Should Canada suspend relations with China?

[Dougie93]

13 minutes ago, Argus said:

Bullshit. You like to postulate these nonsensical overreactions on the part of everyone to justify your defeatism. If you were a soldier and were ever attacked it seems, from your postings here, the first thing you'd have done was surrender.

In terms of capitulation on the battlefield, that has to be an organized surrender, so the only formation I ever commanded which I could lawfully surrender was a rifle section/recce det.

So if I am on patrol leading my detachment and we become surrounded and over matched in every vector?   Then yes, I would organize a capitulation, which is what the Royal Canadian Regiment battle school instructed me to do in that situation, because you only charge into a forlorn hope at the threshold of ultimate defeat, and recce det being taken prisoner does not reach the threshold, and so I'm not getting my troops killed to no purpose.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

In terms of capitulation on the battlefield, that has to be an organized surrender, so the only formation I ever commanded which I could lawfully surrender was a rifle section/recce det.

So if I am on patrol leading my detachment and we become surrounded and over matched in every vector?   Then yes, I would organize a capitulation,

Well based on your postings here it wouldn't take very damn much for you to do so. "Look boys, I know there's only four of them, but behind them is a massive nation with mighty and omnipotent powers that has computers and nukes! We better surrender right away before they use them!"

 

[Dougie93]

Again, its a question of mission command, what is the commanders intent?  Is my Commander-in-Chief want to see her Canadian Confederation come to harm by way of pointlessly picking a fight with a Hegemon it cannot and never will compete with, outside the protection of her UKUSSA security state which defends and upholds her Crown in North America?

I simply think not.  /shrugs

[Yzermandius19]

@Argus

You really think Canada can make China lose face without China retaliating? Because if Canada starts trading blows with China, Canada isn't winning that, no way in hell, Canada is pillow-fisted and China knows it.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

@Argus

You really think Canada can make China lose face without China retaliating? Because if Canada gets into escalation ladder with China, Canada isn't winning that, no way in hell.

China has a limited set of options for retaliating. What it's already done has harmed them more than it has us by a considerable margin. Its only likely option is cutting back on our imports, but we can do that tit for tat, and they sell a helluva lot more to us than we do to them. With the Americans already slapping tariffs on them do they really want us to do the same, and maybe cause others to join in?

This nonsense has already shattered the thin veneer of respectability the Chinese had built up and revealed they have grown not the least from the rabid 1960s fanatics we remember from Mao's time. All on the behalf of a woman who is, if convicted, is most likely to be given a fine.

[Dougie93]

Canada is really of only three strategic values at this juncture, it is a tethered tax jurisdiction on a location on earth which cannot be taken by force of arms other than American, which has special access to the market of said Hegemon, and then there is the Team Canada men's ice hockey team and the Toronto Maple Leafs NHL franchise.

And that's about it.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

China has a limited set of options for retaliating. What it's already done has harmed them more than it has us by a considerable margin. Its only likely option is cutting back on our imports, but we can do that tit for tat, and they sell a helluva lot more to us than we do to them. With the Americans already slapping tariffs on them do they really want us to do the same, and maybe cause others to join in?

This nonsense has already shattered the thin veneer of respectability the Chinese had built up and revealed they have grown not the least from the rabid 1960s fanatics we remember from Mao's time. All on the behalf of a woman who is, if convicted, is most likely to be given a fine.

Canada has a limited set of options for escalating tit for tat with China. The world needs China more than they need Canada, we ain't going to win a trade war with them, if the world is given an ultimatum, Canada or China? They are choosing China, no contest.

You are only analyzing one side of the coin through a confirmation bias filter, you want Canada to have the high ground on this, but they don't, wishful thinking.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada has a limited set of options for escalating tit for tat with China. The world needs China more than they need Canada, we ain't going to win a trade war with them, if the world is given an ultimatum, Canada or China? They are choosing China, no contest.

You are only analyzing one side of the coin through a confirmation bias filter, you want Canada to have the high ground on this, but they don't, wishful thinking.

