How do we force immigrants to assimilate?

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The question here is not "What is Canadian", but "What is NOT Canadian, and therefore worthy of being evicted from Canada". 

Cultural Marxist pro Chinese Communist style totalitarians, mostly college academics.

War Measures Act, Section 33, deport them to Cuba,

[Machjo]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Cultural Marxist pro Chinese Communist style totalitarians, mostly college academics.

War Measures Act, Section 33, deport them to Cuba,

Er... I'm not aware that Canada has such an extradition agreement with Cuba.

[Dougie93]

Just now, Machjo said:

Er... I'm not aware that Canada has such an extradition agreement with Cuba.

Put them on the MV Asterix, sail them to the 12 mile limit off of Cuba, throw them overboard.

 

[dialamah]

6 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

nor were they asked what we could do to make our country more to their liking

This is just such ongoing bullchit.  Our country offers freedom and equality for *everyone*, not just first settlers or "old stock" Canadians.  If people come here and present a case for some kind of accommodation, our country gives them that right.  That is part of what makes Canada (and the States, for that matter) great.   Snowflakes crying foul because OMG a new Canadian is allowed to do something they've never seen before are the ones who don't understand (or accept) Canada.   And it's funny that, when asked, these people can't really describe any way in which Canada's culture has changed because "immigrants demanded that we change to make them happy" - other than to become ever-more progressive in terms of human rights and equality.   

 

[Machjo]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Put them on the MV Asterix, sail them to the 12 mile limit off of Cuba, throw them overboard.

 

Ah, are those your 'Canadian values?'

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, scribblet said:

We can't force them to assimilate but we should be more assertive about integration and living withing our laws and values e.g. equality for women as one issue

How about we use something like that Social Credit System China uses to assess and grade their population's politeness?

We could always program the AI to ignore pink people - who needs to worry about their creditworthiness?

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Ah, are those your 'Canadian values?'

My Canadian value is defending Canadians from a cabal of crazy communists taking over to run a PRC style totalitarian police state.

I'd be happy to chuck these commies out of a helicopter from a 1000 ft up, for squeamish Canadians I dial that back to chuck em overboard with a life raft off of Cuba.

[dialamah]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

Only 42% of Somali men who came here decades ago are employed. The rest live on welfare, and they get bigger cheques with every kid they have.

I couldn't find a cite to back that statement up, but however true it is, there are reasons for that have to do with people like you.

https://www.ryerson.ca/content/dam/diversity/reports/UARR_2015.pdf

 

Quote

Within Canada, Somalis essentially encountered three strikes against them; (i) being a newcomer to/refugee within Canada, (ii) being Muslim, and (iii) being Black (Reitsma, 2001). These new forms of identification among the Somali Canadian community are difficult to navigate at first for youths, adults, and elders alike. Upon their arrival in Canada, Somali immigrants immediately began to suffer from multiple forms of exclusion including, among other things, the labour market and housing; this is in part related to their lack of official citizenship documentation (Pegg, 2004). With many families forced to flee following the fall of the Somali government, they were unable to secure most of their official documents required by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC). However, it does appear that Somalis were targeted by CIC as they were one of only two groups to have a five-year waiting period imposed upon them before becoming eligible to apply for permanent residency (the other group being Afghans). While waiting for their landed immigrant status to be approved, Somali immigrants have a number of restrictions imposed upon them. Primary among them is that they are unauthorized to leave the country with a guarantee of re-entry. Moreover, they are unable to sponsor family members to come to Canada, and are only eligible for temporary work permits. They also remain ineligible for employment offered through Human Resources Development Canada

 

Quote

Somalis and other Muslims in Western societies endure intense Islamophobia — largely borne of ignorance and fueled by a socially constructed public discourse that tends to depict Muslims as extremists, fundamentalists, archaic, static, barbaric, irrational, unresponsive to change, and thus unwilling to assimilate

 

[Machjo]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

My Canadian value is defending Canadians from a cabal of crazy communists taking over to run a PRC style totalitarian police state.

I'd be happy to chuck these commies out of a helicopter from a 1000 ft up, for squeamish Canadians I dial that back to chuck em overboard with a life raft off of Cuba.

I don't appreciate the radical left either; but that doesn't mean that I want to kill them. Nor does it mean that I'm prepared to accept a far-right state either, which might be even worse.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Machjo said:

I don't appreciate the radical left either; but that doesn't mean that I want to kill them. Nor does it mean that I'm prepared to accept a far-right state either, which might be even worse.

No far right state, Pierre Trudeau of the Liberal Party of Canada imposed the War Measures Act and deported Canadians to Cuba.

If the Nazis try to take over, I'm willing to kill them for you too, give me the Queen's signature and I will close with and destroy.

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind, if you just sit back and let these Commies run amok, that will incite a Nazi backlash.

Then you will be caught in between, and that pocket will get smaller and smaller until it starts to crush you.

