Trump caves in to EU on trade

[turningrite]

The German news outlet Deutsche Welle reports that Trump caved in to end a tariff war he started against the EU. It's too funny, really. Does he have any idea how overmatched he is? Apparently, he was facing too much criticism of his trade policies from Congress as well as among his own supporters, particularly in the Midwest, and pulled the plug before suffering any further political damage so close to the midterms. So, blowback forced his hand. Welcome to the real world Mr. Trump!

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-eu-solidarity-successful-against-donald-trump/a-44828078

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure...and the Wall Street Journal reports EU concessions to Trump...this is a fun game to play:

Quote

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump has secured concessions from the European Union to avoid a trade war, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday, citing an EU official who was in the room during talks between Trump and the EU’s Jean-Claude Juncker.

Trump secures concessions from EU to avoid trade war: Wall Street Journal

 

[Kerfuffle]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Sure...and the Wall Street Journal reports EU concessions to Trump...this is a fun game to play:

 

Giving farmers 12 billion kinda explains it all EU-1 TRUMP-0

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

The German news outlet Deutsche Welle reports that Trump caved in to end a tariff war he started against the EU. It's too funny, really. Does he have any idea how overmatched he is? Apparently, he was facing too much criticism of his trade policies from Congress as well as among his own supporters, particularly in the Midwest, and pulled the plug before suffering any further political damage so close to the midterms. So, blowback forced his hand. Welcome to the real world Mr. Trump!

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-eu-solidarity-successful-against-donald-trump/a-44828078

I think you are missing the two biggest point. 

1) they've reach an agreement to phase out tariffs 

2) they are uniting to take on China by re-writing the WTO

 

with respect to the EU, they are trying to diversify their market for energy deleveraging Russia's geopolitical leverage. 

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, turningrite said:

So, blowback forced his hand. Welcome to the real world Mr. Trump!

I doubt it. By now it should be very clear that Donald Trump does not give one heck about "blowback".

From what I understand the "deal" with EU (not official yet...) is far better than any deal before. As in NO tariffs. Not just the new tariffs implemented by Trump, but the old ones which the EU had imposed on US vehicles, etc. This is capitalism on steroids. Trump's methods are bizarre and confusing to some, which raises much fear, and yet they appear to be very effective so far.

[betsy]

10 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Giving farmers 12 billion kinda explains it all EU-1 TRUMP-0

You think that's never part of the game-plan?   Surely, Trump had anticipated a retaliation!

[turningrite]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

I think you are missing the two biggest point. 

1) they've reach an agreement to phase out tariffs 

2) they are uniting to take on China by re-writing the WTO

 

with respect to the EU, they are trying to diversify their market for energy deleveraging Russia's geopolitical leverage. 

Did you read the Deutsche Welle piece? It looks like the Europeans played Trump like a fiddle, as per the following excerpt:

"Yes, a few concessions were made. The EU will import more liquefied natural gas from the US, as well as more soybeans and other agricultural commodities. This is the part of the EU-US "deal" that Trump will present to his supporters as a major victory. And with respect to negotiations on a free trade agreement for industrial products, which Trump put into play a few days ago via Twitter, he will say: Look here, I forced the Europeans to the negotiating table."

Clearly, the Europeans understand Trump's political difficulties at home and made a couple small concessions to allow him to save face. We all know that the narcissistic Trump needs to be able to claim victory even where no victory has occurred. Too bad for Americans that they'll be eaten alive if they imagine Trump to be their savior. Maybe he can negotiate a real estate or casino deal, or arrange coverups for his sordid personal dalliances (it seems he has little self-control where his personal behavior is concerned, which is quite sad), but in international affairs he's simply mismatched. The "Putin's Poodle" debacle in Helsinki may just be the tip of the iceberg.

Edited July 27, 2018 by turningrite

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, turningrite said:

.... Too bad for Americans that they'll be eaten alive if they imagine Trump to be their savior. Maybe he can negotiate a real estate or casino deal, or arrange coverups for his sordid personal dalliances (it seems he has little self-control where his personal behavior is concerned, which is quite sad), but in international affairs he's simply mismatched. The "Putin's Poodle" debacle in Helsinki may just be the tip of the iceberg.

 

Mismatched compared to who ?   Certainly not Canada's feminist agenda "saviour"...Justin Trudeau, who not only failed to achieve far less, but doesn't even have the scope and depth of international issues to navigate on a daily basis.    How is PM Theresa May doing these days ?   Of maybe Angela Merkel ?  Certainly not Hillary Clinton....already "eaten alive" by Trump in 2016.

So worried about Americans....because Canada's economy is so dependent on them ?

