Canada should renounce democracy

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

No, do the numbers for the past two years on refugees, especially from Syria, considering that the U.S. has around 10 times the population of Canada.  The U.S. contribution to the refugee crisis is abysmal. 

 

The U.S. has admitted far more refugees than Canada in the past two years...here is 2016:

[Zeitgeist]

While you’re being a bit harsh, Jaycee, there are too many stories of military intervention as inroad to business investment/resources to discredit your stance (Halliburton, Cheney and Iraq; funding military through the sale of opium during the Cold War in Southeat Asia, selling arms for hostages, etc.).  It’s challenging for the U.S. to maintain integrity in a world of dirty players. The U.S. has gotten its hands dirty in the process, sometimes perhaps necessarily, sometimes not.  Trump acknowledges that.  I’d still rather follow the U.S. than China.  That could change if the U.S. doesn’t treat allies more respectfully.  

[Zeitgeist]

Right, so proportionally the U.S. has admitted less than half of the refugees that Canada has in relation to our countries’ population sizes. 

[jacee]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

While you’re being a bit harsh, Jaycee, there are too many stories of military intervention as inroad to business investment/resources to discredit your stance (Halliburton, Cheney and Iraq; funding military through the sale of opium during the Cold War in Southeat Asia, selling arms for hostages, etc.).  It’s challenging for the U.S. to maintain integrity in a world of dirty players. The U.S. has gotten its hands dirty in the process, sometimes perhaps necessarily, sometimes not.  Trump acknowledges that.  I’d still rather follow the U.S. than China.  That could change if the U.S. doesn’t treat allies more respectfully.  

Wow! Blaming others for dirtying US hands? That's rich! 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Right, so proportionally the U.S. has admitted less than half of the refugees that Canada has in relation to our countries’ population sizes. 

 

Proportionality means nothing to refugees....the facts are that the U.S. admits more refugees and migrants than Canada....always has. 

 

[GostHacked]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Proportionality means nothing to refugees....the facts are that the U.S. admits more refugees and migrants than Canada....always has. 

 

They have to go through the USA to get to Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

Nice try. It’s apples and oranges.  You must always consider the size of each country’s population and economy and compare countries’ contributions relative to their sizes.

[jacee]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Proportionality means nothing to refugees....the facts are that the U.S. admits more refugees and migrants than Canada....always has. 

 

Not too good at math?

[Zeitgeist]

Good point, Ghosthacked.  The U.S. has created a refugee crisis of its own in North America that Canada has had to clean up as migrants cross from the U.S.  

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Nice try. It’s apples and oranges.  You must always consider the size of each country’s population and economy and compare countries’ contributions relative to their sizes.

 

Nonsense....how are China and India doing on refugees using your approach ?

The U.S. admits more refugees and migrants than Canada....game...set...match.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Trump is right - NATO countries are not paying what they agreed. Canada agreed to give up the development of military weapons (Avro Arrow) and never develop nuclear weapons as part of an agreement with the U.S. when we joined NORAD. The U.S. does not want nuclear weapons on its doorstep, even from a friendly country. Our so-called "military" buys American made junk and exists basically as an expeditionary force to send off on "peacekeeping" missions around the world in concert with whatever the U.S. tells us to do. Except for Vietnam, we cleverly avoided that mess. And the disaster in Iraq. 

The reason the U.S. spends more on military that the top 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are Allies, is due to an out-of-control Military Industrial Complex that controls congress and gets whatever it wants, and an irrational fear of Russia (as evidenced by the Muh-Russia election interference baloney). Sorry General Patton, you missed your chance to fight Russia at the end of WW2. Now they got nukes so any fightin' will have to be in proxy wars in tinpot dictatorships opposing the dreaded "commie insurgence". 

You could easily pay for basic socialized health care for all citizens if you just cut down that wild military spending a tad. 

Otherwise, yes I agree, and see no reason for the U.S. to have military bases spread out all over the world. They're useless and expensive to maintain. 

[Argus]

On 7/4/2018 at 2:14 PM, paxrom said:

I propose that in keeping with the wishes of both countries, Canada should quickly kowtow to beijing or russia. Renounce any notion of a free and independent country. Turn into hongkong, and elect leaders that are pre approved by the central government. It will make the Russian election meddling look like child's play. Criticism of the central government would be suppress and all dissidents will quickly disappear. Free and independent press would no longer be necessary. George orwell would turn over in his grave at the level of dystopia. But these issue are a small price to pay for getting rid of obnoxious American fascism. 

Kind of sarcastic there, ain't ya, boy?

I agree that neither Canada nor most NATO countries have lived up to the promised 2% minimum spending. I am not, nor have I ever been happy about our lack of military ability. At the same time, as others have acknowledged, we face no real threat to our sovereignty, either external or internal. And unlike the US, Canada lacks the interest or concern in influencing international affairs. 

And let's be honest. US 'protection' is not out of generosity but self-interest. Where would the US be today had it been isolationist and not extended that protection to Europe? We might perhaps be in a world where the Soviet Union's 'east bloc' allies now consisted of the entirety of Europe. All arrayed against the US. That's to say nothing of a lack of trade for US industry. The US extends its military interest throughout the world out of self-interest. It does not want its enemies or rivals controlling even third world countries which contain resources and raw material its industries require.  Canada has less industry and less need of importing foreign resources. Much less. 