The Soldiers of the Crown are at your disposal to drive them back in both directions as necessary, but you have to give the order through the Commander-in-Chief.

Just saying, none of these kooks are going to stop coming at you,  until they run into a bayonet.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

And hey,  if Canadian civil society has simply become too bourgeois, too soft, too squeamish, too supine, to use force even to defend itself?

So be it, but then I'm gonna have to fight for the Americans, last line of defense, rally round the Declaration of Independence.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dougie93

[paxamericana]

Should of adopted the melting pot idea before that mosaic crap if you want people to assimilate. 

[Dougie93]

15 hours ago, dialamah said:

This is just such ongoing bullchit.  Our country offers freedom and equality for *everyone*, not just first settlers or "old stock" Canadians.  If people come here and present a case for some kind of accommodation, our country gives them that right.  That is part of what makes Canada (and the States, for that matter) great.   Snowflakes crying foul because OMG a new Canadian is allowed to do something they've never seen before are the ones who don't understand (or accept) Canada.   And it's funny that, when asked, these people can't really describe any way in which Canada's culture has changed because "immigrants demanded that we change to make them happy" - other than to become ever-more progressive in terms of human rights and equality.   

 

The root cause is that "Canada", which is simply the name of the Confederation, is a failed state.

It was never created for the purposes of freedom nor equality.

In 1867 the British imposed a shotgun marriage on their remaining American colonies for the purposes of;  keeping the French in, the Americans out and the Indians down.

The purpose of Confederation is fundamentally unjust, and as a result it has failed to launch.

Instead, it has simply become an adjunct American protectorate, run by a corrupt and incompetent banana republic government.

There is no national interest, it is only bound together by corruption and a Liberal Party of Canada made up fairy tale  which isn't real.

This incites a pathological insecurity,  it can't handle any pressure of any kind, whether that be economic or otherwise, even the slightest pressure incites Canada to recoil.

There isn't even that many immigrants coming here, but doesn't take many to incite panic, in a failed state which has no unified national interest.

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Should of adopted the melting pot idea before that mosaic crap if you want people to assimilate. 

Canadians were not a liberty to adopt anything, because Canadians didn't create this state, this state was created from London in the British Empire, "Canadian" wasn't even a thing at the time, Canada was Britain, the people here were British, and they did not even want a Confederation, it was imposed on them, because the British could no longer defend it from the US Grant and his million man Army of the Potomac.

[Dougie93]

Canada was in fact forced together, practically overnight, shotgun marriage imposed from London, in the panic caused by the Fenian Raids, which seemed to be the vanguard of a coming American invasion, by a juggernaut born of the American Civil War.

And this fear and loathing and insecurity, is all that Canada is about, hence the constant panicking over the Americans, and immigrants, and anything that might apply any sort of pressure to this inherently weak,  dysfunctional and unstable Confederation.

In this case the fear and loathing has all come together, because America is actually dumping immigrants into Canada, so the two panics are the same panic, American invasion by default.

It's the Fenian Raids all over again, except instead of Irish Papists, it's Haitians and Nigerians now.

ZOMG they are walking right across the border,  and not only are the Americans not stopping it, they are making it happen.

If Canadians actually knew the central narrative of their history, they might be able to address the fear and loathing and insecurity which is Canada.

But they don't know their history.   They don't understand their origins and motivations, their deeply ingrained historical memory.

This confusion simply feeds into the fear and loathing and insecurity,  everything just happens to Canadians are they are helpless to do anything about it.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dougie93

[Goddess]

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

20 hours ago, Argus said:

Only 42% of Somali men who came here decades ago are employed. The rest live on welfare, and they get bigger cheques with every kid they have.

I couldn't find a cite to back that statement up, there are reasons for that have to do with people like you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Canadians

Quote

According to the NHS, there are 28,475 Somalis in Canada aged 15 years and over that are eligible for the labour force. Of these individuals, 15,220 are in the labour force (12,025 employed and 3,195 unemployed), whereas 13,255 are not in the labour force. The labour force participation rate is 53.5%, with an employment rate of 42% and an unemployment rate of 21%. In terms of class of worker in the labour force, 12,355 are employees and 1,070 are self-employed. 

It was the first cite that came up.

While discrimination may be an issue for some, I highly doubt your claim that Somalis are soooooo discriminated against in Canada that they bear no responsibility for the low numbers and it's all Argus' fault.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019007-eng.htm

 

Stats Can does not identify discrimination from Argus as a significant factor, and I suspect they are correct in that.

