Goddess Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, dialamah said: Is it every Christian's duty and responsibility to condemn the actions of violent people who use the Bible to support a violent agenda? Or is that an expectation you only have for Muslims? Again, there is no command in the Bible's New Testament to kill, dominate or subjugate the rest of the world. It is very easy for Christians to condemn the actions of violent people who use the Bible to support a violent agenda, because there is no command to do so. Violent Christians are acting completely contrary to the Bible's instructions. No so with the Koran. Extremists have actual commands that they are following. It's right there. No one can argue the commands are are not there. So Muslims will have trouble refuting extremist ideology, as they are really the only ones doing Allah's full will. I suspect this is why most Muslims have little to say about Islamic extremists and have little interest in removing extremist imams and literature from their schools and mosques. They don't have a leg to stand on. Edited August 23, 2018 by Goddess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Goddess said: No so with the Koran. Extremists have actual commands that they are following. It's right there. No one can argue the commands are are not there. So Muslims will have trouble refuting extremist ideology, as they are really the only ones doing Allah's full will. And yet they seem to do do quite regularly. For starters, check out Muslims Condemn. Muslims Condemn was originally a Google spreadsheet containing a 712-page list of Muslims condemning things with sources produced by Heraa Hashmi, a 19-year-old American Muslim student at the University of Colorado. ---------- Isis condemned by 300 Austrian Muslim imams who sign declaration against 'extremism, violence and terror' ------------ A common criticism of Muslims globally is that they remain silent, and therefore are essentially complicit, in the face of violence, extremism, and terrorism in the name of Islam. ......Although large news networks seldom carry these Muslim voices of peace, a simple search will turn up all manner of condemnations of those whose actions tarnish the image and teachings of Islam. Below, we offer only the tip of the iceberg of Muslims worldwide speaking out against violence and extremism -------------- Islamic Statements Against Terrorism --------------- 70,000 Clerics Issue Fatwas Against Terror --------------- These are just a few examples found in a 15 second Google search. Clearly, Muslims condemn the violence of ISIS and terrorists. Anyone who continues to insist otherwise is willfully ignorant. Edited August 23, 2018 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Argus said: According to the polls there are many millions of Muslims just in Egypt who believe adulterers, blasphemers and apostates should be killed. I consider them to be extremists. Do you? Yes I do. By the way, Christians in the region tend to hold similar views as Muslims. A Egyptian Coptic Christian will be more compatible with an Egyptian Muslim than a Western Christian. As far as I have been able to determine, only in the death penalty for apostates do Muslims and Christians differ. Christians impose FGM at almost the same rate as Muslims. They disapprove of homosexuals, and think death is a suitable punishment. They also carry out honor killings. Edited August 23, 2018 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 19 minutes ago, dialamah said: Yes I do. By the way, Christians in the region tend to hold similar views as Muslims. A Egyptian Coptic Christian will be more compatible with an Egyptian Muslim than a Western Christian. As far as I have been able to determine, only in the death penalty for apostates do Muslims and Christians differ. Christians impose FGM at almost the same rate as Muslims. They disapprove of homosexuals, and think death is a suitable punishment. They also carry out honor killings. You can say that but there's no evidence of it. Lebanese Christians who came to Canada and Australia fit in quite smoothly and easily and caused few problems. The same can't be said for their Muslim countrymen a couple of decades later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, dialamah said: And yet they seem to do do quite regularly. For starters, check out Muslims Condemn. Muslims Condemn was originally a Google spreadsheet containing a 712-page list of Muslims condemning things with sources produced by Heraa Hashmi, a 19-year-old American Muslim student at the University of Colorado. ---------- Isis condemned by 300 Austrian Muslim imams who sign declaration against 'extremism, violence and terror' ------------ A common criticism of Muslims globally is that they remain silent, and therefore are essentially complicit, in the face of violence, extremism, and terrorism in the name of Islam. ......Although large news networks seldom carry these Muslim voices of peace, a simple search will turn up all manner of condemnations of those whose actions tarnish the image and teachings of Islam. Below, we offer only the tip of the iceberg of Muslims worldwide speaking out against violence and extremism -------------- Islamic Statements Against Terrorism --------------- 70,000 Clerics Issue Fatwas Against Terror --------------- These are just a few examples found in a 15 second Google search. Clearly, Muslims condemn the violence of ISIS and terrorists. Anyone who continues to insist otherwise is willfully ignorant. And once again , you missed the entire point of what I said and decided to refute something that wasn't my argument. This is a very bad habit of your's, both with myself and others. My argument was not that "No Muslims have ever condemned terrorism." My argument was that they will have trouble refuting terrorist ideology using the Koran because the Koran contains the very commands that terrorists are following. Slow clap at the excellent attempt to detract and paint me falsely, though Edited August 23, 2018 by Goddess 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 31 minutes ago, Goddess said: And once again , you missed the entire point of what I said and decided to refute something that wasn't my argument. This is a very bad habit of your's, both with myself and others. My argument was not that "No Muslims have ever condemned terrorism." My argument was that they will