Edited July 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[turningrite]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Mismatched compared to who ?   Certainly not Canada's feminist agenda "saviour"...Justin Trudeau, who not only failed to achieve far less, but doesn't even have the scope and depth of international issues to navigate on a daily basis.    How is PM Theresa May doing these days ?   Of maybe Angela Merkel ?  Certainly not Hillary Clinton....already "eaten alive" by Trump in 2016.

So worried about Americans....because Canada's economy is so dependent on them ?

Canada is a minnow in a big sea and Trudeau's a lightweight, so perhaps you might set your gaze elsewhere to get a true picture of what's going on. Trump has been trumped in his meetings with almost every major foreign leader he's dealt with. Xi, Kim, Putin and the major EU leaders (with the possible exception of the UK's May, who's facing a political crisis) have all figured Trump out. Accommodating his narcissism is step one, and things go downhill for U.S. interests from that point. It was kind of surprising that Putin didn't pat the embarrassingly obsequious and servile Trump on the head at the end their meeting in Helsinki. Maybe he was warned to avoid contact with the hair dye.

The only risk for Canada as Trump continues to flail is that we might eventually be the only punching bag he has left, especially given our feckless leadership.

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Canada is a minnow in a big sea and Trudeau's a lightweight, so perhaps you might set your gaze elsewhere to get a true picture of what's going on. Trump has been trumped in his meetings with almost every major foreign leader he's dealt with. Xi, Kim, Putin and the major EU leaders (with the possible exception of the UK's May, who's facing a political crisis) have all figured Trump out.

 

Doesn't matter...minnow or not, I do not think you are being very objective about Trump's successes and failures compared to his international peers, for both domestic and foreign policy issues.    I mentioned May, Merkel, and Trudeau specifically, but there are others.   I get it...you don't like Trump...but that doesn't mean he has lost at every turn.

 

Quote

Accommodating his narcissism is step one, and things go downhill for U.S. interests from that point. It was kind of surprising that Putin didn't pat the embarrassingly obsequious and servile Trump on the head at the end their meeting in Helsinki. Maybe he was warned to avoid contact with the hair dye.

 

More personal attacks on Trump does not change the international calculus.   Trudeau was mocked and jeered for far less in India.

 

Quote

The only risk for Canada as Trump continues to flail is that we might eventually be the only punching bag he has left, especially given our feckless leadership.

 

Trump is not responsible for Canada.   Seek true love elsewhere.

Meanwhile, U.S. GDP is at 4.1% for 2Q2018....Canada's is not....EU's is not.

Edited July 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter...minnow or not, I do not think you are being very objective about Trump's successes and failures compared to his international peers, for both domestic and foreign policy issues.    I mentioned May, Merkel, and Trudeau specifically, but there are others.   I get it...you don't like Trump...but that doesn't mean he has lost at every turn.

More personal attacks on Trump does not change the international calculus.   Trudeau was mocked and jeered for far less in India.

Trump is not responsible for Canada.   Seek true love elsewhere.

You seem fixated on Canada and Trudeau. This topic is about Trump and the EU. And what about Merkel? She's figured out how to get around Trump as she's got the power of the EU behind Germany's interests. Trump thinks that allies are expendable while Merkel seems to understand how very useful they can be. She didn't need to be the front person in the effort to get Trump to fold on tariffs. We'll see how far Trump's 'l'etat c'est moi' schtick works in the modern world.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

You seem fixated on Canada and Trudeau. This topic is about Trump and the EU. And what about Merkel? She's figured out how to get around Trump as she's got the power of the EU behind Germany's interests. Trump thinks that allies are expendable while Merkel seems to understand how very useful they can be. She didn't need to be the front person in the effort to get Trump to fold on tariffs. We'll see how far Trump's 'l'etat c'est moi' schtick works in the modern world.

 

This is a Canadian forum (hosted in the United States, of course).   Comparisons to American politics and culture are routinely made regardless of forum topic...it is the Canadian way, so I often return the favour in the opposite direction.

Merkel understands that she is just another migrant crisis from losing her wobbly coalition government.

I agree that Trump matters a lot more than Trudeau in the "modern world".

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Centerpiece]

On 7/26/2018 at 11:43 PM, turningrite said:

The German news outlet Deutsche Welle reports that Trump caved in to end a tariff war he started against the EU. It's too funny, really. Does he have any idea how overmatched he is? Apparently, he was facing too much criticism of his trade policies from Congress as well as among his own supporters, particularly in the Midwest, and pulled the plug before suffering any further political damage so close to the midterms. So, blowback forced his hand. Welcome to the real world Mr. Trump!

