bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: How foolish. You won't even acknowledge a trade fact, that no country buys as many U.S. exports as Canada, a democratic ally that has the world's second largest oil reserves. Our export supply is extremely diverse, and in fact, we could also become a major oil exporter approaching the level of Saudi Arabia. 75% of Canadian exports go to a single nation....which also happens to be a very strong ally of Saudi Arabia. Why ? (I already know the answer.) Quote I know China and other markets are very interested in our oil and have invested in the oil sands. Also, you're not answering a perfectly sensible question: Why would you continue to remain energy reliant on a country that is in no way an ally of yours, except before the cameras, and that has sought the U.S.'s destruction? As long as you continue this dance with the devil, your country's democratic values will be undermined as you turn a blind eye to human rights abuses, undemocratic behavior, and the funneling of oil money (from countries like yours) to anti-American terrorist groups? This is one more reason the U.S. is moving further from democratic values. Because economics trumps virtue, "democratic principles" don't mean a damn thing if the world's hydrocarbon based economy collapses. Saudi oil is not just about Canada or the United States. Canadian "values" are meaningless and irrelevant to world markets, as Justin Trudeau found out quickly in Asia. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: 75% of Canadian exports go to a single nation....which also happens to be a very strong ally of Saudi Arabia. Why ? (I already know the answer.) Because economics trumps virtue, "democratic principles" don't mean a damn thing if the world's hydrocarbon based economy collapses. Saudi oil is not just about Canada or the United States. Canadian "values" are meaningless and irrelevant to world markets, as Justin Trudeau found out quickly in Asia. The "hydrocarbon based economy" will continue to do just fine whether you buy your oil from Canada or the Saudis. There's no guarantee that "democratic principles" will do just fine if you continue to let the Saudis hold you hostage with oil supply. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Zeitgeist said: The "hydrocarbon based economy" will continue to do just fine whether you buy your oil from Canada or the Saudis. There's no guarantee that "democratic principles" will do just fine if you continue to let the Saudis hold you hostage with oil supply. I don't think you understand the global importance of Saudi Arabia to the world's economy. The world (especially Asia) needs Saudi oil exports...world consumption exceeds 80,000,000 bpd. This is why the Saudis matter more than...Canada (which also imports Saudi oil)....why the Saudis have such leverage....far more than Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I don't think you understand the global importance of Saudi Arabia to the world's economy. The world (especially Asia) needs Saudi oil exports...world consumption exceeds 80,000,000 bpd. This is why the Saudis matter more than...Canada (which also imports Saudi oil)....why the Saudis have such leverage....far more than Canada. But don't you think this should change? At least a reduction in imports from the Saudis would help keep them in line. America has more leverage if it imports less (no?) Saudi oil. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: But don't you think this should change? At least a reduction in imports from the Saudis would help keep them in line. America has more leverage if it imports less (no?) Saudi oil. No...I am not so naive when it comes to the world's hydrocarbon economy. Don't worry about American leverage...let mighty Canada lead the way by cutting off all oil/bitumen exports to Saudi Arabia's biggest ally...the United States. ...but that is not going to happen...for the very same reasons. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No...I am not so naive when it comes to the world's hydrocarbon economy. Don't worry about American leverage...let mighty Canada lead the way by cutting off all oil/bitumen exports to Saudi Arabia's biggest ally...the United States. ...but that is not going to happen...for the very same reasons. For someone supposedly so hawkish, you're very naïve on Saudi Arabia. It's that kind of denial that makes 911-type attacks possible. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: For someone supposedly so hawkish, you're very naïve on Saudi Arabia. It's that kind of denial that makes 911-type attacks possible. ...or terrorist attacks on the USA from Canada. Just another day as a world superpower. How does that make you feel.....Saudi Arabia being more important than Canada for oil exports ? Care to guess how many Canadians are working right now in Saudi Arabia on oil services contracts ? Edited October 23, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ...or terrorist attacks on the USA from Canada. Just another day as a world superpower. How does that make you feel.....Saudi Arabia being more important than Canada for oil exports ? Care to guess how many Canadians are working right now in Saudi Arabia on oil services contracts ? Oh please. What terrorist attacks from Canada? Do you mean that one foiled attempt to transport some kind of explosive device? That's an absurd comparison. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Zeitgeist said: Oh please. What terrorist attacks from Canada? Do you mean that one foiled attempt to transport some kind of explosive device? That's an absurd comparison. No it's not...there have been several terrorist attacks from Canada...so logically Canada should be held to the same standard, right ? The absurd comparison is necessary to demonstrate the absurd recommendation for Saudi/USA relations from some Canadians. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 List terror attacks from Canada. You can't. I take serious issue with that. Your comparisons are ridiculous. You lost around 3000 people in the 911 attacks from Saudi nationals. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: List terror attacks from Canada. You can't. I take serious issue with that. Your comparisons are ridiculous. You lost around 3000 people in the 911 attacks from Saudi nationals. There was an attack on a policeman in Michigan by a Canadian national just last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_International_Airport_incident Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cannuck Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: There was an attack on a policeman in Michigan by a Canadian national just last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_International_Airport_incident vs. how many tens of thousands of attacks on US policemen by US citizens? I can guarantee you no MI cops are losing any sleep over Canadian attacks. Quote
