DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, bcsapper said: I thought they did. George Armstrong Custer told me all about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilcotin_War Already happened. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 Could happen again too if push comes to shove. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, eyeball said: Could happen again too if push comes to shove. Judge Begbie can do the hangin' 1 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 Interestingly, Judge Begbie concluded that the most important cause of the unrest was concern over title to land rather than "plunder or revenge" A native judge or jury might have ruled they were just folks, standing their ground, defending their families. Maybe it would depend on how much sentiment the principle was generating in society. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
DogOnPorch Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, eyeball said: Interestingly, Judge Begbie concluded that the most important cause of the unrest was concern over title to land rather than "plunder or revenge" A native judge or jury might have ruled they were just folks, standing their ground, defending their families. Maybe it would depend on how much sentiment the principle was generating in society. What's a little plunder and revenge among pals? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Hal 9000 Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 2 hours ago, eyeball said: I don't know yet I'm still testing how far the principle of standing your ground in defence of it extends. Lets say an indigenous people decided to stand their ground and resist the invasion of their lands, how would you feel about that? Are you really trying to stretch this to land claim issues? Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
betsy Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 12 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: There is only the moment and the choice to act. It's all over by the time one chats about it. I hope I don't freeze if it ever happens here. I might just be all talk right now...... Quote
betsy Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 13 hours ago, ?Impact said: The problem is most people who ask that end up escalating the situation because it is not the last resort but something they plan for and they hurt their own families in far greater numbers than protecting them. I'm asking you a question: Are you saying you wouldn't resort to any violence to protect your family? Quote
betsy Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: Are you suggesting a proportional defense? I better make sure I got knives of varying sizes and length - you know..... to match whatever kind the perpetrator is using. Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy Quote
Michael Hardner Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 8 hours ago, bcsapper said: Your comment had nothing to do with his question. I was replying here to your comment. Yes, he said what's the base principle around "standing your ground" and I mockingly mocked adherence to principles. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Guest Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: Yes, he said what's the base principle around "standing your ground" and I mockingly mocked adherence to principles. Ah, okay, sorry. Didn't see the mocking. Quote
eyeball Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Hal 9000 said: Are you really trying to stretch this to land claim issues? I think the people trying to establish standing one's ground as a principle or doctrine are doing that. Why do you think its such a stretch? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, bcsapper said: Ah, okay, sorry. Didn't see the mocking. Can you see who or what Mike was mocking? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
?Impact Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 7 hours ago, betsy said: I'm asking you a question: Are you saying you wouldn't resort to any violence to protect your family? I am answering very clearly: I would not plan for violence. 7 hours ago, betsy said: I better make sure I got knives of varying sizes and length - you know..... to match whatever kind the perpetrator is using. This goes along with the planning for violence. You are implying an arms war, just get the biggest gun you can. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 6 hours ago, eyeball said: I think the people trying to establish standing one's ground as a principle or doctrine are doing that. Why do you think its such a stretch? No, that's what you're doing. But okay, If I'm walking around a FN's house (on reserve or not) with intent to harm somebody, then yes, they have every right to 'stand their ground' and defend themselves. To equate this to a FN's barricade like we saw in Caledonia, is disingenuous. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
eyeball Posted February 13, 2018 Report Posted February 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: To equate this to a FN's barricade like we saw in Caledonia, is disingenuous. Compared to the way the phrases "stand-your-ground" or "home-invasion" are bandied about ? If you say so. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Michael Hardner Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 6 hours ago, ?Impact said: I am answering very clearly: I would not plan for violence. But would you shoot someone who was running away is the question. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Hal 9000 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Compared to the way the phrases "stand-your-ground" or "home-invasion" are bandied about ? If you say so. Exactly, so when you stretch things to the absurd, it makes reasonable conversation impossible. You're confusing "home invasion" to a taking a claim on something that a person believes is rightfully theirs - but isn't. Next you're gonna claim that these punks were simply taking what should rightfully be theirs. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Guest Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 9 hours ago, eyeball said: Can you see who or what Mike was mocking? No, I'm fairly dense when it comes to stuff like that. Of course, I don't spend any time on it. Quote
Guest Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: But would you shoot someone who was running away is the question. What have they got? Quote
eyeball Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said: Exactly, so when you stretch things to the absurd, it makes reasonable conversation impossible. You're confusing "home invasion" to a taking a claim on something that a person believes is rightfully theirs - but isn't. Next you're gonna claim that these punks were simply taking what should rightfully be theirs. Why would I say that? It sounds to me like these guys should have known better than to do what they did and the consequences are what they are. If the case exposed problems with jury selection and the potential that has to undermine justice then we should try to do better. If it also exposed an undercurrent of racist resentment towards natives then we should try to do batter there too. I certainly think native people deserve better treatment than they've received in the often disgusting debate that many Canadians have indulged in. I'm commenting on the absurd commentary that has attended this trial, like claims to rights that don't exist. I think it's fair to say the people likeliest to claim or desire a right to shoot trespassers also take a pretty dim view towards native claims and even natives in general given the racist tone to a good deal of the commentary out there. That said, I'm left wondering why these dimwits would be surprised if militant natives took up the same absurd claim they do. The principle would most definitely be the same but whether it's right or wrong is besides that point, the absurdity saw to that long before I came along and underscored it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 30 minutes ago, bcsapper said: No, I'm fairly dense when it comes to stuff like that. Of course, I don't spend any time on it. Well, even people who do spend time on it seem pretty dense but you do know what they say about ignorance and excuses don't you? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hal 9000 Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: Why would I say that? It sounds to me like these guys should have known better than to do what they did and the consequences are what they are. If the case exposed problems with jury selection and the potential that has to undermine justice then we should try to do better. If it also exposed an undercurrent of racist resentment towards natives then we should try to do batter there too. I certainly think native people deserve better treatment than they've received in the often disgusting debate that many Canadians have indulged in. I'm commenting on the absurd commentary that has attended this trial, like claims to rights that don't exist. I think it's fair to say the people likeliest to claim or desire a right to shoot trespassers also take a pretty dim view towards native claims and even natives in general given the racist tone to a good deal of the commentary out there. That said, I'm left wondering why these dimwits would be surprised if militant natives took up the same absurd claim they do. The principle would most definitely be the same but whether it's right or wrong is besides that point, the absurdity saw to that long before I came along and underscored it. Maybe if the potential native jurors didn't sit and talk about how they wanted to find the dude guilty before the trial began, they would've been chose for the jury. BTW - I know it's been said, but if a group of white kids did what what done, the same outcome would've happened. The only difference is, we never would've heard about it. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Guest Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, eyeball said: Well, even people who do spend time on it seem pretty dense but you do know what they say about ignorance and excuses don't you? If you're ignorant, you're excused? Quote
eyeball Posted February 14, 2018 Report Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, bcsapper said: If you're ignorant, you're excused? No, I'm afraid not. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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