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-eu-solidarity-successful-against-donald-trump/a-44828078

Surely you understand that the the Germans have to save face with their reporting.The stock market and American dollar will tell you how well Trump is doing - or not doing. So far, he's done pretty darn good. I don't like the guy but you can't argue with results. Your 401K looks pretty safe - unless you've invested in those green energy scams.

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

Surely you understand that the the Germans have to save face with their reporting.The stock market and American dollar will tell you how well Trump is doing - or not doing. So far, he's done pretty darn good. I don't like the guy but you can't argue with results. Your 401K looks pretty safe - unless you've invested in those green energy scams.

I believe that despite all his huffing and puffing and tough talk Trump was facing a lot of grief from Republican members of Congress, particularly in battleground regions that could well tip the outcome of the midterms,  thus causing him to seek a quick resolution. The EU had reasons as well to want the tariff war halted but it didn't start the conflict in the first place. Where a person or party starts a fight and then quickly backs off, it's generally seen as the aggressor's loss.

[Centerpiece]

7 hours ago, turningrite said:

I believe that despite all his huffing and puffing and tough talk Trump was facing a lot of grief from Republican members of Congress, particularly in battleground regions that could well tip the outcome of the midterms,  thus causing him to seek a quick resolution. The EU had reasons as well to want the tariff war halted but it didn't start the conflict in the first place. Where a person or party starts a fight and then quickly backs off, it's generally seen as the aggressor's loss.

Trump doesn't fit into the "generally" category. Instead of just looking for a way to disparage Trump - maybe you should reflect on the fact that the removal of tariffs will ultimately be a "win" for both sides - it spurs creativity and productivity. Even Globalists (but not elitists) should be happy - because true free trade cannot be accomplished with protective tariffs. 

[OftenWrong]

8 hours ago, turningrite said:

I believe that despite all his huffing and puffing and tough talk Trump was facing a lot of grief from Republican members of Congress, particularly in battleground regions that could well tip the outcome of the midterms,  thus causing him to seek a quick resolution. 

Where did you get that idea? Never heard of such a thing. Do you have a cite, or is it just something you'd like to believe.

I do recall that the EU made some big concessions of their own,namely the number one issue that Trump was critical about- EU tariffs on US cars. Your opening post does not take this into consideration. Perhaps you are reading fake news. Here's a cite for you.

German automakers willing to drop all tariffs with U.S., report says

That took about two seconds to find with google.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, turningrite said:

.... The EU had reasons as well to want the tariff war halted but it didn't start the conflict in the first place. Where a person or party starts a fight and then quickly backs off, it's generally seen as the aggressor's loss.

 

The EU is no stranger to starting fights over trade, including higher/longstanding tariff and non-tariff barriers to U.S. exports, notably agriculture.    To say that Trump started the fight shows a lack of perspective on trade/tariffs:

 

Quote

The World Trade Organization (WTO) tracks how many imports face tariffs of more than 15 percent, and on this metric, the United States looks better than its peers. According to the WTO, 7.1 percent of Canadian imports face these high tariffs, 4.1 percent of imports to the E.U. face them and 2.8 percent of imports to the United States are hit with high tariffs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/08/there-are-nuggets-of-truth-to-what-trump-says-about-trade/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23488d39760b

 

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Where did you get that idea? Never heard of such a thing. Do you have a cite, or is it just something you'd like to believe.

I do recall that the EU made some big concessions of their own,namely the number one issue that Trump was critical about- EU tariffs on US cars. Your opening post does not take this into consideration. Perhaps you are reading fake news. Here's a cite for you.

German automakers willing to drop all tariffs with U.S., report says

That took about two seconds to find with google.

You only need read a little more broadly to be informed of the political battle that's emerged within Trump's party over tariff policies. You might have to spend more than two seconds googling, though, to actually know what you're talking about. Perhaps it's an attention span issue? In any case, you raise the situation of one industry in one country while ignoring the emerging political resistance to tariff policy within Congress itself. Are you aware that the U.S. Senate recently voted 88-11 against Trump's approach on tariffs? (See first link below). Although the vote is non-binding, it suggests Trump's tariff policies are a hard sell with many Republicans in Congress, apparently including some of the usual lapdogs who've reflexively supported Trump on other issues. The rumblings of discontent were apparent from the outset, particularly where Trump's attacks on allies are concerned.(See second link below) Trump, as it turns out, isn't yet a dictator, even within his own party, which perhaps explains why he seems so entranced by the powers of dictators elsewhere who don't have to deal with pesky politicians who are compelled to respond to constituent concerns in order to get elected. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-11/senate-sends-trump-message-to-slow-down-on-tariff-escalation

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/republicans-gop-react-tariffs-trade-trump-aluminum-steel-imports/index.html

