Terrorist Iran kidnaps a British crew with its oil tanker

[QuebecOverCanada]

Obama trusted those terrorists... this is what we get. The Iranians never were a regime to be trusted, ever. They were dishonest from the start; when it comes to the Uranium enrichment limit, to the heavy water storage limit, to their goal to build nuclear weapons.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49053383

We should have never trusted this terrorist Shiite state. They are willing to die for a cause; an international islamic revolution, which started in 1979.

[betsy]

Obama succumbed to extortion from Iran - plain and simple.

The world should just cripple Iran with sanctions to the point that their own people will revolt against the regime.   Severe punishments to nations who break the sanction!  No mercy!

Edited July 19, 2019 by betsy

[QuebecOverCanada]

This is much worse than I expected.

Two British tankers were kidnapped by terrorist Iran today.

 

[Argus]

I was thinking the American hawks were trying to push Trump into an open confrontation with Iran, but it's starting to look like Iran is actually spoiling for a fight themselves, so hey, give it to them.

[GostHacked]

38 minutes ago, Argus said:

I was thinking the American hawks were trying to push Trump into an open confrontation with Iran, but it's starting to look like Iran is actually spoiling for a fight themselves, so hey, give it to them.

It might be both. Let me know when Iran surrounds the USA with military bases and warships.

I don't think Trump ever had intentions of war. Then again, that kind of power speaks through the POTUS from the military brass. Trump is a puppet, like every POTUS before him. He'll do exactly what the military wants or they will get in another puppet.

[marcus]

For those who care about context, the story includes the UK confiscation of an Iranian ship, which was ordered by the US. Not to mention Trump pulling out of the nuclear deal.

[egghead]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:03 PM, GostHacked said:

It might be both. Let me know when Iran surrounds the USA with military bases and warships.

I don't think Trump ever had intentions of war. Then again, that kind of power speaks through the POTUS from the military brass. Trump is a puppet, like every POTUS before him. He'll do exactly what the military wants or they will get in another puppet.

That nuclear deal is a dumb deal anyway.

Trump thinks Middle East is not an USA business, but he finds out Middle East matters will affect US dollar value.

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, egghead said:

That nuclear deal is a dumb deal anyway.

Trump thinks Middle East is not an USA business, but he finds out Middle East matters will affect US dollar value.

The financial crisis of 2008 which was all done inside the USA affects their dollar value more than anything else on this planet. Banksters out right screwed over Americans and their life savings and in many cases screwed them right out of their own homes.

Who went to jail for that?

If the M.E. is  USA business, then the USA is also M.E. business.

[GostHacked]

17 hours ago, marcus said:

For those who care about context, the story includes the UK confiscation of an Iranian ship, which was ordered by the US. Not to mention Trump pulling out of the nuclear deal.

This is good to note.  And the fallout after Iran seized the tankers? None so far.  Bluff was called.

[egghead]

9 hours ago, GostHacked said:

The financial crisis of 2008 which was all done inside the USA affects their dollar value more than anything else on this planet. Banksters out right screwed over Americans and their life savings and in many cases screwed them right out of their own homes.

Who went to jail for that?

If the M.E. is  USA business, then the USA is also M.E. business.

Don't be stupid, if ME countries stop using US dollar as the medium Of exchange this mins,  US dollar will be worthless an hour later 

[GostHacked]

9 hours ago, egghead said:

Don't be stupid, if ME countries stop using US dollar as the medium Of exchange this mins,  US dollar will be worthless an hour later 

If the terrorist Saudis don't want to use American oil to power their terrorist machine to pound places like Syria and Yemen.. I welcome it.

There has been much push back on the petro dollar and many nations are now moving away from that creating a new oil market traded in a different currency.  The days of the petrodollar are numbered unless the USA goes for all out war on those other nations that want to switch.  When it was just Hussein, or Qaddafi. the USA had an easy time taking them out. Won't be the case with places like Iran, Russia, China .. and more.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:49 PM, Argus said:

I was thinking the American hawks were trying to push Trump into an open confrontation with Iran, but it's starting to look like Iran is actually spoiling for a fight themselves, so hey, give it to them.

