betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Argus: When has a government in the UK intervened to change the rules of an election, local or national, that was already underway? Corrections: the election was not underway! That's just a talking point. Fake news! Ford had brought this up in July! July 27, 2018 7:18 am Updated: July 27, 2018 11:37 pm Ontario to introduce legislation to cut Toronto city council seats by nearly half Ontario Premier Doug Ford says the province will introduce legislation that aims to reduce the size of Toronto city council by nearly half just months before the fall municipal election. “We will be introducing legislation that, if passed, would dramatically improve the decision-making process at Toronto city hall,” Ford said at a news conference Friday morning at the Ontario legislature. https://globalnews.ca/news/4356447/john-tory-toronto-city-council-seats/ Should Doug Ford cut Toronto city council in half? Yes July 31, 2018 Hell hath no fury like a politician being told there will be fewer jobs for politicians. While certain members of Toronto city council are lighting their hair on fire because they may not have a job for life, Toronto taxpayers should be rejoicing. The province provided a lowball estimate of $25.5 million in savings. In all likelihood, this number will be much higher. The Toronto Star calculated that it would be closer to $30 million over four years, but even this calculation doesn’t include a number of high priced items, like generous pensions or the start-up costs for three new wards. And it also doesn’t include the savings associated with having fewer politicians with their own taxpayer-funded pet projects. A 2017 study by the Toronto-based Institute on Municipal Finance and Governance noted that large city councils tend to spend much more per capita than municipalities with small councils, and that this higher spending was a result of greater levels of “pork barrelling.” https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/thebigdebate/2018/07/31/should-doug-ford-cut-city-council-in-half-right-now-yes.html It's so scarey when politicians like Horwath - and the dishonest media - can now look you in the eye, and so blatantly lie. It's so scarey when politicians like Horwath - and the dishonest media - can now look you in the eye, and so blatantly lie. Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Both Brian Mulroney and I are spinning in our graves right now that we agree on something. It is said that politics makes strange bedfellows. Who knows, perhaps one day even you and I could be... bedfellows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Stay granted on previous Bill 5 decision, paving way for 25-ward election https://www.thestar.com/news/toronto-election/2018/09/19/stay-granted-on-previous-bill-5-decision-paving-way-for-25-ward-election.html Without the NWC in the mix, what will be the protesters' rallying cry? "Dictator Ford puts Toronto politicians out of work." To which many Ontarians will say "GOOD, By the way, McDonald's is hiring." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Stay granted on previous Bill 5 decision, paving way for 25-ward election https://www.thestar.com/news/toronto-election/2018/09/19/stay-granted-on-previous-bill-5-decision-paving-way-for-25-ward-election.html Without the NWC in the mix, what will be the protesters' rallying cry? "Dictator Ford puts Toronto politicians out of work." To which many Ontarians will say "GOOD, By the way, McDonald's is hiring." The notwithstanding clause need not be invoked after all! That should stop all the whining and bawling! Time to move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Who knows, perhaps one day even you and I could be... bedfellows? That's the worst flirt I ever heard of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Corrections: the election was not underway! That's just a talking point. Fake news! Ford had brought this up in July! Betsy: Oh no, a Trumpian is on the loose! Is it even worth commenting when your mind is so tightly closed? By the way, Ford himself didn't bring up changes to Toronto's city council until late July, on the day nominations were legally set to close and well after campaigning had begun. You can search for the details online but my guess is that you likely don't want to know the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Unelected judges are in their position to ensure that the Liberal agenda continues even if voters chose a conservative path, it`s just not talked about. What a bunch of paranoid deep-state nonsense. The simple fact of the matter is that Canadians are a fundamentally progressive people albeit a people that are cursed with having to drag the dead useless weight of kicking screaming conservatives behind it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Argus: When has a government in the UK intervened to change the rules of an election, local or national, that was already underway? The election was 3 months away when his bill was introduced. As I've said previously, the very notion is an affront to democratic precedent and practice. I was heartened to in today's G&M read just such an opinion written by a law professor who notes that Ford's behavior is not merely about the notwithstanding clause but more problematically conflicts with firmly established premises of democratic practice and conduct that govern elections. In fact, she says, Ford's pending legislation to invoke the notwithstanding clause violates existing Supreme Court of Canada precedent prohibiting the retroactive applicability of override powers. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-doug-ford-cant-apply-the-notwithstanding-clause-retroactively-to/ Law professors, generally on the left an far left, are free to give their opinions, however irrelevant and innacurate they are. Edited September 19, 2018 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 The election was 3 months away when his bill was introduced. Law professors, generally on the left an far left, are free to give their opinions, however irrelevant and innacu they are. Argus: The election was already well underway. Candidates had registered and started fundraising and campaigning when Ford's guillotine was dropped. As for law professors, from which institution, pray tell, did you obtain your law degree? