Will Raybould cross the floor?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, mowich said:

You may very well be right but until .........or if, she is ever allowed to tell her side of this unholy mess, we will never know what actually happened.  I have very little faith that this so-called Justice Committee will resolve the matter.  IMO, only an open and public inquiry where all those involved are allowed to speak openly and truthfully will the truth behind this scandal be revealed. 

Please, no more expensive nonsensical partisan inquiries.  Rule of law is of course an impossible construct because we are all biased, but you get more rule of law and a less politicized legal system in Canada than the US or just about any country.  Give SNC the damn fines and stop shutting down business activity on the basis of ridiculous standards.  Yes standards are important and penalties must be applied.  That’s the end of it.  

As for Wilson-Raybould, don’t worry, there will be quite a sob story about how she was “pressured”.   Trudeau will be run out of town on the feminist wagon he road in on.  The Conservatives will be the beneficiaries at the polls and hopefully Scheer will appoint ministers he can trust.  Rarely happens.  

Edited February 20, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Please, no more expensive nonsensical partisan inquiries.  Rule of law is of course an impossible construct because we are all biased, but you get more rule of law and a less politicized legal system in Canada than the US or just about any country.

 

Sorry, but that dodge won't work in this instance.   The Trudeau government tried to use the "rule of law" for its own political agenda, only to be trapped by its own actions and rhetoric.    Your concern seems to be only for the well being of SNC-Lavalin projects and employment, not the "rule of law".

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but that dodge won't work in this instance.   The Trudeau government tried to use the "rule of law" for its own political agenda, only to be trapped by its own actions and rhetoric.    Your concern seems to be only for the well being of SNC-Lavalin projects and employment, not the "rule of law".

Apply rule of law and a reasonable consequence and be done with the shenanigans.  I agree that Trudeau only loses in this situation.  Wilson-Raybould will bury Trudeau, and maybe soon, the whole country.  She will get what she wants.  Can’t blame her for seeing what she can get away with.  

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Apply rule of law and a reasonable consequence and be done with the shenanigans.  I agree that Trudeau only loses in this situation.  Wilson-Raybould will bury Trudeau, and maybe soon, the whole country.  She will get what she wants.  Can’t blame her for seeing what she can get away with.  

 

She wanted to prosecute the crooked bastards (including the 10 year ban)....but you don't approve ?

 

Quote

Federal prosecutors had already rejected a settlement with SNC-Lavalin Group Inc. nearly two weeks before Prime Minister Justin Trudeau spoke with then-attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould about the matter last fall.

Court documents obtained by The Globe and Mail show that Kathleen Roussel, director of public prosecutions, had informed SNC-Lavalin on Sept. 4 that she intended to proceed with a prosecution on bribery and fraud charges against the Montreal-based engineering giant stemming from its business dealings in Libya.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-trudeau-reviewed-snc-lavalin-options-with-wilson-raybould-after/

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

She wanted to prosecute the crooked bastards (including the 10 year ban)....but you don't approve ?

 

 

 

No I don’t agree with the 10 year ban.  Get real.  It’s an unfair advantage for American and British companies that benefit from DPA’s.  Should 52000 workers lose their jobs because of the corrupt actions of a few?  This is another example of how it’s become increasingly difficult for Canadian companies to do business.  We don’t promote our own.  We throw them under the bus.  

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No I don’t agree with the 10 year ban.  Get real.  It’s an unfair advantage for American and British companies that benefit from DPA’s.  Should 52000 workers lose their jobs because of the corrupt actions of a few?  This is another example of how it’s become increasingly difficult for Canadian companies to do business.  We don’t promote our own.  We throw them under the bus.  

 

That's the price to be paid for touting "Canadian values" and the "rule of law" for international relations (e.g. China).    Isn't that "superior" legal system feeling worth it ?

Live by the F-word...die by the F-word....feminist agenda.

[PIK]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No I don’t agree with the 10 year ban.  Get real.  It’s an unfair advantage for American and British companies that benefit from DPA’s.  Should 52000 workers lose their jobs because of the corrupt actions of a few?  This is another example of how it’s become increasingly difficult for Canadian companies to do business.  We don’t promote our own.  We throw them under the bus.  