They're not spoiling for a fight - I'm sure they've already wargamed the grim scenarios if shooting does start - but they are desperate to end the global sanctions that are crippling their economy and they have to make the US pay a price for imposing these by risking a war they know Trump does not want. 

[Argus]

3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

They're not spoiling for a fight - I'm sure they've already wargamed the grim scenarios if shooting does start - but they are desperate to end the global sanctions that are crippling their economy and they have to make the US pay a price for imposing these by risking a war they know Trump does not want. 

The sanctions are a product of their own actions, both their efforts at getting a nuclear bomb, and their sending of fighters, arms and money to Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Lebanon. If they want the sanctions to end let them reform their own behaviour.

[GostHacked]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

The sanctions are a product of their own actions, both their efforts at getting a nuclear bomb, and their sending of fighters, arms and money to Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Lebanon. If they want the sanctions to end let them reform their own behaviour.

9/11 was a product of USA supported terrorists.

[OftenWrong]

On 7/19/2019 at 5:03 PM, GostHacked said:

Trump is a puppet, like every POTUS before him. He'll do exactly what the military wants or they will get in another puppet.

They sure wanted to do an airstrike after that US drone got shut down, but Trump decided against it. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

The sanctions are a product of their own actions, both their efforts at getting a nuclear bomb, and their sending of fighters, arms and money to Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Lebanon. If they want the sanctions to end let them reform their own behaviour.

By any sensible standard, they are less to blame for the crisis in Yemen than KSA/USA and their support of co-religionists across the region mirrors that of the Saudis. Let KSA and the US look to their own delinquent behaviour there first. Getting involved propping up Assad was a mistake on multiple levels but he is the incumbent tyrant in that country, just like MBS or El Sisi who are supported by the Americans. Unlike the Saudis, they have not financed terrorists across the world - Iran actually assisted the fight against ISIS. The US also has some cheek demanding that other countries cease trading with Iran, the sort of hubris we saw with Cuba. While the Iranians are governed by a despotic theocracy, American behaviour has been alarmingly erratic here. Unilaterally dumping a deal signed by multiple nations which had nothing to do with Iran's policy in Iraq, Syria etc. devalues any subsequent undertaking by a US president and destabilizes the region. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland

[bush_cheney2004]

34 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

....The US also has some cheek demanding that other countries cease trading with Iran, the sort of hubris we saw with Cuba. While the Iranians are governed by a despotic theocracy, American behaviour has been alarmingly erratic here. Unilaterally dumping a deal signed by multiple nations which had nothing to do with Iran's policy in Iraq, Syria etc. devalues any subsequent undertaking by a US president and destabilizes the region. 

 

The agreement was a unilateral decision by the Obama administration with no vote in Congress.

Obama is long gone.....and yes...he "destabilized" the region.

[SpankyMcFarland]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The agreement was a unilateral decision by the Obama administration with no vote in Congress.

 

Yes, the problem being that if multi-party deals are rescinded like this then it becomes a waste of time to work with the Americans on such agreements in the future. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes, the problem being that if multi-party deals are rescinded like this then it becomes a waste of time to work with the Americans on such agreements in the future. 

 

If they want iron clad agreements...that's what ratified treaties are for.    Obama was not a king.

That's how it works....no special deals for Iran.

Europe is free to go it alone whenever it wants.

Edited July 24, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

They sure wanted to do an airstrike after that US drone got shut down, but Trump decided against it. 

Because Iran would have fought back. And if provoked, and they sure will, and no one is going to move through the Straight of Hormuz.

[GostHacked]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The agreement was a unilateral decision by the Obama administration with no vote in Congress.

Obama is long gone.....and yes...he "destabilized" the region.

No the destabilization was done under Bush and Cheney. As you well know.

