It's official: Ontario is completely broke

[eyeball]

Whatever else Doug Ford does or doesn't accomplish should pale beside his apparent determination to get the government off people's backs and especially the manner by which he is executing this determination.  Hopefully his approach to other far more weighty matters is as direct and principled.

[cannuck]

On 10/1/2018 at 6:29 PM, eyeball said:

Whatever else Doug Ford does or doesn't accomplish should pale beside his apparent determination to get the government off people's backs and especially the manner by which he is executing this determination.  Hopefully his approach to other far more weighty matters is as direct and principled.

What I HOPE Mr. Ford can learn that a bureaucrat's argument is that he/she can do more or less of what they do with more or less money.  Reality is - as Eric Nelsen found to his ultimate political demise - the correct question is why are we paying you or anyone else to do what you are dong?  A great number of things governments do are nothing but meddling in business or social engineering.  Let someone who wants that done do it with their own money.

I still think the great equalizer is not allowing ANY long term debt without referendum or plebiscite.  In that manner, politicians plans to pass their electioneering costs on to my/our grandchildren are scotched and they become accountable during their term for their actions (or inaction).

Edited October 6, 2018 by cannuck

[eyeball]

8 hours ago, cannuck said:

What I HOPE Mr. Ford can learn that a bureaucrat's argument is that he/she can do more or less of what they do with more or less money. 

You could rewrite this but I'm guessing you're more concerned about your wallet than anything else.

Quote

Reality is - as Eric Nelsen found to his ultimate political demise - the correct question is why are we paying you or anyone else to do what you are dong?  A great number of things governments do are nothing but meddling in business or social engineering.  Let someone who wants that done do it with their own money.

Put your money where your mouth is?  How about funding our offshore military adventures with war bonds instead of taxes?

Quote

I still think the great equalizer is not allowing ANY long term debt without referendum or plebiscite.  In that manner, politicians plans to pass their electioneering costs on to my/our grandchildren are scotched and they become accountable during their term for their actions (or inaction).

I'd go even farther and have Canadians vote for legislation produced by citizen assemblies that are drafted like juries.   All that said I'm quite certain the simplest solution to virtually every problem and issue people have with governance (as opposed to politics) could be corrected by outlawing in-camera lobbying. That one single change would represent the greatest tectonic shift in the history of human governance bar none.  No need to tear up the constitution, get rid of the Queen or the SCC, no need to break-up Canada,  or any of a dozen other grand sweeping things people propose.  Just outlaw in-camera lobbying. That's it.

Edited October 7, 2018 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, cannuck said:

What I HOPE Mr. Ford can learn that a bureaucrat's argument is that he/she can do more or less of what they do with more or less money.

This one wins inscrutable sentence of the week award.  

Quote

 Just outlaw in-camera lobbying. That's it.

I think that's a good first step.  i'm pretty sure the contracting firms and builders have been bribing Liberals and Conservatives alike.  How hard can it be ?

[cannuck]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

You could rewrite this but I'm guessing you're more concerned about your wallet than anything else.

Put your money where your mouth is?  How about funding our offshore military adventures with war bonds instead of taxes?

I am concerned about my grandchildren's wallet - and yours.

I am only going to pay for something if I have direct control.  "My" control at the moment is that of taxation and spending through our very broken system of governance.   I suspect in spite of our polar opposite political philosophies, you and I would arrive at very similar solutions to moving forward.

[Michael Hardner]

57 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1. I am concerned about my grandchildren's wallet - and yours.

2. I am only going to pay for something if I have direct control.  "My" control at the moment is that of taxation and spending through our very broken system of governance.   I suspect in spite of our polar opposite political philosophies, you and I would arrive at very similar solutions to moving forward.

1.  You really shouldn't be.  Their physical needs - housing, food and so on - will almost certainly be met.  It's their higher-order needs like belonging and self-actualization that are at risk, mostly because they will have to work all of their hours to keep going.  Deficits are the gap we, as an aggregate "public", approve between expenditure and taxes.

2.  I don't get this.  You have almost no direct control over your taxation levels.

[cannuck]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  You really shouldn't be.  Their physical needs - housing, food and so on - will almost certainly be met.  It's their higher-order needs like belonging and self-actualization that are at risk, mostly because they will have to work all of their hours to keep going.  Deficits are the gap we, as an aggregate "public", approve between expenditure and taxes.

