my point. Glen Hall was an outlier until goalies started wearing masks, then the butterfly became the standard thanks to Patrick Roy.

Francois Allaire, the godfather of todays butterfly style was 4 when plante first put on the mask, and didn't teach Roy the style for another 30 years. How are they related.

SkyHigh · November 13, 2019

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The mask is responsible for the butterfly becoming popular, it only became popular after the mask came along. Derp.

30 years later

Derp

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

6 minutes ago, SkyHigh said:

Francois Allaire, the godfather of todays butterfly style was 4 when plante first put on the mask, and didn't teach Roy the style for another 30 years. How are they related.

They are related because the mask made the butterfly more effective, because goalies weren't hurt as bad when they took pucks to the face. Hence why Glenn Hall wore one at the end of his career, if he was better without it, he wouldn't have worn it. Goalies were not forced to wear masks back then, but they naturally adopted them, because it helped them, not hurt them.

If Roy didn't have a mask, he could not have played that way as effectively in order to preserve his noggin, and the style would not have been popularized with his success.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

Yzermandius19 · November 13, 2019

1 minute ago, SkyHigh said:

30 years later

Derp

Things take time. Without the mask, it never would have happened at all.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Yzermandius19

Rue · November 13, 2019

On 11/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, PPC2019 said:

O wow.... A university professor? You could be a great asset. I didn't think the professors spent time on the forums.

I've been kicked off twitter trying to wake up the professors.

Good for you. Listen I can tell you if we say anything students complain. The moment they do not get a mark they like they file a complaint that we are racist aholes. I just went through 12 accusations all found false that took 3 weeks to investigate all precipitated by one ahole who did not like the mark I gave him hiding behind the race card. Its a fact of life. Freedom of speech is dead. If someone like me says anything it gets thrown back at us in a different context and meaning. Students illegally and without consent tape and film us with their cell phone and add and delete. I had a student tape and film me knowing another was. The other who wanted to complain to me sent in his cut version and I had the other one to back me up. Its ridiculous the lengths students go today to complain when they do not get a good mark. That is another issue. Is it racist though for me to say we have absolutely watered down the standard of education to accommodate international students who pay big bucks to go to our schools amounting to 7 billion a year? Is it racist to say they often can not read or write English at grade 5 level and I am told not to fail them? Its it racist to say the schools now cater to international students as a cash cow and its destroyed the school system? Is that racist? I am the first to commend and assist good international students and they exist. Am I a racist to say otherwise and point out the bad ones? When is a generalization a deliberate act of hatred or bigoted? We all debate that. It depends on context and intent. Hey I whine to Argus all the time about his getting to general in some comments about ALL Muslims but is it racist if he or someone suggests Islam is used to justify terrorism. Some believe the moment you say that its racist.

Oh face it we live in a censored society obsessed with imagined slights and victims.

Cherry's "you people" was a clumsy reference to all of us who came to Canada and all of us did. It was a clumsy reference certain people can use to make themselves feel outraged. His comment was right. We have numerous Canadians new and not so new who have come to this country to enjoy its benefits and refuse to acknowledge the price paid for those benefits. I am a friggin "you people" and I totally agree with him. I am not racist. I hate everyone. As for you just because I disagree with you or vice versa is no big fng deal. We debate right? What happened we can't disagree with people without having to censor them? The people I like the most on this forum I debate all the time. Its a sign of respect. It shows them you listen to what they write. Arguments and disagreements are great. Its what its about. Quite frankly I do not think Cherry gives a damn about his being fired.

Rue · November 13, 2019

On 11/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, PPC2019 said:

O wow.... A university professor? You could be a great asset. I didn't think the professors spent time on the forums.

I've been kicked off twitter trying to wake up the professors.