To bad. Because they certainly don't care about the 120,000 oil workers that lost thier job.

[PIK]

2 hours ago, mowich said:

Also as a Conservative, the last person I want is someone whose known beliefs are in lock-step with the leftist ideologies of the liberal party.  She is so steeped in that BS I doubt she could ever change her ways.  Best she stays right where she is and quietly sinks into oblivion with the rest of her lib buddies.

Now what has happen I totally agree with you. She is as corrupt as the rest of them.

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, PIK said:

To bad. Because they certainly don't care about the 120,000 oil workers that lost thier job.

The smartest thing that could come out of this for the Yellow Vests is to unite with the SNC workers against the anti-pipeline movement in Quebec and push for Energy East.  Find a common cause...

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's the price to be paid for touting "Canadian values" and the "rule of law" for international relations (e.g. China).    Isn't that "superior" legal system feeling worth it ?

Live by the F-word...die by the F-word....feminist agenda.

No, Canadian values continue to be "rule of law", not draconian consequences, which is a Chinese and "3 strikes you're out" American thing.  Heavy financial penalties for SNC would allow the company to make restitution without throwing 52000 employees out of work who had nothing to do with the bribery.  The "feminist agenda" is Trudeau's alone to wear.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, Canadian values continue to be "rule of law", not draconian consequences, which is a Chinese and "3 strikes you're out" American thing.  Heavy financial penalties for SNC would allow the company to make restitution without throwing 52000 employees out of work who had nothing to do with the bribery.  The "feminist agenda" is Trudeau's alone to wear.

 

Guess who helped to put the Liberal Party led by Justin Trudeau (and Butts) back in power ?

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Guess who helped to put the Liberal Party led by Justin Trudeau (and Butts) back in power ?

If you’re saying that SNC threw money at the Liberals, don’t worry, they threw money at the Conservatives as well.  Whoever has the best chance of winning power gets the biggest donations from the private sector. At least there are limits to campaign financing.  SNC isn’t unique in that regard, nor are the Liberals.  Want to talk US campaign contributions?  It’s unbelievable. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If you’re saying that SNC threw money at the Liberals, don’t worry, they threw money at the Conservatives as well.  Whoever has the best chance of winning power gets the biggest donations from the private sector. At least there are limits to campaign financing.  SNC isn’t unique in that regard, nor are the Liberals.  Want to talk US campaign contributions?  It’s unbelievable. 

 

Nice try, but this has nothing to do with the U.S.

But it is quite delicious to watch from the U.S. after years of smug Trudeau virtue signaling.

...now it is time for the "investigation" !

[Rue]

The fact they fired Butt Boy  means the caucus sided with Judge Jody on this one and Trudeau had to save face on an inside revolt particularly when he has posed himself as a champion of indigenous peoples and women both of which she is.

Its all about politics. The SNC discussion was all about arranging a plea as SNC is on very shaky grounds and the imprisonment of an executive or ban on fed contracts with SNC could tip it into bankruptcy causing thousands of lost jobs in Quebec.

This federal government is committed to SNC, Bombardier and Quebec Hydro at all costs to get Quebec votes. Pretty much the same applies for any government running Canada. No one should be surprised by political interference discussions. I am not so sure this is the only government that has done this. The Liberals though went so far getting elected criticizing Tories for doing this. They also said they would never pass omnibus bills but passed one changing the law to sneak in the right to make a deal with SNC hoping no one would notice.

This is why this government is particularly nasty. it claims it would balance the books by 2019 and never run a deficit after that date then does an abrupt change in November of 2018 announcing hugge deficits to run into 2024. It ran claiming it was above board with ethics and there is your PM travelling on vacation with someone lobbying the government for donations.

This is a PM who said no one was above the law and pays a terrorist $10 million while claiming he has no money for terrorists. This is someone who then rewards illegal entrants to Canada with the rights of refugee hearings and work permits signaling all legitimate immigrants they are fools for following the law.