2.  I don't get this.  You have almost no direct control over your taxation levels.

1.  The aggregate public has zero sense of future.  they will vote for any idiot who promises them anything 

2.  I have very little control over my taxation levels with government as we have it in Canada.  I control much of my tax burden by doing business in other countries where to be in business does not make you an enemy of the state (or statists, as it were).

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1.  The aggregate public has zero sense of future.  they will vote for any idiot who promises them anything 

2.  I have very little control over my taxation levels with government as we have it in Canada.  I control much of my tax burden by doing business in other countries where to be in business does not make you an enemy of the state (or statists, as it were).

1. Ok, well then you have a bigger problem than voting for a "tax and spend" politician and a "cut cut cut" politician.  You are asking to either get rid of democracy, or reshape it, and what constitutes the "public".  I also hope that happens.

2. Yes, so you're a conservative globalist it seems.  Some people think you don't exist.

[cannuck]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, well then you have a bigger problem than voting for a "tax and spend" politician and a "cut cut cut" politician.  You are asking to either get rid of democracy, or reshape it, and what constitutes the "public".  I also hope that happens.

2. Yes, so you're a conservative globalist it seems.  Some people think you don't exist.

1.  I am a big fan of direct democracy, to the extent that I believe partisan political parties should not even exist.

2.   Oh, we're out there and in significant numbers.  What used to cost a fortune worth of hundred dollar a call telephone links and thousands of hard-to-come-by dollars of international flights and hotels can be done today with almost free digital links and the occasional cheap flight to do face-to-face stuff.  On top of that, borders are more open now than they have ever been - thanks to interdependence of economies due to trade.

[Michael Hardner]

21 minutes ago, cannuck said:

1.  I am a big fan of direct democracy, to the extent that I believe partisan political parties should not even exist.

2.   Oh, we're out there and in significant numbers.  What used to cost a fortune worth of hundred dollar a call telephone links and thousands of hard-to-come-by dollars of international flights and hotels can be done today with almost free digital links and the occasional cheap flight to do face-to-face stuff.  On top of that, borders are more open now than they have ever been - thanks to interdependence of economies due to trade.

1. If you are distrustful of the public, then I should point out direct democracy is replete with problems, the classic being that people will vote for more services and for lower costs but will not be equipped to vote on a solution to both things.  Ostensibly, the bureaucratic class is supposed to sort that out.

2. Good to hear that there's a conservative challenge to populism also.

[taxme]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:54 PM, Michael Hardner said:

More practical nonsense from you.  Do you think Doug is going to pay himself nothing ?  The notorious Ford crime family didn't get rich by being fair and prudent...

Do you think that any politician is going to work as a politician for dick all? Would you?

Just about all politicians can be considered nothing more than a bunch of cheats, thieves and liars. They are pretty much all involved in constantly committing crimes against the wasting of taxpayers' tax dollars. Ford has nothing on some of the politicians that have been in politics in the past or in the present. It's politicians that have pretty much taught and turned many Canadians into criminals. It would appear as though trying to be fair and prudent is for fools only.

[Michael Hardner]

That's what I was responding to the original point.  Go back and read it.

[taxme]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:06 AM, cannuck said:

1.  The aggregate public has zero sense of future.  they will vote for any idiot who promises them anything 

2.  I have very little control over my taxation levels with government as we have it in Canada.  I control much of my tax burden by doing business in other countries where to be in business does not make you an enemy of the state (or statists, as it were).

Isn't socialism wonderful?  Canadians have more government on their backs than a dog has hair on it's body. Government "IS" the bloody problem and never the solution. The GST could be eliminated tomorrow if we had politicians who knew how to handle our tax dollars in a frugal and proper manner. The GST was implemented just so our spend crazy politicians could spend more tax dollars on their socialist and communist programs and agendas and nothing more.

It does appear as though the leftist governments that we keep voting for and getting stuck with do hate people who are in business and even the working stiff. With all the tens of thousands of rules and regulations and taxes being applied on just about everything we do or buy it's no wonder the cost of living is so high and Canadians are in thousands of dollars in debt.

But people like you and me are considered radicals ourselves when we tell it like it is. It would appear as though the Truth scares the hell out of most people.  Telling it like it is seems to be a problem with most Canadians. They cannot handle it. They need their daily dose of lies and bull shit every day from their dear leaders to help keep them going. But hey.

[taxme]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 11:09 AM, Michael Hardner said:

That's what I was responding to the original point.  Go back and read it.

Most of the time I can never figure out as to what the hell  you are replying too or about. I always get confused by your responses. But hey.