Good for you. Listen I can tell you if we say anything students complain. The moment they do not get a mark they like they file a complaint that we are racist aholes. I just went through 12 accusations all found false that took 3 weeks to investigate all precipitated by one ahole who did not like the mark I gave him hiding behind the race card. Its a fact of life. Freedom of speech is dead. If someone like me says anything it gets thrown back at us in a different context and meaning. Students illegally and without consent tape and film us with their cell phone and add and delete. I had a student tape and film me knowing another was. The other who wanted to complain to me sent in his cut version and I had the other one to back me up. Its ridiculous the lengths students go today to complain when they do not get a good mark. That is another issue. Is it racist though for me to say we have absolutely watered down the standard of education to accommodate international students who pay big bucks to go to our schools amounting to 7 billion a year? Is it racist to say they often can not read or write English at grade 5 level and I am told not to fail them? Its it racist to say the schools now cater to international students as a cash cow and its destroyed the school system? Is that racist? I am the first to commend and assist good international students and they exist. Am I a racist to say otherwise and point out the bad ones? When is a generalization a deliberate act of hatred or bigoted? We all debate that. It depends on context and intent. Hey I whine to Argus all the time about his getting to general in some comments about ALL Muslims but is it racist if he or someone suggests Islam is used to justify terrorism. Some believe the moment you say that its racist.

Oh face it we live in a censored society obsessed with imagined slights and victims.

Cherry's "you people" was a clumsy reference to all of us who came to Canada and all of us did. It was a clumsy reference certain people can use to make themselves feel outraged. His comment was right. We have numerous Canadians new and not so new who have come to this country to enjoy its benefits and refuse to acknowledge the price paid for those benefits. I am a friggin "you people" and I totally agree with him. I am not racist. I hate everyone. As for you just because I disagree with you or vice versa is no big fng deal. We debate right? What happened we can't disagree with people without having to censor them? The people I like the most on this forum I debate all the time. Its a sign of respect. It shows them you listen to what they write. Arguments and disagreements are great. Its what its about. Quite frankly I do not think Cherry gives a damn about his being fired.

Rue · November 13, 2019

On 11/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, PPC2019 said:

O wow.... A university professor? You could be a great asset. I didn't think the professors spent time on the forums.

I've been kicked off twitter trying to wake up the professors.

Good for you. Listen I can tell you if we say anything students complain. The moment they do not get a mark they like they file a complaint that we are racist aholes. I just went through 12 accusations all found false that took 3 weeks to investigate all precipitated by one ahole who did not like the mark I gave him hiding behind the race card. Its a fact of life. Freedom of speech is dead. If someone like me says anything it gets thrown back at us in a different context and meaning. Students illegally and without consent tape and film us with their cell phone and add and delete. I had a student tape and film me knowing another was. The other who wanted to complain to me sent in his cut version and I had the other one to back me up. Its ridiculous the lengths students go today to complain when they do not get a good mark. That is another issue. Is it racist though for me to say we have absolutely watered down the standard of education to accommodate international students who pay big bucks to go to our schools amounting to 7 billion a year? Is it racist to say they often can not read or write English at grade 5 level and I am told not to fail them? Its it racist to say the schools now cater to international students as a cash cow and its destroyed the school system? Is that racist? I am the first to commend and assist good international students and they exist. Am I a racist to say otherwise and point out the bad ones? When is a generalization a deliberate act of hatred or bigoted? We all debate that. It depends on context and intent. Hey I whine to Argus all the time about his getting to general in some comments about ALL Muslims but is it racist if he or someone suggests Islam is used to justify terrorism. Some believe the moment you say that its racist.

Oh face it we live in a censored society obsessed with imagined slights and victims.

Cherry's "you people" was a clumsy reference to all of us who came to Canada and all of us did. It was a clumsy reference certain people can use to make themselves feel outraged. His comment was right. We have numerous Canadians new and not so new who have come to this country to enjoy its benefits and refuse to acknowledge the price paid for those benefits. I am a friggin "you people" and I totally agree with him. I am not racist. I hate everyone. As for you just because I disagree with you or vice versa is no big fng deal. We debate right? What happened we can't disagree with people without having to censor them? The people I like the most on this forum I debate all the time. Its a sign of respect. It shows them you listen to what they write. Arguments and disagreements are great. Its what its about. Quite frankly I do not think Cherry gives a damn about his being fired.

Rue · November 13, 2019

On 11/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, PPC2019 said:

O wow.... A university professor? You could be a great asset. I didn't think the professors spent time on the forums.

I've been kicked off twitter trying to wake up the professors.