[Argus]

13 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

By any sensible standard, they are less to blame for the crisis in Yemen than KSA/USA and their support of co-religionists across the region mirrors that of the Saudis. Let KSA and the US look to their own delinquent behaviour there first. Getting involved propping up Assad was a mistake on multiple levels but he is the incumbent tyrant in that country, just like MBS or El Sisi who are supported by the Americans. Unlike the Saudis, they have not financed terrorists across the world -

They've certainly financed, trained and equipped them in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, providing everything from anti-tank missiles to full bore surface to surface missiles. Where do you think Hamas and its affiliated terrorist groups gets all those missiles they throw at Israel anyway? Or Hezbollah for that matter?  The Iranians picked a fight with Israel decades ago and can't let go, constantly making aggressive statements about them and funding terrorists around the world who attack Israelis and Jews. You might not think they've done anything around the world but the Argentines would disagree.

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

They've certainly financed, trained and equipped them in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, providing everything from anti-tank missiles to full bore surface to surface missiles. Where do you think Hamas and its affiliated terrorist groups gets all those missiles they throw at Israel anyway? Or Hezbollah for that matter?  The Iranians picked a fight with Israel decades ago and can't let go, constantly making aggressive statements about them and funding terrorists around the world who attack Israelis and Jews. You might not think they've done anything around the world but the Argentines would disagree.

No mention of Yemen there which is progress. Most ME countries, including Israel of course, have set bombs off in other ME countries. That’s the nature of the region. Regarding incidents outside the region, Hezbollah’s bombing in Argentina occurred 25 years ago and it says a lot you have to back that far to find something like that in the Americas. The fact that the Iranians have not supported a similar effort in the last two decades in that continent suggests they may have learned something. Pressure on them now for it is kind of pointless. Remind me when the last Shia terrorist attack was on Canadian soil. The Sunnis are far more dangerous to civilians in Europe and North America than the Shia have been but the Saudis have never been held responsible for funding extremist mosques across the West. 

It’s reasonable to pressure Iran to change its policies on Syria and Lebanon, campaigns that are also harmful to Iran’s own ultimate interests and have cost way too much for that cash-strapped country. I would suggest that abruptly backing out of JCPOA (which addressed a different problem) and cutting off Iran’s main source of foreign income was not the way to go to achieve this goal. 

[Argus]

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

No mention of Yemen there which is progress

I haven't spent any time looking into what's going on in Yemen since I really don't care. It seems to me to be the Saudis and the Iranians fighting for prestige and influence in one of the poorest, most backward and unimportant regions on Earth. A pox on both of them.

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Most ME countries, including Israel of course, have set bombs off in other ME countries. That’s the nature of the region. Regarding incidents outside the region, Hezbollah’s bombing in Argentina occurred 25 years ago and it says a lot you have to back that far to find something like that in the Americas.

Again, that's just what came to mind. I haven't bothered to look at what IRAN, not Hezbollah, has been up to outside the middle east. The Iranian regime are scum. I don't need further evidence to support that belief.

And the Iranians haven't simply set the occasional bomb off. Talking like that sounds like excusing them in sending thousands of revolutionary guards to fight in other people's countries, not to mention sending hundreds of missiles to the terrorists around Israel. And their leadership regularly pronounces death and destruction on Israel.

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Sunnis are far more dangerous to civilians in Europe and North America than the Shia have been but the Saudis have never been held responsible for funding extremist mosques across the West. 

That's due to political cowardice and how much oil money they have. I agree with those who say the US should have bombed the hell out of the Saudis, not the Iraqis. The only reason I can think of why they don't is that the only likely replacements for the Saud family are even more fanatic and less controllable than they are.

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

It’s reasonable to pressure Iran to change its policies on Syria and Lebanon, campaigns that are also harmful to Iran’s own ultimate interests and have cost way too much for that cash-strapped country. I would suggest that abruptly backing out of JCPOA (which addressed a different problem) and cutting off Iran’s main source of foreign income was not the way to go to achieve this goal. 

What was? Nothing else seemed to be having any impact on their behaviour.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The country that really saved Assad’s hide was Russia, not Iran. Putin enabled him to terrorize his own country from the air. The Russians have yet to pay a serious price for that. 

Trump’s hesitation in bombing Iranian targets reflects the ambivalence of many of his supporters concerning yet another ME war. Beyond the loonie evangelical fringe, that prospect is none too inviting for America Firsters. 

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by SpankyMcFarland