The US protects Canadian territory out of self-interest once again. It's laughable to assert otherwise. The US does not want Russia or China controlling either Canada or Mexico. This is known, of course. You don't have to be a military genius to figure it out. And that makes it easy for Canadian politicians to short-change the military in order to spend on other priorities - you know, the ones that get them votes. 

There's less excuse for the Europeans because I believe there actually is a genuine military threat from the Russians there, but you've got a collection of mostly very lefty coalition governments who can't even work up the testosterone to protect their borders from unarmed migrants. Expecting them to get all militaristic suddenly is a forlorn hope. They, like Canada's liberals, are all of a "We are the world, we are the children" kind of mindset. We're all equal and respectful and tolerant and very anti violence, you know. That doesn't go well with "Kill em all and let God sort em out".

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, paxrom said:

Since when did we become imperialist? 

You seem pretty interested in that, maybe you're just hoping. 

American Hegemony
Manifest Destiny 
American imperialism

In any case, don't knock yourself out on my account. 

[Jimwd]

10 hours ago, paxrom said:

You're not really discussing the topic but feel free to bring up irrelevant examples of history about standing army. The standing army is about using the military against their own people not because we're trying to fend off external threats. 

The framers n they wanted an armed militia was because they didn't want a standing army. If you were correct then Jefferson wouldn't have said this.

The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier, and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so.
Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814, 546

 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

The US only spreads the evil tentacles of predatory capitalism. 

LOLS yeah okay, I guess we're so evil the rest of you all must really hate us. We'll go away now. Not sure if I'm talking to a communist Russian or not but I'll just assume you're anti-capitalist because you don't enjoy free-market. 

 

1 hour ago, jacee said:

20 US vets commit suicide every day because they realize why they were really made to invade countries and kill innocent people: Profits for the wealthy.

NOPE wrong again and please don't joke about this, I have many veteran friends going through their inner demons trying to keep it from consuming them. Often suicide seems like a quick escape. It's not for the reason you stated. It's because of the isolation they feel when they get home with nobody understanding the experiences that they been through. There's been much work done of helping veterans to connect and support one another. Actually talk to a vets before you disgrace your self with utter bullshit from Russia please. 

 

[paxamericana]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You seem pretty interested in that, maybe you're just hoping. 

American Hegemony
Manifest Destiny 
American imperialism

In any case, don't knock yourself out on my account. 

I've said it before in other post so I'll say it again, its meant to offend as many Canadian and European liberal snowflakes as possible. Quick grab your shovel. 

[Jimwd]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. has more landed immigrants and refugees than the entire population of Canada.

On a per capita basis....Canada takes far more immigrants. Look up "per capita" in the  dictionary.

[paxamericana]

OMG people move the immigrant debate to that post I started one for this purpose. We're trying to talk about Nato deadbeats and the merit of democracy here.

Edited July 8, 2018 by paxrom

[Jimwd]

4 minutes ago, paxrom said:

 

NOPE wrong again and please don't joke about this, I have many veteran friends going through their inner demons trying to keep it from consuming them. Often suicide seems like a quick escape. It's not for the reason you stated. It's because of the isolation they feel when they get home with nobody understanding the experiences that they been through. There's been much work done of helping veterans to connect and support one another. Actually talk to a vets before you disgrace your self with utter bullshit from Russia please. 

 

I watched a documentary on an young american vet. His suicidal thoughts were because of the atrocities he committed against civilians. He couldn't stand what he had done.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Jimwd said:

On a per capita basis....Canada takes far more immigrants. Look up "per capita" in the  dictionary.

 

OK...on a per capita basis...Canada is also a NATO deadbeat.

[paxamericana]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK...on a per capita basis...Canada is also a NATO deadbeat.

fair enough but I'll give them credit where its due, at least they're making an effort to raise their defense spending. Slowly but grudgingly. 

[Jimwd]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK...on a per capita basis...Canada is also a NATO deadbeat.

I accept your defeat on the point.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Jimwd said:

I watched a documentary on an young american vet. His suicidal thoughts were because of the atrocities he committed against civilians. He couldn't stand what he had done.

This is what they get for failing to fashion their education system after Klingon military prep schools.  They're throwing snowflakes into battle with a moral underpinning that is thoroughly  inadequate for the job they've been tasked with.

These vets should be coming home bursting with pride not shame. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, paxrom said:

fair enough but I'll give them credit where its due, at least they're making an effort to raise their defense spending. Slowly but grudgingly. 

 

No, Canada is very good at deferring DND spending, kicking the can down the road.  DND is not permitted to spend the funding, and the Canadian military procurement process is the biggest circle jerk in the world.

....but they sure do love those...big...fat...juicy...AMERICAN defense contracts (like the F-35 JSF program).

Edited July 8, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[paxamericana]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, Canada is very good at deferring DND spending, kicking the can down the road.  DND is not permitted to spend the funding, and the Canadian military procurement process is the biggest circle jerk in the world.

It's difficult for them, they're griping about  "National Defence fell $2.3 billion short" that's like loose change for us. 

Well its what we got to work with unfortunately. 

 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sajjan-dnd-equipment-funds-1.4683606