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Argus: The election was already well underway. Candidates had registered and started fundraising and campaigning when Ford's guillotine was dropped. My heart bleeds for them. If they left it to three months before the election to fund-raise they were too late anyway. The only ones who had a chance of winning were the incumbents anyway, except for a few open seats where long-time political veterans were vying for that lifelong sinecure. As for law professors, from which institution, pray tell, did you obtain your law degree? Just wondering. I don't have a law degree. But I speak English. It was that extraordinary ability to speak English which allowed me to decide the original judicial decision to overturn Bill 5 was moronic and had little or nothing to do with the constitution. As the appeals court has basically now affirmed. That same ability to understand English allows me to dismiss the moronic argument of this professor that the government can't introduce a bill in the legislature using the notwithstanding clause because a previous bill was ruled unconstitutional, because this would be 'retroactive'. To support such an idiotic interpretation would mean that any time a bill was ruled unconstitutional by a court the government could not then introduce another bill in order to replace the one ruled out of order. This law professor is clearly an advocate of judicial sovereignty, like all too many of her colleagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) The election was 3 months away when his bill was introduced. Law professors, generally on the left an far left, are free to give their opinions, however irrelevant and innacurate they are. Lol thanks a lot. Anyways the constitution is clear the province has exclusive legal jurisdiction over municipal law. Municipal powers only can exist if the province says so and they can at any time redefine them. Ford is a large rhino not a cuddly teddy bear. He is a rhino who clearly thinks Andrea Horvath is a rhino in heat...i.e. heated exchange which explains his stance towards her. I do not think there will be much foreplay between the two in the legislature. It could be worse they both could be porcupines. Edited September 19, 2018 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 I think the next thing we shall see is Horvath fighting impending cuts to social services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Andrea Horwarth should apologize to everyone for fear mongering and stirring up hatred. Her head must've exploded after reading this: The court said in their unanimous ruling "It is not in the public interest to permit the impending election to proceed on the basis of a dubious ruling that invalidates legislation duly passed by the legislature," Edited September 19, 2018 by scribblet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Betsy: Oh no, a Trumpian is on the loose! Is it even worth commenting when your mind is so tightly closed? By the way, Ford himself didn't bring up changes to Toronto's city council until late July, on the day nominations were legally set to close and well after campaigning had begun. You can search for the details online but my guess is that you likely don't want to know the truth. July 30! The deadline date for FILING A NOMINATION or WITHDRAWAL is on or before July 30. Note: The City of Toronto election is being conducted on October 22 using a 47-ward model, based on the list of candidates that were certified on or before July 30. https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/elections/candidate-information/become-a-candidate/ Everyone knew of the plan to cut the council in half, as of Jul 27. Some of the nominees interviewed on TV welcomed the cut, and the challenge that lies ahead. That's the kind of attitude we should be looking for among the nominees! Everyone should've been on the ball and had been alert now that they know they've got a new Premier - a Conservative - WHO'D CAMPAIGNED TO STREAMLINE THE GOVERNMENT! That announcement shouldn't come as a surprise! That should be a no-brainer! Surely, they didn't assume that when Ford said he'd streamline the government, that he was referring to WalMart.....or the Federal government, did they? "He didn't say that in his campaign - that he'll cut the council to 25!" Any nominee who gave that line, doesn't deserve to win! They're not students that need to be hand-held, for crying out loud! They should be quick-thinkers! What do they understand by that term "stream-line?" Any candidate who doesn't get the meaning of that.....doesn't deserve that job and the big salary that comes with it! We don't want anyone asleep on their feet either! We need someone who's always prepared, with the ability to deal with anything that's thrown in his way.....and with a knack to always be a step ahead! Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 July 30! The deadline date for FILING A NOMINATION or WITHDRAWAL is on or before July 30. Betsy: It's unfortunate that your research skills are apparently lacking. In any case, the legal deadline for nominations under Ontario's Municipal Elections Act was July 27, 2018, the actual day Ford announced his intention to reduce the size of Toronto city council and three days prior to the introduction of Bill 5. You might want to try a neutral site featuring statutory links in order to ascertain accurate information. I found the relevant details on the Association of Municipalities Ontario website. The information is out there if you're looking for it. https://www.amo.on.ca/AMO-Content/Municipal-101/Municipal-Elections.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Argus: The election was already well underway. Candidates had registered and started fundraising and campaigning when Ford's guillotine was dropped. As for law professors, from which institution, pray tell, did you obtain your law degree? Just wondering. WRONG! The filing wasn't even closed yet - anyone can still withdraw - so, what are you on about the election was already underway? Don't take my word for it. Here! Note: The City of Toronto election is being conducted on October 22 using a 47-ward model, based on the list of candidates that were certified on or before July 30. https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/elections/candidate-information/become-a-candidate/ You're just repeating the lies they're spouting off! Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Betsy: It's unfortunate that your research skills are apparently lacking. In any case, the legal deadline for nominations under Ontario's Municipal Elections Act was July 27, 2018, the actual day Ford announced his intention to reduce the size of Toronto city council and three days prior to the introduction of Bill 5. You might want to try a neutral site featuring statutory links in order to ascertain accurate information. I found the relevant details on the Association of Municipalities Ontario website. The information is out there if you're looking for it. https://www.amo.on.ca/AMO-Content/Municipal-101/Municipal-Elections.aspx What's wrong with my site? It's Toronto's site! Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/elections/candidate-information/become-a-candidate/ Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 WRONG! The filing wasn't even closed yet - anyone can still withdraw - so, what are you on about the election was already underway? Don't take my word for it. Here You're just repeating the lies they're spouting off! Betsy: Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about the rules established in legislation until Ford changed them to suit his agenda. The AMO site is clearly delineates the Municipal Elections Act info. Don't respond further unless/until you have something constructive to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Betsy: It's unfortunate that your research skills are apparently lacking. In any case, the legal deadline for nominations under Ontario's Municipal Elections Act was July 27, 2018, the actual day Ford announced his intention to reduce the size of Toronto city council and three days prior to the introduction of Bill 5. You might want to try a neutral site featuring statutory links in order to ascertain accurate information. I found the relevant details on the Association of Municipalities Ontario website. The information is out there if you're looking for it. https://www.amo.on.ca/AMO-Content/Municipal-101/Municipal-Elections.aspx Lol. They differ, don't they? See? They can't even get the date right! Which one is the right one? See the INEFFICIENCY????? Streamline farther! Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) Betsy: Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about the rules established in legislation until Ford changed them to suit his agenda. The AMO site is clearly delineates the Municipal Elections Act info. Don't respond further unless/until you have something constructive to offer. No, stick to the issue. I'm correcting your comment that, "the election was underway!" It was not! Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 What's wrong with my site? It's Toronto's site! Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. The Toronto site indicates that the nominations for the 47 seat council had to be "certified" by July 30, which presumably is a different process than actually filing a nomination, which according to applicable provincial legislation had to be done by July 27, 2018. Fordistas can't have it both ways on this. They can't argue that municipal rules and guidelines somehow pre-empt provincial statutes when it suits them and otherwise argue that provincial statutes, as dictated by Queen's Park, are paramount in other instances. I believe available evidence supports the contention that the nominations deadline was July 27, 2018, the day Ford announced his changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) The Toronto site indicates that the nominations for the 47 seat council had to be "certified" by July 30, which presumably is a different process than actually filing a nomination, which according to applicable provincial legislation had to be done by July 27, 2018. Fordistas can't have it both ways on this. They can't argue that municipal rules and guidelines somehow pre-empt provincial statutes when it suits them and otherwise argue that provincial statutes, as dictated by Queen's Park, are paramount in other instances. I believe available evidence supports the contention that the nominations deadline was July 27, 2018, the day Ford announced his changes. It's the same thing. Certifying is a process that makes it official. Scroll a little bit below - check the withdrawal info. Also this: Key Dates July 30 City Clerk certified 544 candidates who filed a nomination to run for the offices of Mayor, Councillor and School Board Trustee under the 47-ward model. August 20 Also, the first day for a candidate who has already filed a nomination under the 47-ward model to notify the Clerk of their intent to continue running in the election and of their new ward number. September 14 Nominations close at 2 p.m. Also, deadline for candidates who have already filed a nomination under the 47-ward model to notify the Clerk of their intent to continue to run; otherwise they are deemed withdrawn and their name will not appear on the ballot. https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/elections/general-information/better-local-government-act-2018-bill-5/25-wards-candidate-faqs/ Lol. They just made it sound like the sky was falling. See? Everything is fine. Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 It's the same. Cerifying is a process that makes it official. Scroll a little bit below - the same is said for withdrawing. I believe you're incorrect. However, if there is a conflict, provincial statute resolves it, as any self-respecting Fordista would clearly understand to be the case. Whether or not there is a difference between the terms "nomination" and "certification", the Friday, July 27, 2018 deadline was well understood in the broader community including in media coverage, as per the item on the Global News site linked below. https://globalnews.ca/news/4353720/toronto-election-nomination-filing-deadline/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted September 19, 2018 Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) I believe you're incorrect. However, if there is a conflict, provincial statute resolves it, as any self-respecting Fordista would clearly understand to be the case. Whether or not there is a difference between the terms "nomination" and "certification", the Friday, July 27, 2018 deadline was well understood in the broader community including in media coverage, as per the item on the Global News site linked below. https://globalnews.ca/news/4353720/toronto-election-nomination-filing-deadline/ Look at my latest post. Found it at Toronto site. Everything is cool. Edited September 19, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted September 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2018 Look at my latest post. Found it at Toronto site. Everything is cool. I looked at it. It tells me nothing new. Presumably the city will now update its site to reflect the new Fordian rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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