terrorist hits Manhattan

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

But it's interesting that the term 'terrorism' was not applied to the Las Vegas shooter but instantly applied to someone who has a middle eastern name. 

It's not that interesting.  Las Vegas wasn't, and Manhattan was. 

At least, I assume Las Vegas wasn't.  Which group was he representing if it was?

 

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

But it's interesting that the term 'terrorism' was not applied to the Las Vegas shooter but instantly applied to someone who has a middle eastern name. 

Shouting Allahu akbhar is a definite sign.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Sooo, Islamic terrorism isn't a problem? That seems to be what you're saying. Nothing to see here. Islam is the religion of peace. Look over there, a squirrel! 

If you read my post again, I framed the problem differently than your encapsulation.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, cannuck said:

Yes, the difference is that the Vegas terrorist was doing things diametrically opposed to the teachings of the society from which he came. 

That's one difference.  The other was the effectiveness of his mission, and the fact that an elderly white guy with money can amass whatever arms he would like to.  No suspicions would be raised.

[Michael Hardner]

20 hours ago, cannuck said:

...and the left-leaning media criticize Trump for identifying the problem as a Muslim problem.

You missed my post.  The Muslims lost 59-8.

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, cannuck said:

It is a problem that can easily be dealt with by terminating immigration and expelling all who have associated with radical elements or aided, assisted or covered up for them in any way.

Immigration, tourism, and business travel.  BTW I think the majority of those killed were foreign nationals from what I have read.  If we are elevating the importance of murders because they're done by foreigners, and especially Muslims should we be lowering the importance if they target foreigners ?  Or Muslims ?

 

We had 6 Muslims killed here in Canada also.   

 

If we're going to point the finger at minorities (because it feels good, but ostensibly because it's logical) then I am going to push that fallacious accounting to its breaking point.

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Immigration, tourism, and business travel.  BTW I think the majority of those killed were foreign nationals from what I have read.  If we are elevating the importance of murders because they're done by foreigners, and especially Muslims should we be lowering the importance if they target foreigners ?  Or Muslims ?

 

We had 6 Muslims killed here in Canada also.   

 

If we're going to point the finger at minorities (because it feels good, but ostensibly because it's logical) then I am going to push that fallacious accounting to its breaking point.

 

What would you suggest?  Misdemeanor charges and a news blackout?

[bush_cheney2004]

The radical Muslim terrorism "score" against thousands of Americans and other nationals is still quite in their favour if that be the game played here. 

[Michael Hardner]

18 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What would you suggest?  Misdemeanor charges and a news blackout?

No, I think that they should change them with a crime.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's one difference.  The other was the effectiveness of his mission, and the fact that an elderly white guy with money can amass whatever arms he would like to.  No suspicions would be raised.

Well American gun nuts might not notice but there was another difference. This guy, in the land of the open carry permits and unlimited weaponry, was able to amass all these firearms, even those 'bumper' stocks that the Republicans have now decided to embrace as every bit as American as apple pie and God. Meanwhile, the terrorist who hit New York had to make do with a rental truck and a couple of pellet guns, much like the guy in Edmonton had to make do with a knife and the guy who invaded parliament hill had a single shot repeater and the guys on London Bridge had knives.

The lesson I take is if you're a terrorist and want to kill a lot of Americans, go to an open carry state like Nevada.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, I think that they should change them with a crime.

Can we still talk about it?  Without being accused of having nefarious ulterior motives?

[eyeball]

9 hours ago, cannuck said:

that is a red herring.  The only reason it can even be mentioned is due to the idiotic notion that Islamic immigrants will assimilate and just fit right in.  

What?  The reason for mentioning blowback is that it's a fact.  The racist nativism that targets immigrants is one of the more ferociously egregious side-effects now infecting our society - a cancerous form of self inflicted blowback.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

The lesson I take is if you're a terrorist and want to kill a lot of Americans, go to an open carry state like Nevada.

Maybe.  I think he would have been noticed.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Can we still talk about it?  Without being accused of having nefarious ulterior motives?

You should ask people who accuse you of having ulterior motives.  I don't think you have ulterior motives.  Moving on.

[Michael Hardner]

16 hours ago, cannuck said:

The only reason it can even be mentioned is due to the idiotic notion that Islamic immigrants will assimilate and just fit right in.  