eyeball Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ...try looking thru the reality of your nation's domestic and international actions instead, not political rhetoric. Been there done that. Nothing there but...whataboutisms....we have no choice...the fill-in-blank-here made us do it... blah blah blah. Same shit same bucket and more importantly same results when you step in it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Ok, so here’s how it all goes down if you get your way: 1) we stooge the Saudis on this shipment of APCs 2) the Saudis buy APCs from China instead 3) the Saudis continue to be dicks for the 1,500th year in a row 4) our economy suffers 5) Chinas economy gets a boost 6) we no longer have any influence with the Saudis 7) China and the saudis build a closer relationship 8) other countries around the world don’t want to deal with us because they know that we’re going to unilaterally back out of deals that we make when we get offended. 9) we have a bunch of workers and suppliers to pay for the construction of all these APCs and no money coming in for them. Like I said same shit same bucket. Quote But the benefit here is that we get to believe that we have a shiny reputation. Guess what... at the UN no one gives a crap about anything that anyone does aside from Israel. The Saudis can do whatever they want and in a few weeks they’ll have a clean slate again. Our country sacrificed some 25% of their GDP in their fight against tyranny. Guess what....I don't give a crap what the UN thinks about us putting our principles first either. Quote 8) other countries around the world don’t want to deal with us because they know that we’re going to unilaterally back out of deals that we make when we get offended. We stop selling to dictators, sanction those who do and form coalitions with like minded countries and I guarantee you heads will turn. If the economic cost makes you take a crap at least you'll have your bucket. Edited October 23, 2018 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 4 hours ago, cannuck said: I can guarantee you no MI cops are losing any sleep over Canadian attacks. ...and I can guarantee you that at least one still does. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 1 hour ago, eyeball said: We stop selling to dictators, sanction those who do and form coalitions with like minded countries and I guarantee you heads will turn. ...but keep selling 75% to the "authoritarian" United States, which "sponsors" such dictators...right ? That's a Canadian value ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I don't think you understand the global importance of Saudi Arabia to the world's economy. The world (especially Asia) needs Saudi oil exports...world consumption exceeds 80,000,000 bpd. This is why the Saudis matter more than...Canada (which also imports Saudi oil)....why the Saudis have such leverage....far more than Canada. So important that 1/3 of the delegates slated to attend the summit in Saudi Arabia , pulled out of the conference. And the Saudi's have a lot of leverage in the USA. To the point where they can completely forgive Saudi Arabia of ANY war crimes. Makes the USA look weak and stupid. Killing journalists is OK with the USA. Killing children on a school bus in Yemen is OK with the USA. But man o man if Assad even talks smack just a little, they get bombed. Quote
GostHacked Posted October 23, 2018 Report Posted October 23, 2018 13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: No it's not...there have been several terrorist attacks from Canada...so logically Canada should be held to the same standard, right ? The absurd comparison is necessary to demonstrate the absurd recommendation for Saudi/USA relations from some Canadians. And where were 17 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 from again? Canada? Quote
eyeball Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: ...but keep selling 75% to the "authoritarian" United States, which "sponsors" such dictators...right ? That's a Canadian value ! Unfortunately it is but it shouldn't be. Eventually the whole planet should be pretty much telling you to go piss up a rope too. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Unfortunately it is but it shouldn't be. Eventually the whole planet should be pretty much telling you to go piss up a rope too. Sure...but it won't...because they like the Canadian way too ! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Sure...but it won't...because they like the Canadian way too ! It's the American way, remember? You constantly say that Canadians just follow the U.S. lead. So lead. Denial on such a vast scale. The emperor has been naked for so long we've learned to ignore the prancing and play along to make everything seem normal. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It's the American way, remember? You constantly say that Canadians just follow the U.S. lead. So lead. Denial on such a vast scale. The emperor has been naked for so long we've learned to ignore the prancing and play along to make everything seem normal. I know....Canada's smug "moral authority" only goes so far...which isn't very far at all in this case given the number of LAVs still going from Ontario to Saudi Arabia. Your foreign minister is still begging the USA to carry the post WW2 burden...because Canada can't/won't. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: I know....Canada's smug "moral authority" only goes so far...which isn't very far at all in this case given the number of LAVs still going from Ontario to Saudi Arabia. Your foreign minister is still begging the USA to carry the post WW2 burden...because Canada can't/won't. More like a much bigger and more powerful country recently undermined that order. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: More like a much bigger and more powerful country recently undermined that order. Perfect...the "order" that Canada wants the USA to protect so much included Saudi Arabia and oil exports to the world. 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted October 24, 2018 Report Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/23/2018 at 2:03 AM, bush_cheney2004 said: I don't think you understand the global importance of Saudi Arabia to the world's economy. The world (especially Asia) needs Saudi oil exports...world consumption exceeds 80,000,000 bpd. This is why the Saudis matter more than...Canada (which also imports Saudi oil)....why the Saudis have such leverage....far more than Canada. Which is the same amount of terrorism they help to export to the M.E. and across the world (remember 9/11 in NYC?) Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.