 

Quote

 

Differences among the groups in observable human capital characteristics (notably educational attainment, age and knowledge of an official language), as well as in economic conditions, years in Canada and the program of entry to Canada, explained either none or very little of the much lower than average earnings of the refugee groups with the lowest earnings. Other unknown and unobserved factors accounted for the very low earnings. One possible explanation is that the education that these groups received in their home countries may have been of lower quality or have been perceived to be of lower quality by employers, thereby affecting the wages paid. The paper includes some evidence to support this notion. Other unobserved factors that may have contributed to the earnings differences among the groups could include:

• perceived or actual differences among refugee groups in source-country labour market experience
• cultural factors affecting labour market success
• discrimination
• the acquisition of official language skills in Canada
• the acquisition of occupational training in Canada
• the quality of Canadian work experience
• the support received from ethnic communities in Canada
• the willingness to move to find a good job.

Refugees’ economic outcomes are often compared with those of family-class immigrants—the group they most closely resemble. Immediately after entry, refugees from all countries earned less than family-class immigrants. However, the five refugee groups with the highest earnings (i.e., from the former Yugoslavia; Poland; Colombia; Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos; and El Salvador) displayed much more rapid earnings growth than did the family- and economic-class immigrants entering during the same period. After 15 years, they earned from 80% to 110% of what family-class immigrants did. The story was very different for refugees in the five lowest earnings groups (i.e., from Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and China). Even after 15 years in Canada, they earned from 50% to 70% of what family-class immigrants did. For these groups, observable differences in educational attainment, language ability, economic conditions and the other observed factors mentioned above accounted for very little of the earnings gap with family-class immigrants. Once again, unobserved and unknown factors played a major role.

 

Quote

 With some exceptions, employment rates after five years in Canada were substantial among refugees. Male refugees from 7 of the 13 countries had employment rates over 75% five years after entry. However, those from Iran and Somalia had very low employment rates. Female refugees from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia also displayed very low employment rates.

It could also be that misogynistic views on women also contribute to their reliance on social welfare.  I don't believe Argus has any control over that but I'm sure you can find a way to blame him if you try hard.

[Dougie93]

Canada has wide open borders and a bloated nanny welfare state which exists simply for handouts to sob story special interests.

Secure the border and constrain the government handouts, or accept that economic migrants will keep coming faster than you can deport them.

Otherwise you're just hand waving with all this ZOMG immigrants panic monkeying.

 

[dialamah]

11 minutes ago, Goddess said:

soooooo discriminated against in Canada that they bear no responsibility for the low numbers and it's all Argus' fault

People like Argus, who do things like this:   depict Muslims as extremists, fundamentalists, archaic, static, barbaric, irrational, unresponsive to change, and thus unwilling to assimilate.

[Dougie93]

To anybody actually on the right, you should embrace the inflow of immigrants, not only are they the only business class in Canada, but the left is bringing their own bloated nanny welfare state down in the process, the immigrants ain't swamping me, they don't bother me at all, the only thing they are applying pressure to, is the sad and failing central planning and associated entrenched interests.

[Dougie93]

Who even wants to save Canada's priggish snobby Victorian "cultural protectorate" anyways?

Natural born Canadians are the enemies of freedom and fun, we need the immigrants to overrun these Canadian police state busy bodies.

[Goddess]

27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

People like Argus, who do things like this:   depict Muslims as extremists, fundamentalists, archaic, static, barbaric, irrational, unresponsive to change, and thus unwilling to assimilate.

Ya, we get it - you hate Argus.  I just think there's more to it than your belief that Canadians are the most racist, bigoted people on the planet..  And Stats Can agrees with me.

[Machjo]

The problem is not immigration but social assistance. If we let them sink or swim, those that can't support themselves would soon be begging to be sent back home.

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

your belief that Canadians are the most racist, bigoted people on the planet..  

I think some people on this forum are bigots, some are racists, some are racist bigots.  I think they represent the minority of Canadians and I think its acceptable and even necessary to call those people out.  Pretty sure if you overheard someone on the street calling a woman down as an "extremists, fundamentalists, archaic, static, barbaric, irrational, unresponsive to change, and unwilling to assimilate" you'd defend that woman; you seem like the type who would.  Maybe you have; I know I have.  But some on this forum would not, and I believe those are the ones you so eagerly defend.

[Goddess]

6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I think some people on this forum are bigots, some are racists, some are racist bigots.  I think they represent the minority of Canadians and I think its acceptable and even necessary to call those people out.  Pretty sure if you overheard someone on the street calling a woman down as an "extremists, fundamentalists, archaic, static, barbaric, irrational, unresponsive to change, and unwilling to assimilate" you'd defend that woman; you seem like the type who would.  Maybe you have; I know I have.  But some on this forum would not, and I believe those are the ones you so eagerly defend.

Argus has never mentioned doing that - screaming at women in the street.  This is a discussion forum.  He discussed a report that most Canadians would like to see immigrants assimilate more.  He mentioned what Sweden does and that he agrees.  He is allowed to have an opinion, correct?  This is the right place to express that opinion, is it not?  What I am defending is his right to post a report and say he agrees with it.  He mentioned NOTHING about screaming and abusing women on the street.  Only you did.  So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not the Muslim-killer you insist he is.