Robert Greene Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 If we need to outsource, we should do more business with India. India is a hidden opportunity, and we can become rich on investments. There not communist, and there not Muslim. We could use them as Allies in Asia. We should also be doing more trade with South America. Colombians have cleaned themselves up, and would make good partners. There also catholic. Quote
egghead Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 4:13 AM, Mike south said: Here's my theory as to why the Liberal government is not doing anything to get these tariffs lifted. Liberal government wants Canadians to be anti-trump ..... I think you are right, but the move is not to influence American voters come 2020. It is for JT. JT will earn browine point when he huffs and puffs about trump. Quote
egghead Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 12:42 PM, Argus said: The arrogance with which Chinese diplomats are now behaving shows they have little respect and no fear of what Canada might do to them. Trudeau has spent his entire term sucking up to China and almost desperately trying to give him some kind of trade deal. They have responded by treating him - and Canada - with the contempt they reserve for weaklings. A Chinese diplomat in Montreal tried to shut down an event at Concordia University featuring an exiled Muslim minority leader this week, says an organizer, marking China’s third recent attempt to influence activities on Canadian campuses. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/chinese-diplomat-accused-of-trying-to-shut-down-montreal-event-in-third-incident-of-alleged-campus-interference If JT and his minions had read the international news headlines more often, this would not have happened. They don't understand the Red China. May be watching Green Book more will help Quote
egghead Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 10:24 AM, Zeitgeist said: Canada has imposed the same tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum that the US has, so there is no reason for the US to impose tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum producers, one of which is US Steel! Not China only, it is tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports once they exceed average volumes. Quote
cannuck Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 8:18 PM, Owly said: Seems pretty easy for you ti ignore the state of the economy your namesake handed to Obama and how he improved it over his two terms. Trump is riding along on the crest of that wave while he drives the debt through the roof. Uhhhh.....Obummer cost the US taxpayer more in his two terms than every President, War, depression, New Deal, etc. in the history of the USA combined. The economy Bush handed to Obama was not of Presidential doing, but the result of Goldman Sucks owning the Uniparty, lock stock and barrel. It was a lack of regulation and enforcement starting WAAAYYY back (but coming to its height with Klinton when waved the green flag by axing Glass-Steagall). You might have noticed that Obama's "Dream Team" introduced even before his inauguration to solve the banking "crisis" (that's code word for bailing out "too big to fail" and rewarding Wall Street for its treachery to the tune of TRILLION$$) was exactly the same people (featuring Goldman's agents) as was little Bushie. The state of the US economy today is not the result so much of either presidency, but the massive amount of stimulus debt from BOTH sides of the Uniparty - that is threatening to crash the whole damn thing from debt. Quote
Argus Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 10:13 PM, bush_cheney2004 said: This is patently false, easily demonstrated by significant jobs growth in U.S. manufacturing...far better than in Canada: People who think pretty colors tells you anything make poor arguments. Patently false? The US economy has been growing for years. There is no particular upsurge under Trump other than a brief surge when you pumped all that borrowed tax cut money into the economy (gone now). Most of you Trumpists prefer to compare how things have gone in the last few years to the totality of how things were under for 8 years under Obama, including the early, disastrous years which followed Bush almost letting the world economy collapse out of profound ignorance, not to the year before Trump took over. And btw, what happened to that great economic growth? It's now supposed to be just 2.6% But that, of course, was not what I was talking about. I was talking about the basic economic issue that when you make steel more expensive then those who manufacture goods with steel find fewer customers willing to buy it. Are you going to try to deny this basic economic maxim exists? The fact is the whole argument over manufacturing was bullshit from the start. American manufacturing was at record highs before that idiot Trump took over. As for the tariffs, they're not creating any jobs. They're not even slowing Chinese imports. The Chinese dollar has gone down because of them, and so it's actually cheaper to import goods from China and more expensive for the US to export there! And US companies in China might be considering moving due to tariffs but they're not moving back to the U.S. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/28/manufacturers-say-trump-tariffs-to-bring-higher-prices-not-jobs-survey.html As for my original point, of how stupid the steel taxes were in terms of cost benefit. After Donald Trump announced tariffs on steel and aluminum from the US’s closest allies last week, economists warned that they could result in thousands of US job losses. The latest numbers from The Trade Partnership, a DC-based economics research firm, suggests that the impact will be even worse than originally estimated. Some 400,000 jobs will be lost, with 16 losses for every job created by the tariffs, the group said today. That’s more than three times the number of job losses it expected earlier. https://qz.com/1297697/trumps-steel-tariffs-will-cost-the-us-400000-jobs-says-economists-now/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
