Omni Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Israel has never started any of the various wars. Your history is fake. Sort of like trump's news is fake? 1
GostHacked Posted January 27, 2018 Report Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/26/2018 at 12:59 PM, DogOnPorch said: This from the guy who wanted all those damn Jew settlers out of the Gaza Strip... Coming from the guy who wants to kick out all the Palestinians. And again, facts are facts East Jerusalem is not within Israel's internationally recognized borders. It's interesting seeing the talk back from you and Rue. Are some facts more relevant to the two of you than others? What's so hard to inderstand about it? Please more non-answers will more than suffice again. 2
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 8 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to hope Israel gets destroyed and its citizens slaughtered. Me no care. It's not hope it's simply stating the inevitability. I care about the little kids that will be caught up in it all but that should really go without saying. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
marcus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Israel need only look to other fine international examples for land and resource stewardship over "indigenous" people...perhaps all that is lacking are "Secure Certificate of Palestinian Status" cards, like they have in Canada (four different types). Your comparison is ridiculous. Can a first nation in Canada purchase a property a non-first nation can? Absolutely. Can a Palestinian in Israel purchase a property a Jew in Israel can? No. -- Can a first nation marry a person from outside of Canada and sponsor them to come into Canada just like a Canadian? Absolutely Can a Palestinian in Israel marry a person from outside of Israel and bring them into Israel like a Jew in Israel can? No. -- The list goes on. Why do you try so hard to push for a comparison when it's not there? Edited January 28, 2018 by marcus 1 "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, marcus said: ...The list goes on. Why do you try so hard to push for a comparison when it's not there? Because the parallels are obvious, except for the much longer/larger scale for domination, subjugation, incarceration, and land theft in Canada. For every difference you claim, I can find two historical and/or present day similarities between Israel and Canada/USA/AUS (take your pick) for "aboriginals". Specifically in the case of capital city Jerusalem, parts of Ottawa are "settlements" on unceded native land and have been for more than 100 years. The main point of all this is to demonstrate that you and others here consistently hold the State of Israel to a different standard. Why ? Edited January 28, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 23 hours ago, marcus said: Yes, racist. Very racist. Israel is a systemic racist country with laws against Palestinians. But Palestinians aren't a race,. Quote 1) Citizenship laws - Palestinians are not allowed to have their families immigrate to Israel. So what? Israel is in a unique position as a Jewish homeland surrounded by violently hostile Muslims. It needs to control the number of Muslims crossing it's borders. Quote 2) Civil Rights - Palestinians are discriminated against regularly. Given the security situation that's inevitable Look, whatever your complaints about Israel, which I grant is imperfect by western standards, it's twice as bad among the Arabs and Palestinians and you don't give a damn about that. By the standards of the nations around it Israel is a paragon of virtue, freedom, equality and tolerance. Edited January 28, 2018 by Argus 1 "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 44 minutes ago, Argus said: So what? Israel is in a unique position as a Jewish homeland surrounded by violently hostile Muslims. It needs to control the number of Muslims crossing it's borders. Not a lot of Muslim countries accepting Jews and their extended families. I'd hazard zero. 1 Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Because the parallels are obvious, except for the much longer/larger scale for domination, subjugation, incarceration, and land theft in Canada. For every difference you claim, I can find two historical and/or present day similarities between Israel and Canada/USA/AUS (take your pick) for "aboriginals". Specifically in the case of capital city Jerusalem, parts of Ottawa are "settlements" on unceded native land and have been for more than 100 years. The main point of all this is to demonstrate that you and others here consistently hold the State of Israel to a different standard. Why ? Yep, every other wrong makes it all a-okay. Whataboutism...the most enduring doctrine of them all. 1 A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 51 minutes ago, eyeball said: Yep, every other wrong makes it all a-okay. Indeed...I bet that Israel can even throw in some crocodile tears apologies too...just like Canada. "We're sooooooooooo sorry !! " 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Indeed...I bet that Israel can even throw in some crocodile tears apologies too...just like Canada. "We're sooooooooooo sorry !! " Crocodile tears you say? They are a plenty. 