This is a government  void of any ethical compass and should be tossed out on its slimy butt.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Rue

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No I don’t agree with the 10 year ban.  Get real.  It’s an unfair advantage for American and British companies that benefit from DPA’s.  Should 52000 workers lose their jobs because of the corrupt actions of a few?  This is another example of how it’s become increasingly difficult for Canadian companies to do business.  We don’t promote our own.  We throw them under the bus.  

SNC L does not have 52,000 employees. It is screwing with the numbers. They subcontract almost all work, and those subcontractors will just work for someone else.

[Zeitgeist]

29 minutes ago, Argus said:

SNC L does not have 52,000 employees. It is screwing with the numbers. They subcontract almost all work, and those subcontractors will just work for someone else.

Just remember that whatever rules are laid out for SNC apply to all overseas engineering firms doing similar work.  Without DPA's Canadian firms are at a disadvantage.  I can tell that posters on here want to make this all about Trudeau's Libs pandering to Quebec, but last I checked Quebec is part of Canada and SNC is as Canadian as it is Quebecois.  You think Scheer wouldn't have his lips glued to these corporate asses?  Perhaps he wouldn't at least take on a Wilson-Raybould who makes Trudeau's activism look like Nixon on Quaaludes.   

[Dougie93]

The whole economic nationalism for jobs angle is bogus, every time a corporation my wife has worked for has restructured, she gets hired by their competitors.  If you are worth your salt, you will get the job, if you're not, that's not Canada's problem.

Unless of course, you are going to concede, that Canada is in fact a nanny welfare fake jobs gulag, where the only thing propping it up, is corruption.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Dougie93

[Rue]

cWithout going off on a tangent and with do respect Dougie Ninety Three unemployed people in Canada are more likely to commit crimes which becomes Canada's problem.

http://www.johnhoward.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/facts-24-crime-and-unemployment-whats-the-link-march-2009.pdf

For that matter any organized state has a component of what you call nanny welfare if for no other reason to prevent revolutions and the masses burning your house down when it sees you eating something they don't have.

The reality is unless you live in a bubble your government has social obligations and so collects taxes for police, fire, ambulance, hospital services.

If you can find an ideal state where one does not need any state structure at all do let me know.

Now back to the actual issue of this thread, SNC whether you like it or not, like any large multi-national dictates the policies of government. Its how our economy works. The only other working model is the Chinese one where the state has a monopoly.

Either way, whether its the state or the multi-nationals calling the shots, people like Trudeau are pissantes. They come and go in history with no impact. They are farts in the wind. Their reign is brief, their smell even briefer.

Trudeau's lustre was bound to wear off and the reality of politics sink in. He has had this naïve belief his honeymoon period  would reign forever. He is a narcissist. He can not imagine anyone not liking him or disagreeing with him. When that happens he has a tantrum. Its very simple psychology, Mama and Papa never said no. Papa was never at home and Mama was a manic depressive who he felt responsible for protecting from her mood swings, thus his fabricated sense of understanding and caring for women and his feminine mannerisms to make him less threatening to his mother who he thought mood affected because of her fear of  men.

Its not hard to profile him and his fall from grace  as all martyrs do, or his inability to deal with strong women and his need to surround himself with gay effeminate cabinet Ministers or weak women.

Its all part and  parcel of the fragile, confused, broken ego.

He's afraid of  his own body let alone penis Freud would say.

Now the next move will be bizarre. The only way he could put this to bed is to put Jody back on the throne which she wants and he can't do unless he wishes to commit political suicide and anoint his successor.  That is possible as people with his upbringing when not idolized usually move on. I would predict he could very well quit in the next year being replaced by her at a convention and turning to some entertainment job like Ben Mulroney his doppleganger who has the same issues but transferred them into accepting his role as a fluff piece of air headed nothingness.

It would not surprise me at all if Justin turns to being a t.v. show journalist. It would allow him to maintain his public persona without any need to justify his opinions to get elected.