cannuck Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 While Canada is definitely a big dog at the resource table, we are still a microcosm in the overall trade between the two largest economies on the planet. While it may feel good to someone posting from his Mother's basement in Toronto, Montreal or Ottawa (yes, that is a direct reference to the PMO), to the people who actually have serious money invested in resources (petro, mining, agriculture) and the millions who depend on those sectors for their income this is dead serious business. Canola farmers are taking it up the hoop for the moronic child's crowd of politically correct, gender balanced cabinet and their total ignorance of just about anything outside of their virtue-signalling world - and scarcely anyone in Canada gives a flying purple frick. Mr. Dressup and his minions have no business playing international politics in a game they really are too inept to understand. We simply can't afford to the mouse between these two elephants, and have learn our place to stay on the window ledge until they have tired of the current posturing. Quote
Owly Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, cannuck said: While Canada is definitely a big dog at the resource table, we are still a microcosm in the overall trade between the two largest economies on the planet. While it may feel good to someone posting from his Mother's basement in Toronto, Montreal or Ottawa (yes, that is a direct reference to the PMO), to the people who actually have serious money invested in resources (petro, mining, agriculture) and the millions who depend on those sectors for their income this is dead serious business. Canola farmers are taking it up the hoop for the moronic child's crowd of politically correct, gender balanced cabinet and their total ignorance of just about anything outside of their virtue-signalling world - and scarcely anyone in Canada gives a flying purple frick. Mr. Dressup and his minions have no business playing international politics in a game they really are too inept to understand. We simply can't afford to the mouse between these two elephants, and have learn our place to stay on the window ledge until they have tired of the current posturing. It seems you must be ignorant of the fact that the US/Canada have had a deportation treaty in place for years. Quote
cannuck Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 and to avoid having to get involved it would only have taken a discreet whisper in her ear to GTF out. One can leave on your corporate airplane without going anywhere near customs and immigration. Quote
Argus Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, cannuck said: While Canada is definitely a big dog at the resource table, we are still a microcosm in the overall trade between the two largest economies on the planet. While it may feel good to someone posting from his Mother's basement in Toronto, Montreal or Ottawa (yes, that is a direct reference to the PMO), to the people who actually have serious money invested in resources (petro, mining, agriculture) and the millions who depend on those sectors for their income this is dead serious business. Canola farmers are taking it up the hoop for the moronic child's crowd of politically correct, gender balanced cabinet and their total ignorance of just about anything outside of their virtue-signalling world - and scarcely anyone in Canada gives a flying purple frick. Mr. Dressup and his minions have no business playing international politics in a game they really are too inept to understand. We simply can't afford to the mouse between these two elephants, and have learn our place to stay on the window ledge until they have tired of the current posturing. Do you deny that the more economically dependent a country is on China the more vulnerable it is to blackmail and extortion? China is not a country like others. It has no independent businesses. Every business we trade with is a government operation one way or another, and none can be trusted. The Chinese do not trade with anyone unless they see it as being in their interest. Since they trade with us to the tune of over $100 billion they clearly see it as in their interest. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Argus said: ....But that, of course, was not what I was talking about. I was talking about the basic economic issue that when you make steel more expensive then those who manufacture goods with steel find fewer customers willing to buy it. Are you going to try to deny this basic economic maxim exists? The fact is the whole argument over manufacturing was bullshit from the start. American manufacturing was at record highs before that idiot Trump took over. False again...clearly more manufacturing jobs have been created per month under Trump than Obama (I provided the data above). Canada has been losing auto sector jobs for the past 15 years...and will continue to lose more to China, Mexico, and the USA, because it is the least productive and most expensive due to labour unions, energy costs, regulation, and lack of investment. Tariffs are short term pain to change the status quo on steel and Al dumping and transshipments, and that includes Canada. Edited March 31, 2019 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Owly Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: False again...clearly more manufacturing jobs have been created per month under Trump than Obama (I provided the data above). Canada has been losing auto sector jobs for the past 15 years...and will continue to lose more to China, Mexico, and the USA, because it is the least productive and most expensive due to labour unions, energy costs, regulation, and lack of investment. Job creation during Trump's first two years is simply a continuation of what was already occuring under Obama, with only some slight reductions. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Owly said: Job creation during Trump's first two years is simply a continuation of what was already occuring under Obama, with only some slight reductions. False....and either way....Canada would still be China's bitch. Nice try.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Owly Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: False....and either way....Canada would still be China's bitch. Nice try.... Actually true, and when we get around to proceeding with teh extradition, as you've asked for, teh US will continue to be China's bitch. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/10/30/two-charts-show-trumps-job-gains-are-just-a-continuation-from-obamas-presidency/#690c03d1af3f Obama’s eight years: 2009: Negative 422,000 per month Lost 5.1 million jobs (teeth of the recession) 2010: 88,000 per month or 1.05 million for the year 2011: 174,000 per month or 2.09 million 2012: 179,000 per month or 2.14 million 2013: 192,000 per month or 2.3 million 2014: 250,000 per month or 3 million 2015: 226,000 per month or 2.7 million 2016: 187,000 per month or 2.24 million Trump’s through September: 2017: 182,000 per month or 2.19 million Through September 2018: 208,000 per month or 2.5 million run rate Edited March 31, 2019 by Owly Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 11 minutes ago, Owly said: Actually true, and when we get around to proceeding with teh extradition, as you've asked for, teh US will continue to be China's bitch. Off topic Omni...as usual. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted March 31, 2019 Author Report Posted March 31, 2019 29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: False again...clearly more manufacturing jobs have been created per month under Trump than Obama (I provided the data above). All you provided was a chart showing a consistent upward trend under both Obama and Trump. 29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Tariffs are short term pain to change the status quo on steel and Al dumping and transshipments, and that includes Canada. If intelligently placed, but that requires an intelligent administration; which you lack. Your trade deficit with China is only growing wider with these idiotic tariffs. Do tell me why the Chinese should care about them again. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 31, 2019 Report Posted March 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Argus said: If intelligently placed, but that requires an intelligent administration; which you lack. Your trade deficit with China is only growing wider with these idiotic tariffs. Do tell me why the Chinese should care about them again. China is Trump's main trade target...Canada is just road kill along the way. China has already agreed to buy more U.S. commodities (e.g. soybeans) and manufactured goods....while China has put the squeeze on canola exports from Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: China is Trump's main trade target...Canada is just road kill along the way. China has already agreed to buy more U.S. commodities (e.g. soybeans) and manufactured goods....while China has put the squeeze on canola exports from Canada. We probably should have an all out trade war with China as they stand to lose much more than we do. We import far more from them than we export to them. Though we didn’t get all of the counter tariffs against Canada that were imposed on the US following Trump’s introduction of tariffs against China, now China is again playing political games with Canada by going after our canola farmers. The problems with the trade imbalance were there before, as the excerpts from this old article below show. The situation has only worsened. We should impose tariffs on China because they are unilaterally acting against Canada to make some point about how they can abuse their power and push around smaller powers. How imperialist. “Canada’s trade deficit with China is widening amid a slowing of raw materials exports to China, while Canadians continue to import $50 billion a year of Chinese products. According to Industry Canada, the 2012 trade deficit with China was $31.7 billion, four times what the deficit was a decade ago. Background While China exports manufactured goods, like electrical machinery, furniture and footwear, to Canada, it imports mainly raw materials. Currently the top Canadian exports to China by value are wood pulp, oil seeds and grains, ores, mineral fuels and oil. The Chinese market for many Canadian-made manufactured goods is being blocked by a high tariff wall, which makes the cost of these products prohibitive for Chinese consumers. For example, MO851, a Montreal-based maker of luxury leather goods, has opened a boutique in Beijing, hoping to cash in on the huge Chinese consumer market with a taste for luxury goods. A bag that retails for $465 in Montreal, costs 90 per cent more in Beijing due to tariffs, taxes and luxury taxes.