Since you didn't provide a cite, I will provide one that nullifies your assumption in the hope that you provide one.  (And I'm mainly providing this cite to encourage discussion hygiene in general.)

 

American Muslims are growing more religiously and socially liberal, with the number who say society should accept homosexuality nearly doubling during the past decade, according to a major new survey.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/26/us/pew-muslim-american-survey/index.html

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

The racist nativism that targets immigrants is one of the more ferociously egregious side-effects now infecting our society - a cancerous form of self inflicted blowback.

And it's failing.  Those who complain and enfrighten themselves most about immigrants rarely encounter one.  They live in the empty spaces between the coasts with no foreigners, no jobs, and no risk.  A different world.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And it's failing.  Those who complain and enfrighten themselves most about immigrants rarely encounter one.  They live in the empty spaces between the coasts with no foreigners, no jobs, and no risk.  A different world.

And @eyeball that's significant.  70 years ago or so we imprisoned Japanese people so there's progress in recognizing that individuals do not act according to monolithic group rules.  And if anybody wants to dispute the analogy here, please start a new thread thanks.

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

And it's failing.  Those who complain and enfrighten themselves most about immigrants rarely encounter one.  They live in the empty spaces between the coasts with no foreigners, no jobs, and no risk.  A different world.

 

Sounds more like Canada.....plenty of immigrants to be found in many non-coastal states...legal and illegal....even Muslims.

Edited November 2, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sounds more like Canada.....plenty of immigrants to be found in many non-coastal states...legal and illegal....even Muslims.

Yes, both countries follow the pattern.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You should ask people who accuse you of having ulterior motives.  I don't think you have ulterior motives.  Moving on.

That's so sweet...

 

[Altai]

The attacker is a Turk and he have been caught alive, interesting !!! US polices are famous with randomly killing any person with suspicious behaviors, so I dont even imagine someone with a gun, he must have been killed but he is not. 
 

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And it's failing.  Those who complain and enfrighten themselves most about immigrants rarely encounter one.  They live in the empty spaces between the coasts with no foreigners, no jobs, and no risk.  A different world.

That's crap. I spent twenty years in a riding with the highest concentration of Muslims in Canada and I pay more in taxes than you make. Don't push your snotty Toronto centric view of the country on me.  It might be that no one you know complains about immigrants, but then,  you wouldn't have anything willingly to do with anyone who didn't adore immigration to begin with. They'd never get into your wine and cheese parties.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

That's crap. I spent twenty years in a riding with the highest concentration of Muslims in Canada and I pay more in taxes than you make. Don't push your snotty Toronto centric view of the country on me. 

You are in the minority, pun attended.  PS You are also Toronto centric.

 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

1) It might be that no one you know complains about immigrants, but then,  you wouldn't have anything willingly to do with anyone who didn't adore immigration to begin with.
2) They'd never get into your wine and cheese parties.

1) From my time as mod, I recall the loudest and most vile complainers were from B**tf***k-Nowhereton which still boggles my mind.  I don't 'adore' immigration anymore than you do, so you lose this battle on a false assumption.

2) That's correct, we serve wine at faculty parties to keep out Muslims.  Is that it ?  Not sure.  I am white trash, the cheese I eat is of the Whiz variety, chiefly.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are in the minority, pun attended.  PS You are also Toronto centric.

I'm from Ottawa. The polls show that there is a vast difference between what the pols and media think on immigration and what ordinary Canadians think on immigration. The only  reason immigration has the support it has (outside the progressive community) is because every media outlet and every political party blankets us with soothing information about how immigration helps our economy and how we need it to combat our aging workforce. And because the costs are NEVER discussed or disclosed by government. Even then far more Canadians believe we need to cut immigration than increase it.

 

[taxme]

On 11/1/2017 at 3:48 AM, Michael Hardner said:

The tally for October is old white guys 59, NY muslims 8.  Still seems like a landslide for the home team.  When the number of murders by immigrants starts to approach those of natural-borns then you might admit a problem there.

I am sure glad that I do not come from or live in Toronto. The old white guys are now reaping what they have sown. There appears to be something wrong with their way of thinking. Liberalism really has a complete hold on their just about fried brains. Just saying.