have trouble refuting terrorist ideology using the Koran because the Koran contains the very commands that terrorists are following. I don't think I misunderstood at all. Actual, real, practicing Muslims and Imams are condemning attacks based on what is in the Koran; there are many verses which specifically condemn murder and rape and oppression. There are also verses that specifically tell Muslims to allow people to practice their religion and to obey the laws of the land in which they live. Why should they not use those verses to support their message that violence is unacceptable? Why do you, a Western woman with no knowledge of Islam beyond that which she's picked up from anti-Muslim sources, think she can declare that Muslims have no Koranic basis for condemning violence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, Argus said: You can say that but there's no evidence of it. Lebanese Christians who came to Canada and Australia fit in quite smoothly and easily and caused few problems. The same can't be said for their Muslim countrymen a couple of decades later. What problems have Muslims caused in Canada? They have been here for decades, fitting in quite nicely as far as I can tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, dialamah said: I don't think I misunderstood at all. Actual, real, practicing Muslims and Imams are condemning attacks based on what is in the Koran; there are many verses which specifically condemn murder and rape and oppression. There are also verses that specifically tell Muslims to allow people to practice their religion and to obey the laws of the land in which they live. Why should they not use those verses to support their message that violence is unacceptable? Why do you, a Western woman with no knowledge of Islam beyond that which she's picked up from anti-Muslim sources, think she can declare that Muslims have no Koranic basis for condemning violence? Again, I did not say they have NO koranic basis for condemning violence. Stop fabricating what people say, it's getting really annoying. I said, they would have trouble refuting it because the verses are there that command them to carry out violence. Do you deny that those verses are there? They have been quoted to you over and over again, and you ignore them every time. Wake up! They exist and they are being followed by a sizeable enough portion of Muslims to cause grief worldwide. Do you deny this, too? Also, a lot of what I picked up has NOT been from reading anti-Muslim sites - you have no proof of what I read or don't read, so again - another fabrication and attempt to smear me. I have read many books BY Muslims and by ex-Muslims and by pro-Muslims, I have read on many MUSLIM websites the advice imams give to questions and yes, I am not impressed. Do they all advocate FGM and wife beating and etc etc? No, but a good portion of them do. I have studied religion and a several religions in particular. I don't have to BE a Muslim to know what the religion is about, as you yourself claim to be not a Muslim and yet seem to be able to speak for all Muslims. I have studied cults - in great depth - and how they operate to keep people in fear and enslavement. What do you have? What research have you done? What have you studied? All you have is a sister who's a Muslim and a strong (but understandable) desire to support her beliefs. You play fast and loose with numbers and stats and polls and turn every comment here into a black/white thing - YOU do. Not the people who are commenting. YOU are the one with the black/white thinking. But you continue to wave your "RAH! RAH! ISLAM!" pom poms all you want. The rest of us will deal with the realities of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 6 hours ago, taxme said: 1. Besides you love your Muslims. 2. The lefty liberal media will never say a word against anyone when they attack white people. 1. I wish peace and prosperity on all humans but I don't defend terrorists. 2. That has nothing to do with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 5 hours ago, dialamah said: I don't think I misunderstood at all. Actual, real, practicing Muslims and Imams are condemning attacks based on what is in the Koran; there are many verses which specifically condemn murder and rape and oppression. There are also verses that specifically tell Muslims to allow people to practice their religion and to obey the laws of the land in which they live. Why should they not use those verses to support their message that violence is unacceptable? Why do you, a Western woman with no knowledge of Islam beyond that which she's picked up from anti-Muslim sources, think she can declare that Muslims have no Koranic basis for condemning violence? Nope...not with abrogation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I wish peace and prosperity on all humans but I don't defend terrorists. I wish peace and prosperity on all humans who wish peace and prosperity on all humans. The rest I wish death and destruction on. But then, I had a bad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Goddess said: But you continue to wave your "RAH! RAH! ISLAM!" pom poms all you want. The rest of us will deal with the realities of it. Quite the rant. Feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 12 hours ago, dialamah said: Quite the rant. Feel better? I'd feel better if you'd stop lying about what people are saying and then I wouldn't have to rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 25 minutes ago, Goddess said: I'd feel better if you'd stop lying about what people are saying and then I wouldn't have to rant. Cuts both ways, chickie. You regularly level accusations about what I believe and what I have posted that I know are not true. I bet you would never think that you are "lying" eh? But to me, it sure as fvck looks like lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, dialamah said: Cuts both ways, chickie. You regularly level accusations about what I believe and what I have posted that I know are not true. I bet you would never think that you are "lying" eh? But to me, it sure as fvck looks like lying. Meh. Everyone who doesn't wave pom poms for Islam and make excuses for terrorists is a liar to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goddess said: Meh. Everyone who doesn't wave pom poms for Islam and make excuses for terrorists is a liar to you. What the fvck is the