Edited July 30, 2018 by turningrite

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

You only need read a little more broadly to be informed of the political battle that's emerged within Trump's party over tariff policies. You might have to spend more than two seconds googling, though, to actually know what you're talking about. Perhaps it's an attention span issue? In any case, you raise the situation of one industry in one country while ignoring the emerging political resistance to tariff policy within Congress itself. Are you aware that the U.S. Senate recently voted 88-11 against Trump's approach on tariffs? (See first link below). Although the vote is non-binding, it suggests Trump's tariff policies are a hard sell with many Republicans in Congress, apparently including some of the usual lapdogs who've reflexively supported Trump on other issues. The rumblings of discontent were apparent from the outset, particularly where Trump's attacks on allies are concerned.(See second link below) Trump, as it turns out, isn't yet a dictator, even within his own party, which perhaps explains why he seems so entranced by the powers of dictators elsewhere who don't have to deal with pesky politicians who are compelled to respond to constituent concerns in order to get elected. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-11/senate-sends-trump-message-to-slow-down-on-tariff-escalation

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/31/politics/republicans-gop-react-tariffs-trade-trump-aluminum-steel-imports/index.html

That is why trump is elected. He isn't a politician. He is doing what he thinks is best. Sure there are disagreement but I can tell you that two previous administration tried and failed to re negotiate these trade deals. Trump is taking a first step in the right direction and it is bearing fruit. Look at the eu and mexico. Only one left is silly canada and china.  Secondly, tariff is now a executive branch power under national security. The supreme court can knock out any congressional overstep. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by paxamericana

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

That is why trump is elected. He isn't a politician. He is doing what he thinks is best.

Huh? What do you think he is? An unchecked emperor or king? Isn't this exactly what the republic's founders sought to avoid? Actually, Trump's power over trade isn't grounded in the constitution but instead is a consequence of congressional decisions over time to transfer emergency powers to the president. These powers can, reportedly, be rescinded, however such an outcome is unlikely where Republican lapdogs continue to enable Trump's behavior. There's a growing sense that he's abusing the "national security" rationale and imposing an agenda that in many aspects is likely opposed by a majority in Congress, at least if the non-binding Senate vote is a good indication. The midterms should prove interesting as all bets will be off in the event that the Republicans lose control of one or both houses.

[paxamericana]

3 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Huh? What do you think he is? An unchecked emperor or king?

Not so much, i see the executive branch as a way to get pass toxic partisan gridlock, like those that plagued the obama administration. I do concede that it is a dangerous path to allow further executive power. 

 

5 minutes ago, turningrite said:

The midterms should prove interesting as all bets will be off in the event that the Republicans lose control of one or both houses.

Yes it will, the math is definitely in the democrat favor. We will see if Trump's brand of grassroot politics will carry him through the midterm. 

[turningrite]

29 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Yes it will, the math is definitely in the democrat favor. We will see if Trump's brand of grassroot politics will carry him through the midterm. 

Which, of course, is why Trump was in substantial measure, if not solely, driven by opposition within his own party to moderate his tariff dispute with the EU. At the end of the day, he's a politician too as his actions are driven and limited by political considerations.

[bush_cheney2004]

If the U.S. Congress is equally effective on trade as it has been on immigration "reform", then President Trump has little to worry about....dither...dither...dither.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, turningrite said:

You only need read a little more broadly to be informed of the political battle that's emerged within Trump's party over tariff policies. You might have to spend more than two seconds googling, though, to actually know what you're talking about. Perhaps it's an attention span issue? In any case, you raise the situation of one industry in one country while ignoring the emerging political resistance to tariff policy within Congress itself.

So you did not take that reduction of automotive tariffs by the EU into consideration, which was Trump's main criticism of their trade relationship and the number one thing he wanted to see changed. Your OP mentions Germany, not the criticism he received from certain members of the GOP within US. Now that it's been shown that you missed the main point entirely, you want to dodge around that with petty little ad-hominems. Sorry, but your assessment was incorrect.

[turningrite]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

So you did not take that reduction of automotive tariffs by the EU into consideration, which was Trump's main criticism of their trade relationship and the number one thing he wanted to see changed. Your OP mentions Germany, not the criticism he received from certain members of the GOP within US. Now that it's been shown that you missed the main point entirely, you want to dodge around that with petty little ad-hominems. Sorry, but your assessment was incorrect.

Again, you need to read. As I noted in a previous post, where I responded to a post by Centerpiece, both sides had incentives to reach an agreement. However, while the tone among Trump supporters is to view this as a "victory" for their side, it's clearly no such thing. The political situation in the U.S., and particularly within the Republican Party with the midterms approaching, was logically far more relevant to the timing of this deal than was any single industrial lobby or country in the EU. I guess it's a good thing that you realize you're OftenWrong, right?