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Rue

[Dougie93]

I reject the notion categorically, that somehow unemployment is a license to commit crime, and moreover that it is a national imperative to engage in corruption as a solution therein.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I reject the notion categorically, that somehow unemployment is a license to commit crime, and moreover that it is a national imperative to engage in corruption as a solution therein.

More Puritanism.  Just hope that Wilson-Raybould doesn’t eventually take the levers of power.  All of the posters on here who fear the eco warriors in BC will run to the hills.  She means business.  You will pay big bucks and find yourself apologizing for not paying more.  Pipelines?  Forget them.  The Canadian budget will be reallocated to treaty settlements.  It’ll be Bolshevik collectivization and redistribution of wealth, neatly protected by the Charter.  Just hope Bernier doesn’t divide the right.  If the Conservatives don’t win the next election and Trudeau is usurped for the leadership, look out.  You guys will be apoplectic. 

[Dougie93]

I refuse to defend and uphold a country which defends and upholds corruption for the purposes of a nanny socialist fake jobs gulag.  Canada is dead to me.

I was willing to take lives and lay down my own for this country when I was young and naive, now, I wouldn't cross the street to piss on it if it was on fire.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I refuse to defend and uphold a country which defends and upholds corruption for the purposes of a nanny socialist fake jobs gulag.  Canada is dead to me.

I was willing to take lives and lay down my own for this country when I was young and naive, now, I wouldn't cross the street to piss on it if it was on fire.

Move to the States.  DPA’s are typical there, but it appears you want higher standards for Canada, so that other countries can eat our workers’ lunches.  

[Rue]

14 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I reject the notion categorically, that somehow unemployment is a license to commit crime, and moreover that it is a national imperative to engage in corruption as a solution therein.

You change the topic yet again. So I must be careful but I did not state being unemployed is an excuse or license to commit a crime just the obvious... that there is a correlation between unemployment and crime and there is clear evidence people who work are less likely to commit crime and so that when any government right or left in Canada creates policies it is well aware of that and thus importance isplaced on employment and what happens in  economically depressed communities. Captain Obvious.

Unemployed people are also more like to get sick and cost society medical bills  so whether you like it or not we live in a world where we are not just islands but inter-connected in many ways. This country with its size and weather alone required a level of centralized cooperation for people to have survived and built a nation. That's an apolitical observation.

Now back to this topic, all politicians influence peddle but I think in this case its the way Trudeau has flip flopped on the issue, passed the Omnibus bill to allow favourable treatment for SNC  and now has admitted making a statement to Judge Jody two weeks after the fact that necessarily implicates him in an influence discussion not to mention his Butt boy running away with his pants on fire.

It is truly  stupid for Trudeau not to have admitted what he did. He passed a friggin bill to allow him to do what he did why deny it? Why because it was an Omnibus bill something he condemned the Tories for using to sneak things past the public and then Justin did the same thing to legalize influence peddling. So much for Ethics. Trudeau is doing all the things he shrilled in Parliament against,

This is why the Patron Saint of Liberals, Sir Omni is silent on the Omnibus bill and  Viscount Squid is in the Bahamas on vacation with the Aga Khan and avoiding calls.

Now me, I have not been able to go on vacation but if I did I would go with Doug Frod and Jody just for fun to an all you can eat in Florida just to see the shock of horror of the restaurant owner and then we could all float in the water after and make our way on the currents to my favourite country Tonga which sorry to say also has a government.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Rue

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Move to the States.  DPA’s are typical there, but it appears you want higher standards for Canada, so that other countries can eat our workers’ lunches.  

Yep, corruption is as vital and necessary to our economy as carbon and attempting to do anything about it will only harm our economy.  If we don't accommodate corruption other countries will.  We're in a race to the bottom that we can't afford to lose.

We can meet global corruption reduction goals by demanding higher levels of virtue from consumers in the economy but going after producers will only devastate our economy. 

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Move to the States. 

I don't have to.  Canada literally requires nothing of me, other than to pay my taxes and obey the law, there's no requirement whatsoever to have fealty to Canada in order to live in Canada, by rendered judgement of the Supreme Court of Canada. 

I might decamp at some point, but right now my wife wants to live near her aging parents.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Dougie93