matter with you? I condemn terrorists, just like everyone else. Have said so many times; just because I don't assume everyone with a Muslim name is a terrorist or that a 15-year-old isn't affected by his parents' brainwashing doesn't mean I think terrorists are ok. Edited August 24, 2018 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, dialamah said: What the fvck is the matter with you? I condemn terrorists, just like everyone else. Have said so many times; just because I don't assume everyone with a Muslim name is a terrorist or that a 15-year-old isn't affected by his parents' doesn't mean I think terrorists are ok. You"ve also said all terrorists are just mentally ill people (which is insulting to people who struggle with mental illness) and that they have no religious motivation, that terrorism is because of Western influences (which may have some truth, but unlikely to be the only cause, is insulting to all the rest of the world, like we deserve to be bombed and killed indiscriminately. And it's insulting to anyone who was truly bullied in their life and didn't choose to bomb and kill innocent people.) When pushed, yes, you will condemn terrorism while still making excuses for it. You regularly deride, insult, reword posts to the point of ridiculousness and namecall anyone here who dares to suggest there may be a problem in Islam or with misogyny. Barbaric cultural practices practiced mostly by Muslims are excused because a minority of christians living in those Muslim countries also do it and besides, "they'll figure it out eventually." In the meantime, people are dying. Muslim needs, wants, perferences and demands are always what is most important to you, f**ck everyone else. That's my take on it. Edited August 24, 2018 by Goddess 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Goddess said: You"ve also said all terrorists are just mentally ill people ( What I said was that I thought anyone who killed other people, for any reason other than self-defence, had mental issues of some kind. IIRC, later in that same thread I modified that postion somewhat in responding to someone who has the capacity to read what I write and not what they've decided I must believe. 20 minutes ago, Goddess said: You regularly deride, insult, reword posts to the point of ridiculousness and namecall anyone here who dares to suggest there may be a problem in Islam or with misogyny. Cite this, or shut up. Edited August 24, 2018 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 38 minutes ago, dialamah said: Cite this, or shut up. You know you do. I'm not the only one whos called you on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 This issue is pretty clear cut for a soldier and other service members I've talked to. I don't know why it is so difficult to understand, the conflict in ideologies of the west and fundamental Islam. They are WILLING TO DIE for their belief. There is no point in reasoning with someone when they've made it their decision to blow themselves up for their cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Goddess said: You know you do. I'm not the only one whos called you on it. Yes and I am not the only one who has called you out. Anyway, Goddess, I do not want to snark at each other any more. I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours and its just a fact that we do not see eye to eye. I am sorry if I have offended you again. Hope you have a great weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 58 minutes ago, paxamericana said: This issue is pretty clear cut for a soldier and other service members I've talked to. I don't know why it is so difficult to understand, the conflict in ideologies of the west and fundamental Islam. They are WILLING TO DIE for their belief. There is no point in reasoning with someone when they've made it their decision to blow themselves up for their cause. Agree that once people have adopted an ideology, they have to find their own way out. While statements signed by Imams and Fatwas against terrorism are nice, they are really only useful for those who are not yet radicalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted August 24, 2018 Report Share Posted August 24, 2018 21 minutes ago, dialamah said: Yes and I am not the only one who has called you out. Anyway, Goddess, I do not want to snark at each other any more. I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours and its just a fact that we do not see eye to eye. I am sorry if I have offended you again. Hope you have a great weekend. You're the only one who has called me out on anything whose opinion I respect. (In spite of the snark on both our parts.) You have a great weekend, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted August 25, 2018 Report Share Posted August 25, 2018 On 8/23/2018 at 7:04 PM, Michael Hardner said: 1. I wish peace and prosperity on all humans but I don't defend terrorists. 2. That has nothing to do with me. 1. Then tell that to the Muslims who think that anyone who is not a Muslim is an infidel. Muslims appear to only want to have peace and prosperity for themselves and that all non-Muslims must become one of them if they do not want to get shot, blown up or run over by a van. Peace for the infidel is not what they want. Only chaos and havoc until the infidel surrenders to them. 2. You appear as though you do want to make what the lefty liberal media report as a part of your life. You posted this racist thread. Why did you post it anyway? Just curious that's all. The lefty Canadian liberal media wanted to make a big deal out of two people having an altercation where some words were said that the media had to try and make it all out to be one big racist story here. I can pretty much assure you that if it were the non-white guy saying a nasty racist thing towards the white guy it would never have become a news worthy story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2018 6 hours ago, taxme said: 1. You appear as though you do want to make what the lefty liberal media report as a part of your life. 2. You posted this racist thread. Why did you post it anyway? Just curious that's all. 1. The 'lefty liberal media' do not report on my life. 2. How is cheering about just desserts [sic] for a racist POS itself racist ? Your logic is twisty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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