Funny how they say China would never use naked force when in fact is using naked force right now.   I can certainly see them messing with an HMCS next time the RCN goes freedom of navigation through the China Seas, not enough to incite a war, but plenty enough to give Canadian Confederation a what for upside the head.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

Globalists love China.

[Dougie93]

Well, Globalist is the only way to go, because Westphalian sovereignty itself has already decamped to the world wide web, because everybody is everywhere all at once now, your lamd borders are simply quaint at this juncture. 

That's actually the other strategic value of Canada and perhaps the most important one, in that Canada is the Post National State, the state which does not demand any allegiance from you other than that you obey the laws and use Canada as a tethered tax jurisdiction.

[GostHacked]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Well, Globalist is the only way to go, because Westphalian sovereignty itself has already decamped to the world wide web, because everybody is everywhere all at once now, your lamd borders are simply quaint at this juncture. 

That's actually the other strategic value of Canada and perhaps the most important one, in that Canada is the Post National State, the state which does not demand any allegiance from you other than that you obey the laws and use Canada as a tethered tax jurisdiction.

SO all this complaining about China is useless since it is entities like the UN that has helped to perpetuate China to what it has become.

[Dougie93]

The entity which has perpetuated China is the Anglo-American Empire of Liberty, by flooding them with US dollars, the UN has no money but what the Americans give to them, because the UN is an American project, but as the Americans really don't use it for much anymore, the UN is just a debating club.

[Dougie93]

And there's nothing to be done about it now, because it was market forces what made it and it cannot be undone, because they have trillions of US dollars now, and so for instance could buy Canada  for all intents and purposes with just the cash they have lying around.

If not for UKUSSA of course, which will depose the Canadian government if it tries to sell Canada to China.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Because of course Canada doesn't own Canada, Queen Elizabeth II is the property holder, and UKUSSA is the army which QE II recruited in the Second World War to defend her Crown, and we have  done so ever since, GSTQ

Edited January 16, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

And there's nothing to be done about it now, because it was market forces what made it and it cannot be undone, because they have trillions of US dollars now, and so for instance could buy Canada  for all intents and purposes with just the cash they have lying around.

If not for UKUSSA of course, which will depose the Canadian government if it tries to sell Canada to China.

Market forces?? Like outsourcing to China for cheap labour which lead to a gutting of manufacturing in North America?

[Dougie93]

The fall of the Iron and Bamboo Curtains opening the other half of the world up to the Anglo-American Empire of Liberty and associated Free Market, which is free, and so operated by market forces alone, to include doing business with a couple billion new customers, and which cannot be controlled other than by designating those customers as sworn enemies, by formal declaration of war under the Hague Convention.

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind, we were not trapping the Communists behind the aforementioned walls, those were their walls to trap their people in to prevent them from doing business with us.

As classical liberals, we do not assert the Russian nor Chinese people to be our enemies, only their despotic regimes, anybody who could escape over the walls from those regimes we would do business with, and when they tore their walls down, we were free to business with them all.

[Dougie93]

And this is ultimately how we are going to free them all, but its not going to happen overnight, multi generational project ongoing and in progress, setbacks notwithstanding.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada has a limited set of options for escalating tit for tat with China. The world needs China more than they need Canada, we ain't going to win a trade war with them, if the world is given an ultimatum, Canada or China? They are choosing China, no contest.

You are only analyzing one side of the coin through a confirmation bias filter, you want Canada to have the high ground on this, but they don't, wishful thinking.

Au contraire.  China is NOT what the world needs.  You need more Canada. I guess you can pick which society you prefer. The US is becoming more arbitrary under Trump.  China is a shit show. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Because of course Canada doesn't own Canada, Queen Elizabeth II is the property holder, and UKUSSA is the army which QE II recruited in the Second World War to defend her Crown, and we have  done so ever since, GSTQ

No she does not own any of Canada.  Disinformation. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No she does not own any of Canada.  Disinformation. 

 

Yes she does....the sovereign is the personification of Canada...by definition.