Good for you. Question and challenge everything. Listen I can tell you if we say anything students complain. The moment they do not get a mark they like they file a complaint that we are racist aholes. I just went through 12 accusations all found false that took 3 weeks to investigate all precipitated by one ahole who did not like the mark I gave him hiding behind the race card. Its a fact of life. Freedom of speech is dead. If someone like me says anything it gets thrown back at us in a different context and meaning. Students illegally and without consent tape and film us with their cell phone and add and delete. I had a student tape and film me knowing another was. The other who wanted to complain to me sent in his cut version and I had the other one to back me up. Its ridiculous the lengths students go today to complain when they do not get a good mark. That is another issue. Is it racist though for me to say we have absolutely watered down the standard of education to accommodate international students who pay big bucks to go to our schools amounting to 7 billion a year? Is it racist to say they often can not read or write English at grade 5 level and I am told not to fail them? Its it racist to say the schools now cater to international students as a cash cow and its destroyed the school system? Is that racist? I am the first to commend and assist good international students and they exist. Am I a racist to say otherwise and point out the bad ones? When is a generalization a deliberate act of hatred or bigoted? We all debate that. It depends on context and intent. Hey I whine to Argus all the time about his getting to general in some comments about ALL Muslims but is it racist if he or someone suggests Islam is used to justify terrorism. Some believe the moment you say that its racist.

Oh face it we live in a censored society obsessed with imagined slights and victims.

Cherry's "you people" was a clumsy reference to all of us who came to Canada and all of us did. It was a clumsy reference certain people can use to make themselves feel outraged. His comment was right. We have numerous Canadians new and not so new who have come to this country to enjoy its benefits and refuse to acknowledge the price paid for those benefits. I am a friggin "you people" and I totally agree with him. I am not racist. I hate everyone. As for you just because I disagree with you or vice versa is no big fng deal. We debate right? What happened we can't disagree with people without having to censor them? The people I like the most on this forum I debate all the time. Its a sign of respect. It shows them you listen to what they write. Arguments and disagreements are great. Its what its about. Quite frankly I do not think Cherry gives a damn about his being fired.

Rue · November 13, 2019

On 11/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, PPC2019 said:

O wow.... A university professor? You could be a great asset. I didn't think the professors spent time on the forums.

I've been kicked off twitter trying to wake up the professors.

Good for you. Question and challenge everything. Listen I can tell you if we say anything students complain. The moment they do not get a mark they like they file a complaint that we are racist aholes. I just went through 12 accusations all found false that took 3 weeks to investigate all precipitated by one ahole who did not like the mark I gave him hiding behind the race card. Its a fact of life. Freedom of speech is dead. If someone like me says anything it gets thrown back at us in a different context and meaning. Students illegally and without consent tape and film us with their cell phone and add and delete. I had a student tape and film me knowing another was. The other who wanted to complain to me sent in his cut version and I had the other one to back me up. Its ridiculous the lengths students go today to complain when they do not get a good mark. That is another issue. Is it racist though for me to say we have absolutely watered down the standard of education to accommodate international students who pay big bucks to go to our schools amounting to 7 billion a year? Is it racist to say they often can not read or write English at grade 5 level and I am told not to fail them? Its it racist to say the schools now cater to international students as a cash cow and its destroyed the school system? Is that racist? I am the first to commend and assist good international students and they exist. Am I a racist to say otherwise and point out the bad ones? When is a generalization a deliberate act of hatred or bigoted? We all debate that. It depends on context and intent. Hey I whine to Argus all the time about his getting to general in some comments about ALL Muslims but is it racist if he or someone suggests Islam is used to justify terrorism. Some believe the moment you say that its racist.

Oh face it we live in a censored society obsessed with imagined slights and victims.

Cherry's "you people" was a clumsy reference to all of us who came to Canada and all of us did. It was a clumsy reference certain people can use to make themselves feel outraged. His comment was right. We have numerous Canadians new and not so new who have come to this country to enjoy its benefits and refuse to acknowledge the price paid for those benefits. I am a friggin "you people" and I totally agree with him. I am not racist. I hate everyone. As for you just because I disagree with you or vice versa is no big fng deal. We debate right? What happened we can't disagree with people without having to censor them? The people I like the most on this forum I debate all the time. Its a sign of respect. It shows them you listen to what they write. Arguments and disagreements are great. Its what its about. Quite frankly I do not think Cherry gives a damn about his being fired.