1 "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 Both Israelis and Palestinians have long enlisted the Canadian/American occupation and theft narrative for "aboriginal" land and resources: Quote ...Canadian aboriginals are also known as First Nations. And while solidarity between Palestinians and First Nations has existed for decades, says Toronto-based Canadian native poet and activist Lee Maracle, Idle No More has crystallized the relationship. The links between peoples are clearer, she says. Were both colonized. Theyre after our resources in the North, she says, citing the controversial tar sands bitumen extraction projects in Alberta, and land and resources in the Middle East. ...AFN's Israel visit underscored a sort of battle of dueling narratives, with right-wing Zionist groups trying to claim kinship with First Nations on the grounds that both were aboriginal peoples. Furthermore, the indigenous issue in North America has been used by former Israeli prime ministers like Ariel Sharon to justify occupation and settlements in Palestine – throwing it in the face of those who criticized Israeli treatment of Palestinians. https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-canadian-natives-palestinians-rally-for-colonized-1.5227384 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Both Israelis and Palestinians have long enlisted the Canadian/American occupation and theft narrative for "aboriginal" land and resources: Yes well, we've also seen how far your ilk isn't willing to flog this stupid horse when you steer away from any mention of more recent narratives around settling indigenous and colonizer issues like Truth and Reconciliation processes. Then its back to whataboutism and skipping thru history whilst pointing out past assholes to justify being assholes in the present. 1 A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
marcus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Both Israelis and Palestinians have long enlisted the Canadian/American occupation and theft narrative for "aboriginal" land and resources: Once again, when it comes to responding to examples of comparisons, you decided not to respond. One last time: Can a first nation in Canada purchase a property a non-first nation can? Absolutely. Can a Palestinian in Israel purchase a property a Jew in Israel can? No. -- Can a first nation marry a person from outside of Canada and sponsor them to come into Canada just like a Canadian? Absolutely Can a Palestinian in Israel marry a person from outside of Israel and bring them into Israel like a Jew in Israel can? No. -- 1 "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, eyeball said: Yes well, we've also seen how far your ilk isn't willing to flog this stupid horse when you steer away from any mention of more recent narratives around settling indigenous and colonizer issues like Truth and Reconciliation processes. "Settling" my ass...your federal and provincial governments have continued to ignore SCC land and resource claims rulings, maintaining control to an extent that Israel can only dream of. "Truth and Reconciliation" means that Canada will never relinquish control of what really matters....land and resources. Neither should/would Israel. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2014/oct/21/the-indigenous-land-rights-ruling-that-could-transform-canada 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
marcus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Argus said: But Palestinians aren't a race,. You want to be taken seriously, stop repeating comments like that. Jews are not a race. Does that mean the Nazis were not racist? 4 hours ago, Argus said: So what? Israel is in a unique position as a Jewish homeland surrounded by violently hostile Muslims. It needs to control the number of Muslims crossing it's borders. Are you giving a pass to racism and discrimination? 4 hours ago, Argus said: Given the security situation that's inevitable Settlements and the aggression has NOTHING to do with security. This is another bullshit comment made which makes absolutely no sense when you look at the actions that are taken. 4 hours ago, Argus said: Look, whatever your complaints about Israel, which I grant is imperfect by western standards, it's twice as bad among the Arabs and Palestinians and you don't give a damn about that. By the standards of the nations around it Israel is a paragon of virtue, freedom, equality and tolerance. Look, example after example is given to you about Israel's racist and discriminatory behaviour and you don't have the integrity to accept and admit that it happens. You continuously try to brush it aside by using "whataboutism". 1 "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, marcus said: Once again, when it comes to responding to examples of comparisons, you decided not to respond. One last time: Can a non-native marry and own property on reserves without band approval ? Nope Do First Nations have to carry status identification cards to qualify for treaty rights? Yep Do First Nations bands have sovereign state rights for passports and travel ? Nope Do First Nations have legal title to all unceded land ? Nope Edited January 28, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: "Settling" my ass...your federal and provincial governments have continued to ignore SCC land and resource claims rulings, maintaining control to an extent that Israel can only dream of. "Truth and Reconciliation" means that Canada will never relinquish control of what really matters....land and resources. Neither should/would Israel. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2014/oct/21/the-indigenous-land-rights-ruling-that-could-transform-canada Except you're acting as if if the process is finished when its not. Its just really getting under way. You also appear to be utterly or deliberately ignorant of more recent treaties and settlements unfolding in BC and Northern Canada that would scare the bejeezus out of Israel not to mention many other colonizers around the planet. Of course Canada is resisting but fortunately we have a Charter and SCC...something else that scares the bejeezus out of many people. Edited January 28, 2018 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Argus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, marcus said: You want to be taken seriously, stop repeating comments like that. Jews are not a race. Does that mean the Nazis were not racist? Uh, yes. None of them are races. 3 minutes ago, marcus said: Are you giving a pass to racism and discrimination? Settlements and the aggression has NOTHING to do with security. This is another bullshit comment made which makes absolutely no sense when you look at the actions that are taken. We weren't talking about settlements, which I disapprove of, btw. 3 minutes ago, marcus said: Look, example after example is given to you about Israel's racist and discriminatory behaviour and you don't have the integrity to accept and admit that it happens. You continuously try to brush it aside by using "whataboutism". Yes, it's called context, something you obstinately refuse to admit into any discussion on the two sides involved. How about this then: Your side is massively worse in every conceivable way in terms of racism, sexism, homophobia, bigotry, violation of human rights, torture, false imprisonment, exta-judicial execution and corruption than the Israelis. So suppose you justify being on that side? 1 "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, eyeball said: Except you're acting as if if the process is finished when its not. Its just really getting under way. You also appear to be utterly or deliberately ignorant of more recent treaties and settlements unfolding in BC and Northern Canada that would scare the bejeezus out of Israel not to mention many other colonizers around the planet. Just getting started ? After more than 150 years ? You must be joking. How long do you think your federal and provincial governments will continue to drag this out, punctuated by more lame ass apologies and cents on the dollar "settlements" compared to guilt ridden windfalls for convicted war criminals (e.g. Omar Khadr) ? Israel will continue to exercise control over territory and resources (including Jerusalem) just as Canada has done for over 150 years. Edited January 28, 2018 by bush_cheney2004 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Just getting started ? After more than 150 years ? You must be joking. Compared to the 4000 year old process unfolding in the Middle East? If you say so. Quote How long do you think your federal and provincial governments will continue to drag this out, punctuated by more lame ass apologies and cents on the dollar "settlements" compared to guilt ridden windfalls for convicted war criminals (e.g. Omar Khadr) ? It'll likely drag it out for 1000's of years so long as so many other shiny beacons around it are so willing to continue acting like complete assholes. Quote Israel will continue to exercise control over territory and resources (including Jerusalem) just as Canada has continued has done for over 150 years. No, Israel will only be able to exercise its control so long as the patron empire supporting it doesn't collapse which it will and long long before 4000 years have passed. 1 A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Compared to the 4000 year old process unfolding in the Middle East? If you say so. It'll likely drag it out for 1000's of years so long as so many other shiny beacons around it are so willing to continue acting like complete assholes. No, Israel will only be able to exercise its control so long as the patron empire supporting it doesn't collapse which it will and long long before 4000 years have passed. Agreed...and identical to Canada's patron empire that set things up so nicely in North America...even got to keep the monarchy ! Is that why it's called "British Columbia" ? 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Agreed...and identical to Canada's patron empire that set things up so nicely in North America...even got to keep the monarchy ! Is that why it's called "British Columbia" ? No apparently it was called that to rub your empires nose in it. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
marcus Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, Argus said: Uh, yes. None of them are races. What? The Nazis were not racists? "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
eyeball Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, marcus said: What? The Nazis were not racists? Apparently they were merely concerned, about values and such. Edited January 28, 2018 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 28, 2018 Report Posted January 28, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: No apparently it was called that to rub your empires nose in it. Israel should follows this Canadian tradition...renaming occupied and "settled" territory. Israel has no imperial colonist heritage, so the name "Victoria" is out. 1 Economics trumps Virtue.
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