[Dougie93]

45 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes she does....the sovereign is the personification of Canada...by definition.

Correct.   Her person, is literally the state. 

Altho, that state is actually the House of Windsor, not "Canada". 

"Canada" is  Confederation, which was simply an agreement, similar to NAFTA, or NATO, which was never intended to be its own country separate from an Empire.

[Dougie93]

This agreement coming about only because of accident of history when James Madison failed to take the Canada's for the American Republic as the Crown was expecting him to be able to do and hedging for that, but a British General recruited a small army and made a agreement with an Indian Hegemonic leader, resulting in the Grand River Mohawks being at the Heights of Queenston, and after the General was killed in the opening volley, said Mohawks came to the rescue, inciting the much larger American force to flee, many jumping to their deaths upon the rocks below, because they had a deeply ingrained fear of being taken by natives to be roasted at the stake and skinned alive.

So then Britain was stuck with it.  

The solution was a NATO/NAFTA style compact between Dominions, so Britain could get back to just running the fun part of the Empire in India and Far East, rather than this frozen hardship posting here.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Well based on your postings here it wouldn't take very damn much for you to do so. "Look boys, I know there's only four of them, but behind them is a massive nation with mighty and omnipotent powers that has computers and nukes! We better surrender right away before they use them!"

You don't seem to grasp the fundamentals of being a soldier of the crown.

First off, a soldier of the crown is a mercenary for all intents and purposes, the only democratic part is said soldier is free to decide which crown he chooses to defend and uphold. Otherwise known as taking the Queen's Schilling.

Second, said soldier is then part of a chain of command to which he reports.   Said chain of command will direct his actions by what are called "orders"

There are standing orders and there are operational orders, in any operational order the chain of command could direct you to fight to the last, but that is extremely rare.

Otherwise a professional solider operates by mission command, which is to follow the commander's stated intent taking the intiative as necessary.

Canada is not a People's Republic, I am not some zealot who fights for dolts who don't even have a real country and do not know nor understand the central narrative of their own history.

The sovereign I choose to defend and uphold is simply the British Crown at Buckingham Palace in defence of British Parliamentary Supremacy.

All that is well above the level of Canada's Confederation which I am not bound to by any oath nor allegiance, other than as a tethered tax jurisdiction and a hockey team.

I was in command of what I was in command of, and I was  decorated and thanked for my service by the Minister of Defence and Chief of the Defence Staff

If you would like to enlist in HM Canadian Armed Forces that is your option and when they put you in command of something then you will be able to run it how you like.

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

19 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada has a limited set of options for escalating tit for tat with China. The world needs China more than they need Canada, we ain't going to win a trade war with them, if the world is given an ultimatum, Canada or China? They are choosing China, no contest.

No, they won't. The world has no need of China. All China produces is cheap consumer and electronic goods, which can be made almost anywhere. A lot of developing countries now have the educational and disciplined population to produce the same goods as China at a lower cost. The salaries for Mexicans are far lower than for Chinese workers, and Mexico can ship goods north a lot easier than China can ship them across the Pacific. China has no friends in the world and no allies. No one LIKES China, because the Chinese government are incredibly crude, and favour bribery and bullying over in their relations with other nations. 

Investment in China might be good for individual companies but of little economic use to the countries in which those companies are based. The bottom line on their quarterly reports might show strong sales in China for a variety of world conglomerates, but most of those goods are made in China by Chinese workers because China's government keeps a tight reign on imports of all but raw materials.

Quote

You are only analyzing one side of the coin through a confirmation bias filter, you want Canada to have the high ground on this, but they don't, wishful thinking.

Canada doesn't have the high ground? Canada is a democracy with a naviely progressive government. China is a brutal dictatorship run by ruthless, murderous criminals. Its attacks on Canada through arresting Canadian citizens are because China does not operate under the rule of law, while Canada does. To suggest that Canada doesn't have the high ground is so blindingly idiotic that one would have to question the location and political identification of the individual writing such a thing.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Argus