The Death of the Federal Liberal Party

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Even Liberal Party of Canada UN Peacekeeping, that just gets innocent women and children raped and killed, they think Canada is there to protect them, so they come to the UN flag seeking protection, and all that does is put them in a kill zone, while the Canadians are ordered to stand idly by and spectate.

We learned from Dallaire and others about the weak rules of engagement and enforcement of the UN, which is also why retaining NATO matters.  America alone doesn’t have the diplomatic currency to act unilaterally in the majority of disputes. Yes we know they dominate with hard power, but going it alone for that reason often creates as many problems as it solves.  The Brits and French have right sized forces when combined with allies.  As Canada’s population grows, we should scale up to a similar level of strength.

The UN should have more teeth.  Peacekeeping is sometimes peacemaking.  Combat should always be on the table.  

[Dougie93]

NATO for anything other than fighting the Russians, just makes things worse, then you just end up bombing the women and children yourself instead of watching a co belligerent kill them.

NATO mission creep is bad juju.

[Dougie93]

In terms of unilateral power?  With F-35 Panther at her disposal, America doesn't need any help, any military on earth to include the Russians and Chinese is not going to be able to put up much of a fight, once their air force is shot down.

The F-22 would literally be left with not much to do, since it would be switching to bomb trucks by the end of the first week.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

NATO for anything other than fighting the Russians, just makes things worse, then you just end up bombing the women and children yourself instead of watching a co belligerent kill them.

NATO mission creep is bad juju.

Well, NATO is the liberal democratic fighting force of the west.  Should it have incorporated Russia in the mid-90’s?  Maybe that would’ve contained Russian imperial ambitions.  All such blocks stem nationalist adventurism.  The main and original reason for creating the EU was containing Germany.  The UN attempts this on a world scale but does so weakly, with the permanent Security Council vetoes and exceptionalism over too many important initiatives.  However, the UN must remain a loose union that devolves as much power to the local level as possible.  Same goes for Brussels, Washington and Ottawa.  Strong central governments often beget a form of totalitarian central planning.  However, there are many aspects of government that can’t be addressed at the local level and some of the biggest concerns going forward require international rules and initiatives.  

[Dougie93]

NATO is neither liberal nor democratic, NATO is unilateral killing machine entirely under the direction of one man.

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In terms of unilateral power?  With F-35 Panther at her disposal, America doesn't need any help, any military on earth to include the Russians and Chinese is not going to be able to put up much of a fight, once their air force is shot down.

The F-22 would literally be left with not much to do, since it would be switching to bomb trucks by the end of the first week.

I like the F-35.  

[Dougie93]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

I like the F-35.  

Thank you for your service.  At Lockheed Martin, we never forget who we are working for.

[bush_cheney2004]

Even during the best of times, Canada struggles with and bungles defence procurements.

The Liberal Party is in no position to make bold moves now...it is an election year.

[Dougie93]

That being said, the Panther is the most lethal airborne killing machine devised to date, and should not be used for any sort of  Liberal "Peacekeeping", the Panther is for deterrence, then war in the event deterrence fails.

At the theater level, Panther will prevent most wars from even starting, merely by its presence, none the less, strategic bombing is totally ineffective for wars amongst the people.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Even during the best of times, Canada struggles with and bungles defence procurements.

The Liberal Party is in no position to make bold moves now...it is an election year.

Their move was to punt the Next Generation Fighter into the 2030's, ensuring that Canada will either select F-35, which will be the only viable option in production at that point, or Canada will go the New Zealand route and jettison tactical fighter capability altogether.

My prediction is New Zealand,  because that is what Canada is, it's not a Frozen Australia, it's a Giant New Zealand.

This is how it went in New Zealand, when it came time to replace their Vietnam era fighters, they basically decided it wasn't worth the cost.

Canada will just leave NORAD to the Americans, American units based in Canada once again, then Canada can keep pork of the bases without having an air force.

Raptors from Alaska and Goose Bay covers the entire Canadian ADIZ anyways, and it's not like the CF-18s can actually keep up with them now.

The Raptor has to drive in second gear just to allow the Canadians to participate.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Eventually, Liberal Canada will become Giant Iceland, wherein Canada simply cedes all military missions to America, and only maintains a lightly armed constabulary, RCMP on steroids.

Pretty sure the Pentagon would just make is easy again for Canadians to enlist in the States, and that is how Canadians will go military adventuring, back to being the Shock Troops of the Empire.

30,000 Canadians served in Vietnam, that will be what the future looks like too.

By this point, Canadians will be so fully immersed into the American Infomation Age Empire, Canada having its own military will seem weird to them, something from the olden days, that British Canada back there in the past, which will look archaic to them, might as well be the War of 1812.

We're 80% of the way there now, and its accelerating, we're not talking centuries here, more like twenty five years from now. 

The CF is gonna make it to 2045?  No, it's already in its death throes, even as just a Boutique Army.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Eventually, Liberal Canada will become Giant Iceland, wherein Canada simply cedes all military missions to America, and only maintains a lightly armed constabulary, RCMP on steroids.

Pretty sure the Pentagon would just make is easy again for Canadians to enlist in the States, and that is how Canadians will go military adventuring, back to being the Shock Troops of the Empire.

30,000 Canadians served in Vietnam, that will be what the future looks like too.

By this point, Canadians will be so fully immersed into the American Infomation Age Empire, Canada having its own military will seem weird to them, something from the olden days, that British Canada back there in the past, which will look archaic to them, might as well be the War of 1812.

We're 80% of the way there now, and its accelerating, we're not talking centuries here, more like twenty five years from now. 

The CF is gonna make it to 2045?  No, it's already in its death throes, even as just a Boutique Army.

Do you like that idea?  You seem to celebrate it.  Sounds like Canada as a Disney theme park. 

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Do you like that idea?  You seem to celebrate it.  Sounds like Canada as a Disney theme park. 

Doesn't matter what I like or dislike, it's an analysis if the actual trajectory Canada is on rather than some made up propaganda from the government.

In terms of my likes, the future is upon me, there's nothing I can do about it, when Canada sort of had an army, I served in it, then Jean Chretien put the knife in and killed it, then I just met my wife and she wasn't going to live on an army base in the middle of nowhere, but luckily my contract was about up by then anyways.

[Dougie93]

To be clear tho, the lifestyle in the Forces was plush by my standards, best paid, best fed, best housed, best trained military in the world.  

Her Majesty has been berry berry goo to me, I have no complaints as to my compensation for signing the contract of unlimited liability to the Crown.

But understand that this is also a contributing factor to the loss of operational capability, the money goes to the overhead of the personnel and infrastructure, but at the expense of the sharp end therein.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Dougie93

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,

From this point onward, thread drift will be met with temporary suspension. 

If you want to veer off base, post in the Clubs sub-section down below.  

 

On 2/17/2019 at 6:10 PM, Yzermandius19 said:

I was on topic,

No. Your posts were off-topic derailment.