[1] On the other side, Chinese products face no such tariffs as when they are imported to Canada, they are using similar production products and materials and have much lower labour costs.” from BC Chamber of Commerce Edited April 1, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: We probably should have an all out trade war with China as they stand to lose much more than we do. We import far more from them than we export to them. Though we didn’t get all of the counter tariffs against Canada that were imposed on the US following Trump’s introduction of tariffs against China, now China is again playing political games with Canada by going after our canola farmers. The problems with the trade imbalance were there before, as the excerpts from the 2017 article below show. We should impose tariffs on China because they are unilaterally acting against Canada to make some point about how they can abuse their power and push around smaller powers. How imperialist. Canada should do whatever is best for Canadian interests. However, it is quite apparent that the current ruling government and leadership is incapable of competently navigating such a path, having already damaged possible trade leverage with other Pacific rim nations. China correctly perceives Ottawa as weak and compromised right now, inviting trade attacks from China, which has a demonstrated history of going after weaker nations as proxies for direct confrontation with the United States. I was somewhat surprised to learn that Canada is more dependent on export trade than is China, complicating matters further. CETA will not/cannot ramp up enough offsetting trade to counter current circumstances with China / USA. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: China is Trump's main trade target...Canada is just road kill along the way. China has already agreed to buy more U.S. commodities (e.g. soybeans) and manufactured goods....while China has put the squeeze on canola exports from Canada. How's that trade deficit going? You think buying some soybeans is gonna do anything? They'll just sell you more electronics while they duplicate Boeing's aircraft designs. Then they'll start selling Boeing Zufong pasenger jets around the world at a third the price. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Zeitgeist Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada should do whatever is best for Canadian interests. However, it is quite apparent that the current ruling government and leadership is incapable of competently navigating such a path, having already damaged possible trade leverage with other Pacific rim nations. China correctly perceives Ottawa as weak and compromised right now, inviting trade attacks from China, which has a demonstrated history of going after weaker nations as proxies for direct confrontation with the United States. I was somewhat surprised to learn that Canada is more dependent on export trade than is China, complicating matters further. CETA will not/cannot ramp up enough offsetting trade to counter current circumstances with China / USA. Canada is far less dependent on export trade to China than China is dependent on export trade to Canada. Nevertheless, our canola farmers are hurting just as the US soy farmers were hurt by Chinese tariffs. While China-Canada relations were much better before Trump’s trade war, Trump has succeeded in bringing the might is right Mercantile approach to trade back in style worldwide. Not good but now political reality. He has said he won’t raise tariffs from 10% to 25% on China if China removes tariffs on US farmers, tariffs that wouldn’t have been there if Trump hadn’t imposed tariffs in the first place. Nevertheless, China has backed down. I hope that Scheer is as hard on China as Harper was, assuming the Conservatives win. The Chinese are used to strong oppressive regimes and don’t seem to respect fair trade and rule of law. It’s true that China is disrespecting Trudeau who naively warmed to and expected better of China. He hoped, like many Canadians, that China could be a healthy counter to US might is right imperialism. China has its own special brand of imperialism, however. Canada has to negotiate all this bullshit, as always. Maybe China will behave and accept our canola again. Maybe a trade war can be averted. Maybe not. Still so grateful to be in Canada though. People want to be here and we will benefit from a growing population, as Canada becomes more of a market for its own goods. It’s already happening as our economy grows despite a string of trade deficits. The goal for us has to be diversifying export markets and becoming more self sufficient. CETA, TPP, and other trade agreements will help. We have a ton of expertise and resources that a growing population helps us extract and turn into manufactured goods, but we need more people in the north. I agree on the whole that Trudeau has to be much tougher or he needs to go. He should be demanding the US remove steel and aluminum tariffs before ratification of USMCA. He should be kicking seditious MP’s out of caucus, introducing legislation to streamline pipeline construction, implementing DPA’s, and setting more conditions on immigration. Gas prices are going up. Welcome to carbon taxes. I support fighting climate change, but without the US on board we are facing competitive headwinds. Yup, Trudeau and the Liberals will probably be gone. Edited April 1, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, Argus said: How's that trade deficit going? You think buying some soybeans is gonna do anything? They'll just sell you more electronics while they duplicate Boeing's aircraft designs. Then they'll start selling Boeing Zufong pasenger jets around the world at a third the price. Boeing has now delivered more than 2,000 airliners to China, with many more on order. The Chinese developed Comac C919 is just now getting type qualified. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Posted April 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Boeing has now delivered more than 2,000 airliners to China, with many more on order. The Chinese developed Comac C919 is just now getting type qualified. And I'm sure the Chinese have the full blueprints for every one of those aircraft, and will wind up selling them abroad and taking Boeing's customers. In much the same way they simply hack your computers to get the blueprints for your missiles, fighters and warships and then build their own version for a tenth the cost. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 45 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Canada is far less dependent on export trade to China than China is dependent on export trade to Canada. Nevertheless, our canola farmers are hurting just as the US soy farmers were hurt by Chinese tariffs. While China-Canada relations were much better before Trump’s trade war, Trump has succeeded in bringing the might is right Mercantile approach to trade back in style worldwide. Not good but now political reality. He has said he won’t raise tariffs from 10% to 25% on China if China removes tariffs on US farmers, tariffs that wouldn’t have been there if Trump hadn’t imposed tariffs in the first place. Nevertheless, China has backed down. Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do....upset the status quo. Canada cannot and would not have ever been able to lead on such policies, and in fact has begged the United States to spend more blood and treasure to preserve the "post WW2" order. Trump was elected to change that dynamic. Quote I hope that Scheer is as hard on China as Harper was, assuming the Conservatives win. The Chinese are used to strong oppressive regimes and don’t seem to respect fair trade and rule of law. It’s true that China is disrespecting Trudeau who naively warmed to and expected better of China. He hoped, like many Canadians, that China could be a healthy counter to US might is right imperialism. China has its own special brand of imperialism, however. Canada has to negotiate all this bullshit, as always. Maybe China will behave and accept our canola again. Maybe a trade war can be averted. Maybe not. Unfortunately, Canada's current ruling government is ill equipped and incompetent when faced with such challenges. China and the USA are the heavyweights in such matters, and Canada better figure out how to survive the conflicts, starting with better leadership and less virtue signaling BS for domestic political consumption. Quote Still so grateful to be in Canada though. People want to be here and we will benefit from a growing population, as Canada becomes more of a market for its own goods. It’s already happening as our economy grows despite a string of trade deficits. The goal for us has to be diversifying export markets and becoming more self sufficient. CETA, TPP, and other trade agreements will help. We have a ton of expertise and resources that a growing population helps us extract and turn into manufactured goods, but we need more people in the north. Except when you are in your Florida property, right ? Canada created it's own circumstances by voluntarily becoming so dependent on the U.S export market and capital investment. Some lessons are only learned the hard way. Next time, listen to the Maude Barlow types. Quote I agree on the whole that Trudeau has to be much tougher or he needs to go. He should be demanding the US remove steel and aluminum tariffs before ratification of USMCA. He should be kicking seditious MP’s out of caucus, introducing legislation to streamline pipeline construction, implementing DPA’s, and setting more conditions on immigration. Gas prices are going up. Welcome to carbon taxes. I support fighting climate change, but without the US on board we are facing competitive headwinds. Yup, Trudeau and the Liberals will probably be gone. Trudeau is incapable of changing his ways from a virtue signaling fake feminist to hard nosed pragmatist. He is just a small fish in a pond with much bigger and more aggressive fish. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 1, 2019 Report Posted April 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Argus said: And I'm sure the Chinese have the full blueprints for every one of those aircraft, and will wind up selling them abroad and taking Boeing's customers. In much the same way they simply hack your computers to get the blueprints for your missiles, fighters and warships and then build their own version for a tenth the cost. Look, I went to China in the late 1990's to give them manufacturing technology (lamination, interstitial materials, flex circuits, sputtering, vapour deposition, etc.) for a piece of their market. The math is quite simple....either cooperate for access to what will/has become the biggest market in the world, or be shut out and lose the technology to IP theft anyway. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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